Woelfel on WSSP: Ellis not interested re Bucks extension

WiscoKing13 · Post #21 » by **WiscoKing13** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:15 pm

skones wrote:He'll change his tune when Kohl decides he'll pay more than anyone else.

We can all pray there will be a sign and trade at that point.

mattg · Post #22 » by **mattg** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:34 pm

Monta/gooden for Joe Johnson. It's going to happen.

emunney · Post #23 » by **emunney** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:02 am

The nightmare is probably Monta/Drew for Rudy Gay.

emunney · Post #24 » by **emunney** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:07 am

mattg wrote:Monta/gooden for Joe Johnson. It's going to happen.

That's obviously worse, but I think that's beyond the pale even for Hammond.

raferfenix · Post #25 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:38 am

At least he's being straight with us. And at least we won't be able to screw up royally by giving him a stupid deal and banking on a mini and me-first backcourt.

I'm thinking ideally we could package Ellis / Gooden / Sanders for a legit starting SG.

We don't need to trade Sanders necessarily, but even if we jettison Gooden I think he'll end up on the outside looking in.

More broadly, we've talked about it a bunch at the draft, but a Wesley Mathews based deal from Portland might be worth a Hammonds call now. Especially since Lamarcus Aldridge has made it clear that they need to win now if they want to keep him:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1201505

MikeIsGood · Post #26 » by **MikeIsGood** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:04 am

Wesley Matthews is a "legit starting SG?" Sounds like that would fit in with the Bucks' general line of thinking.

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #27 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:15 am

WiscoKing13 wrote:more ideas for gooden/monta.

Also phx, They are under the cap enough to take on Monta(I think) and you could swap gooden for a number of different players.

POR could do it, Matthews/Hickson/ and a few fillers.

TOR-Calderon,Derozan, fillers

Jazz-Mo and fillers.

Well they had better move him now for someone Jennings approves of or they could lose them both. This is a lame duck organization.

Just rebuild under the leadership of Jennings and sink or swim with Brandon's development. We are not going to win the NBA title anyhow so who cares really? How are we kidding here...?

Just rebuild it right. But you can't do that because Kohl won't let Hammond and Skiles go to allow a rebuild like he should because he thinks fans will come to see an 8th seed contender.

I can't stand Calderon but would take him if you could add Derozan and maybe Weems. Expirings in Monta and Udrih could get that deal done...I would think. Then bring Jonny Flynn into camp and see if he can come off the hip surgery or not?

That's what I would do...

MilBucksBackOnTop06 · Post #28 » by **MilBucksBackOnTop06** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:18 am

raferfenix wrote:At least he's being straight with us. And at least we won't be able to screw up royally by giving him a stupid deal and banking on a mini and me-first backcourt.

I'm thinking ideally we could package Ellis / Gooden / Sanders for a legit starting SG.

We don't need to trade Sanders necessarily, but even if we jettison Gooden I think he'll end up on the outside looking in.

More broadly, we've talked about it a bunch at the draft, but a Wesley Mathews based deal from Portland might be worth a Hammonds call now. Especially since Lamarcus Aldridge has made it clear that they need to win now if they want to keep him:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1201505

It's about time we found something out...ya think? Good job by Woeful getting something atleast out of this situation. It's been too quiet down there...wake up!

Find out where everyone stands and move on...I say.

paul · Post #29 » by **paul** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:42 am

InsideOut wrote:Ellis doesn't want to stay...I'm shocked.

Way to maximize the Bogut asset Hammond.

UWM_Brew_Buck · Post #30 » by **UWM_Brew_Buck** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:49 am

Great news

Muggsy Bogues · Post #31 » by **Muggsy Bogues** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:52 am

worthlessBucks wrote:"The small backcourt didn't work in GS, why is it going to work here?"

And this is why trading him won't be easy. He's not a point guard, and he can't defend off guards, so you've got to send him to a team with a tall PG, or to someone likely to use him as a super-sub for instant points off the bench. And will Ellis consent to coming off the bench (from what I know of the guy, he'd be pretty unhappy about it)? I'm sure that potential partners would research this prior to any trade.

GHOSTofSIKMA · