Kohl/Arena Discussion Page 71 - Study Released

[Badgerlander]

Kind of funny that Walker voted for the Miller Park tax in 1996, but is against a new Bucks Arena.

Funny? We live in a far different world now then we did in 1996...no politician is going to say they would put public funds for a new arena, that is instant death...more people watch WIAA girls basketball then the Bucks..we have a major job problem in this state if you haven't noticed.

Instant death like George Petak? It's really not so different. Sure the 90s look good now economywise, but in the 90s we were all wishing we were back in the 80s. I think it's funny because we may have a better shot at a new arena with Tom Barrett then with Walker which seems backwards to me. I dunno, but I DESPISE Politics and Politicians.

[trwi7]

I love the JSOnline comments section.

the bucks can't fill the venue they have. i'm still paying for a sports stadium; i can't afford to pay for another one.

I can't afford that extra $1 for every $100 I spend!

[WEFFPIM]

So I rarely post on any message board, ever, but this issue pulled me out. First, the Bradley Center would absolutely need to go. A city the size of Milwaukee cannot support two arenas of that size, and in the end they would cannibalize each other when it comes to other events that would come to town (concerts, monster truck rallies, what have you). U.S. Cellular is in a different class of arenas, and doesn't really compete with Bradley Center or New Arena for most of these things. It is also a nice spillover arena for the city to have if New Arena is in use for something else, and for second tier tenants like the Wave. That being said, if UWM gets their new arena the dynamic would shift again and the future of the Cell would have to be reconsidered.

I think the biggest hurdle here will be convincing people that "public money" is not synonymous with "tax increase." It may mean tax increase, but it doesn't have to. I think with some creative thinking this can be done with no tax money coming from private citizens. The easiest way to do this is to make sure the New Arena is part of the Wisconsin Center District, you then use a ticket surcharge on any event in one of the District buildings to help pay for New Arena which at $4/ticket with only Bucks and Marquette games figured in that is between $4-$5million/year, add in Admirals, concerts and other events and you're probably looking at $6-7million at New Arena alone. Add a $2 fee on shows and events at the Theater and U.S. Cellular arena you're probably at $7-8 million a year. You then take the state income tax that will come from players salaries (tax money that the state would lose if the Bucks weren't here anyway) as well as the income tax from top personnel of the team and you have a good chunk of needed "public money" without ever raising taxes on individuals. A few more creative solutions could be had, but those are two I heard of before and thought of when thinking this through. I think $150 million in public money can get this done which is about half of what Miller Park cost, so I think it's doable, but still a long shot.

Chicago has an amusement tax tacked on to all of their event tickets and concessions that help pay for renovations and the like. The Cubs are trying to use it to do full-scale Wrigley renovations.

[jeremyd236]

It's completely different. We were a booming economy in the 90s. Not to mention it'd be completely hypocritical and awful for Walker to support spending on the Bucks when he's made drastic spending cuts to more important areas (Education).

[Badgerlander]

Because the Cell is an armpit

So you blow up the BC and renovate the Cell. It'll be cheaper than maintaining an arena the primary tenants only use half of. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned UWM looking at costs for renovating the Cell already. They may not do anything with it since they want their own building, but if someone's doing the legwork for you, why wouldn't that be an option?

There's is no logical reason to keep the Bradley Center in tact if a new building with similar capacity is being built, ESPECIALLY is it's right next door.

The Cell WAS renovated in 1998, and it's still an armpit. Have you been in it recently? I hadn't been in there since 1997 and then I went to a Panthers/Badgers game a few years ago and I was amazed at how bad it is.

[xTitan]

Instant death like George Petak? It's really not so different. Sure the 90s look good now economywise, but in the 90s we were all wishing we were back in the 80s. I think it's funny because we may have a better shot at a new arena with Tom Barrett then with Walker which seems backwards to me. I dunno, but I DESPISE Politics and Politicians.

I truly hope barrett comes out before this recall election and tells the fine citizens of Wisconsin he is 100% for using public money to fund a new arena for Herb Kohl and the Milwaukee Bucks...nothing would make me happier. Then again shouldn't the mayor of Milwaukee already been heard on this? I believe Kevin johnson is driving the attempt at a new arena in Sacramento, perhaps it is time for the great Tom Barrett to be heard on this subject, for some reason I have serious doubts the local rag or TV stations will even attempt to get a response from Barrett on this.

