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Kohl/Arena Discussion Page 71 - Study Released

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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#61 » by Thunder Muscle » Fri May 4, 2012 8:15 pm

DocHoliday wrote:
WEFFPIM wrote:Having the Admirals be the primary tenant of the Bradley Center would be a horrendous business decision.

Take a look at the layouts for the Spurs and Rockets buildings. They both have ice rinks underneath the court. You don't necessarily need the octagon the BC is or the oval a place like the United Center is.


So you want to keep a 62 year old arena over a 24 year old arena because it holds 4,000 less people?


Sure, the heating bills will be cheaper. :)

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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#62 » by Badgerlander » Fri May 4, 2012 8:21 pm

Kind of funny that Walker voted for the Miller Park tax in 1996, but is against a new Bucks Arena.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#63 » by VooDoo7 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:22 pm

Screw Kohl.

Talk is cheap.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#64 » by paulpressey25 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:24 pm

El Duderino wrote:
The economy during the Miller Park debate and today are completely different worlds. Absolutely no chance could Miller Park get passed and paid for by taxpayers with government in such tight financial situations.


I agree that the economy factor is a big one and is the primary headwind. However there are two potential positives.

a) The Brewers success under new ownership with Miller Park. We'll never convince Joe Lunchpail in Wauwatosa to pay for a Bucks arena under any circumstances. But there are enough business leaders and politicians who will see the Miller Park thing as nothing less than a phenomenal outcome. If Kohl does this in conjunction with new ownership, there is a concrete example of it working. And bringing money to the region.

b) This thread by its nature will have some political overtones, so let's talk about them, but try to keep them above board and respectful. In that regard, the city of Milwaukee is facing some major challenges right now as it relates to economic development. I would not underestimate the desire of politicians here to at least be willing to look hard at $400 million dollar project that will employ people and help keep downtown from imploding. That's why I think the dollar amount Kohl would be willing to commit as being the key factor here. If the number he's willing to commit is significant, it will force a serious consideration of things.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#65 » by jokeboy86 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:27 pm

I've always wondered does Marquette really care if a new arena is built. I would imagine that they would of course play in a new arena if it were built but they seem like they're just fine with the BC. And if push comes to shove couldn't Marquette just build their own basketball facility? I don't know where they would put it but it seems like Marquette has plenty of money with all the recent buildings they've built in the last couple of years.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#66 » by Badgerlander » Fri May 4, 2012 8:37 pm

I think a new building and of course an NBA franchise in Milwaukee can only help MU recruiting.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#67 » by paulpressey25 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:37 pm

A new MU arena would cost at least $150 million to be a relevant building. They don't have that type of money.

But that's another angle to all this that needs to be played. Somewhere in this discussion will be some big MU guys in the business and political community. MU won't pay for a new Bucks arena, but they might step up to offer political or other support for it. A top tier basketball palace with all the amenities helps MU.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#68 » by WEFFPIM » Fri May 4, 2012 8:37 pm

DocHoliday wrote:
WEFFPIM wrote:Having the Admirals be the primary tenant of the Bradley Center would be a horrendous business decision.

Take a look at the layouts for the Spurs and Rockets buildings. They both have ice rinks underneath the court. You don't necessarily need the octagon the BC is or the oval a place like the United Center is.


So you want to keep a 62 year old arena over a 24 year old arena because it holds 4,000 less people?


I'd rather keep one smaller capacity arena and pair it with a new larger capacity arena than have two large capacity arenas for no reason.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#69 » by BringBackRoko » Fri May 4, 2012 8:38 pm

Kohl can transition from goat to hero pretty quick here.

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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#70 » by trwi7 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:43 pm

WEFFPIM wrote:Take a look at the layouts for the Spurs and Rockets buildings. They both have ice rinks underneath the court. You don't necessarily need the octagon the BC is or the oval a place like the United Center is.


Bad example. Rockets building holds 17,800 for hockey, Spurs holds 13,800. You have to take out a large section of seats on one end of the Spurs building to fit an ice rink where the Rockets was designed for both basketball and hockey.

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Charlotte is the same way as San Antonio. I would hope they would spend a little extra money to make it a hockey suitable building which would make it a usable venue for other events (Frozen Four, preseason NHL).
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#71 » by trwi7 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:47 pm

If the leaders in this city are smart they wouldn't say this arena is only for the Bucks. You have to sell them on concerts, ice shows, etc. With the Bradley Center getting older and outdated, it's harder to attract top notch shows to the Bradley Center. This isn't like Miller Park that basically just holds 81 baseball games a year and that's it. This can host upwards of 150 events a year from basketball to hockey to arena football to ice shows to concerts. There really is a little something for everyone, unlike Miller Park where if you aren't a baseball fan, you aren't likely to use it.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#72 » by jokeboy86 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:47 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:A new MU arena would cost at least $150 million to be a relevant building. They don't have that type of money.

But that's another angle to all this that needs to be played. Somewhere in this discussion will be some big MU guys in the business and political community. MU won't pay for a new Bucks arena, but they might step up to offer political or other support for it. A top tier basketball palace with all the amenities helps MU.



Didn't that new law school building cost like 80 million? I'm sure they could get some alumni together if they needed to, to come up up with 150.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#73 » by Badgerlander » Fri May 4, 2012 8:49 pm

WEFFPIM wrote:
DocHoliday wrote:
WEFFPIM wrote:Having the Admirals be the primary tenant of the Bradley Center would be a horrendous business decision.

Take a look at the layouts for the Spurs and Rockets buildings. They both have ice rinks underneath the court. You don't necessarily need the octagon the BC is or the oval a place like the United Center is.


So you want to keep a 62 year old arena over a 24 year old arena because it holds 4,000 less people?


I'd rather keep one smaller capacity arena and pair it with a new larger capacity arena than have two large capacity arenas for no reason.

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Because the Cell is an armpit
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#74 » by BUCKnation » Fri May 4, 2012 8:54 pm

trwi7 wrote:If the leaders in this city are smart they wouldn't say this arena is only for the Bucks. You have to sell them on concerts, ice shows, etc. With the Bradley Center getting older and outdated, it's harder to attract top notch shows to the Bradley Center. This isn't like Miller Park that basically just holds 81 baseball games a year and that's it. This can host upwards of 150 events a year from basketball to hockey to arena football to ice shows to concerts. There really is a little something for everyone, unlike Miller Park where if you aren't a baseball fan, you aren't likely to use it.

Exactly.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#75 » by trwi7 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:55 pm

jokeboy86 wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:A new MU arena would cost at least $150 million to be a relevant building. They don't have that type of money.

But that's another angle to all this that needs to be played. Somewhere in this discussion will be some big MU guys in the business and political community. MU won't pay for a new Bucks arena, but they might step up to offer political or other support for it. A top tier basketball palace with all the amenities helps MU.



Didn't that new law school building cost like 80 million? I'm sure they could get some alumni together if they needed to, to come up up with 150.


Oregon just built a new basketball arena for the Ducks. Holds 12,369 and cost $227 million. Considering Marquette's average attendance is higher than 12,000 by at least a few thousand, it would cost even more in which case they'd probably rather throw their support behind a new building. Especially since it would be difficult for them to compete with a new Bucks arena for concerts or anything else.

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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#76 » by Toodles1980 » Fri May 4, 2012 8:58 pm

So I rarely post on any message board, ever, but this issue pulled me out. First, the Bradley Center would absolutely need to go. A city the size of Milwaukee cannot support two arenas of that size, and in the end they would cannibalize each other when it comes to other events that would come to town (concerts, monster truck rallies, what have you). U.S. Cellular is in a different class of arenas, and doesn't really compete with Bradley Center or New Arena for most of these things. It is also a nice spillover arena for the city to have if New Arena is in use for something else, and for second tier tenants like the Wave. That being said, if UWM gets their new arena the dynamic would shift again and the future of the Cell would have to be reconsidered.

I think the biggest hurdle here will be convincing people that "public money" is not synonymous with "tax increase." It may mean tax increase, but it doesn't have to. I think with some creative thinking this can be done with no tax money coming from private citizens. The easiest way to do this is to make sure the New Arena is part of the Wisconsin Center District, you then use a ticket surcharge on any event in one of the District buildings to help pay for New Arena which at $4/ticket with only Bucks and Marquette games figured in that is between $4-$5million/year, add in Admirals, concerts and other events and you're probably looking at $6-7million at New Arena alone. Add a $2 fee on shows and events at the Theater and U.S. Cellular arena you're probably at $7-8 million a year. You then take the state income tax that will come from players salaries (tax money that the state would lose if the Bucks weren't here anyway) as well as the income tax from top personnel of the team and you have a good chunk of needed "public money" without ever raising taxes on individuals. A few more creative solutions could be had, but those are two I heard of before and thought of when thinking this through. I think $150 million in public money can get this done which is about half of what Miller Park cost, so I think it's doable, but still a long shot.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#77 » by PANDEMONEUM » Fri May 4, 2012 9:00 pm

WEFFPIM wrote:
I think the city would be better off attacking the new building topic to the public in a broader scope. It's not just a Bucks arena. It's a Marquette arena. It's an Admirals arena. It's a brand new state-of-the-art facility for shows and concerts.

If the Bucks can get Marquette on board with this, it would be huge. Not necessarily financially, but vocally support a new building, it would go a long way to help public opinion. While the Admirals have a devoted fan base, it's way too small to make an impact. But the Admirals will certainly support a new building.


excellent post
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#78 » by xTitan » Fri May 4, 2012 9:00 pm

DocHoliday wrote:Kind of funny that Walker voted for the Miller Park tax in 1996, but is against a new Bucks Arena.


Funny? We live in a far different world now then we did in 1996...no politician is going to say they would put public funds for a new arena, that is instant death...more people watch WIAA girls basketball then the Bucks..we have a major job problem in this state if you haven't noticed.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#79 » by unklchuk » Fri May 4, 2012 9:09 pm

If a new arena were to be built giving the cheap seat fans the terrible sight lines the Bradley Center gives them, that would break my heart.

Keep the seats close to the court. Give the games intimacy.
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Re: Kohl: I'll help Pay For New Arena 

Post#80 » by WEFFPIM » Fri May 4, 2012 9:09 pm

DocHoliday wrote:Because the Cell is an armpit


So you blow up the BC and renovate the Cell. It'll be cheaper than maintaining an arena the primary tenants only use half of. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned UWM looking at costs for renovating the Cell already. They may not do anything with it since they want their own building, but if someone's doing the legwork for you, why wouldn't that be an option?

There's is no logical reason to keep the Bradley Center in tact if a new building with similar capacity is being built, ESPECIALLY is it's right next door.
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