[paulpressey25]

Barrett never talks but MJS just got a quote out of his office. Below he's offering public help if the private sector steps up.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/bucks/ko ... 85605.html

Jodie Tabak, Mayor Tom Barrett's spokeswoman, said that, given the mayor's "close and personal relationship with Kohl, I'm sure there will be a discussion in the near future. The senator is aware of the Mayor's position to date: if there is to be a new arena , the private sector and the business community need to step up. City taxpayers can't do this alone."

[WEFFPIM]

Because the Cell is an armpit

So you blow up the BC and renovate the Cell. It'll be cheaper than maintaining an arena the primary tenants only use half of. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned UWM looking at costs for renovating the Cell already. They may not do anything with it since they want their own building, but if someone's doing the legwork for you, why wouldn't that be an option?

There's is no logical reason to keep the Bradley Center in tact if a new building with similar capacity is being built, ESPECIALLY is it's right next door.

The Cell WAS renovated in 1998, and it's still an armpit. Have you been in it recently? I hadn't been in there since 1997 and then I went to a Panthers/Badgers game a few years ago and I was amazed at how bad it is.

You are still drastically missing the point. The point is in another zip code. You can address the Cell being a dump. You CAN'T address a 35-year-old building the same size as a brand new one being used for a minor league hockey team that averages 6200 fans a game and an arena football team no one knows exists.

If you're a touring show, would you go to an 18,000 seat dump of a building, or an 18,000 state-of-the-art building?

This isn't even a debate, frankly.

[trwi7]

What would be the point of having two 18,000 seat arenas in this city when one of them is used for a minor league hockey team that doesn't open the upper deck?

Also, haters gonna hate. The Admirals had one less sellout than the Bucks this year.

[Badgerlander]

It would be cheaper to rip 4,000 seats out of the BC then to update the Cell

[trwi7]

It would be cheaper to rip 4,000 seats out of the BC then to update the Cell

If a new arena is built in Park East it would be best to tear down the BC and use the BC site as parking or retail or something. Anything that is currently at the BC would just go to the new arena, maybe the Mustangs are the exception but who knows how much longer they can even stay in business and there would still be the Cell for them.

[WEFFPIM]

It would be cheaper to rip 4,000 seats out of the BC then to update the Cell

First off, there's roughly 10,000 seats in the upper deck. And what do you do with the concourse? You'll have to take out all the wiring, plumbing, etc. since it'll just be wasted up there.

[Badgerlander]

if I'm reading the numbers correctly the Cell was operated at a $16million loss in 2005, up $8mil from 2004.

[WEFFPIM]

if I'm reading the numbers correctly the Cell was operated at a $16million loss in 2005, up $8mil from 2004.

You're needing a GPS to get to the point.

[Badgerlander]

Ok sorry, I look at things from a construction/engineering background. I have no idea what the original design life of the MECCA was supposed to be but it will reach a point where the superstructure will start to fail and it'll be cheaper to bulldoze it then to try to repair it because nobody will be able to determine with any certainty if its going to start crumbling tomorrow or 10 years from now. Thats the reason the Hoan bridge is going to be torn down and all the Marquette interchange was torn down and replaced. They did the best that they could with what they had when they updated it but some of the plumbing fixes that they did are laughable. If I remember correctly the arena was supposed to be torn down when they did the second half of the Midwest Express convention center that never happened. The cost of operating the Cell will probably start to surpass the BC if it hasn't already.

[paulpressey25]

Here is the audio from the entire thing.

http://podcast.sportsradio1250.com/wssp2/3456075.mp3

Let's put the arena comments in this thread and the basketball comments in the other thread.

Listening to Kohl talk, I did not get a lot of confidence, although his heart is in the right place.

[BuckPack]

Instant death like George Petak? It's really not so different. Sure the 90s look good now economywise, but in the 90s we were all wishing we were back in the 80s. I think it's funny because we may have a better shot at a new arena with Tom Barrett then with Walker which seems backwards to me. I dunno, but I DESPISE Politics and Politicians.

I truly hope barrett comes out before this recall election and tells the fine citizens of Wisconsin he is 100% for using public money to fund a new arena for Herb Kohl and the Milwaukee Bucks...nothing would make me happier. Then again shouldn't the mayor of Milwaukee already been heard on this? I believe Kevin johnson is driving the attempt at a new arena in Sacramento, perhaps it is time for the great Tom Barrett to be heard on this subject, for some reason I have serious doubts the local rag or TV stations will even attempt to get a response from Barrett on this.

This. Barrett knew his comment in the paper was wishy/washy enough that he could be "defending taxpayers" while at the same time "supporting Kohl's unprecedented and generous contribution." When push comes to shove, you can be damn sure that Barrett wouldn't answer any questions about his specific plan to generate public/taxpayer funding of the new arena because he damn well knows it's not happening and probably because he doesn't even have a plan. He's been nothing like KJ or even Jindal down in LA (yes, I know Jindal is the governor).

Kohl/Barrett/Marotta are all cut from the same political cloth--and the latter two sure as hell need Kohl to fulfill their own personal ambitions--you can be damned sure that even if Barrett were to become Governor, the toxic political/economic environment will not allow for any public financing. "Hey Wisconsin companies/individuals, I'm going to raise taxes on you to balance the state's budget and I'm also going to support an additional tax to raise public financing for a new Bucks stadium." If you think that's going to work, I've got a great deal on ocean front land in Central Wisconsin for sale that I think you'd love...As for Walker, why would he scratch Kohl's back when Kohl and the Barrett/Marotta duo are working to recall him? Not surprised he had no comment and not surprised that he's not supporting any of that right now. He's got bigger fish to fry than funding a new arena for Herb Kohl.

Until the political/economic climate starts to return to normalcy/improve in WI, there is no chance this goes anywhere unless Kohl ponies up the cash himself and/or gets cheap debt from the NBA (which he will) and other means of private financing. Nice to see Kohl talk about this publicly, but until he commits to a very, very large figure, I won't be holding my breath.

[El Duderino]

Instant death like George Petak? It's really not so different. Sure the 90s look good now economywise, but in the 90s we were all wishing we were back in the 80s. I think it's funny because we may have a better shot at a new arena with Tom Barrett then with Walker which seems backwards to me. I dunno, but I DESPISE Politics and Politicians.

I truly hope barrett comes out before this recall election and tells the fine citizens of Wisconsin he is 100% for using public money to fund a new arena for Herb Kohl and the Milwaukee Bucks...nothing would make me happier. Then again shouldn't the mayor of Milwaukee already been heard on this? I believe Kevin johnson is driving the attempt at a new arena in Sacramento, perhaps it is time for the great Tom Barrett to be heard on this subject, for some reason I have serious doubts the local rag or TV stations will even attempt to get a response from Barrett on this.

Until the political/economic climate starts to return to normalcy/improve in WI, there is no chance this goes anywhere unless Kohl ponies up the cash himself and/or gets cheap debt from the NBA (which he will) and other means of private financing. Nice to see Kohl talk about this publicly, but until he commits to a very, very large figure, I won't be holding my breath.

This isn't just a Bucks/Milwaukee/Wisconsin issue though. The days of professional sports teams getting publicly financed stadiums/arenas are mostly over. These professional leagues were lucky to cash in on so many stadiums/arenas in the 90's while the economy was thriving, but now it''s become a huge struggle in most cases for any teams looking for a handout from taxpayers as governments are being forced to slash other public services left and right.

So even if the Bucks weren't such a poorly run franchise over the last two decades, which has resulted in massive apathy, getting public dollars dollars would be a near impossible sell given the economic climate the country and state currently finds itself in. Same for most other cities and states in America.

Hell, just look at what the Vikings are going through in trying to get a new stadium and we are talking about a long standing NFL franchise. Even the Packers stadium referendum barely passed and the Packers own the hearts of Wisconsin residents. That referendum also took place pre-recession. It might fail if tried today and it's the Packers, not the Bucks.

[bullox]

Meanwhile, Chinese investors ok financial backing of a sports arena just south of Vegas, in Henderson. It's going forward without a professional team tied to it.



http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/ap ... g-hurdles/

With financing in place, a proposed indoor arena in Henderson is gaining momentum, and construction could begin as early as October, developer Chris Milam told the city council Tuesday night.

Plans for the multibillion-dollar Las Vegas National Sports Complex, which could eventually comprise four stadiums on 485 acres of federally owned land near the M Resort and Interstate 15 in Henderson, were unveiled in September.

Milam, who is leading the effort, said a $650 million construction loan needed to build the first stadium — a 17,500 seat enclosed arena that would host events and possibly a professional basketball franchise — was approved last week by the investment committee of China Security & Surveillance Technology Inc., a company based in Shenzhen, China.

[WiscoKing13]

Maybe twirl can answer this, but what are the chances we could somehow secure a hockey franchise.

Kohl/MU alum/UWM throwing money at it for a place to play and to become a real D1 basketball program/Plus an NHL franchise, one would think there enough money there for a an arena.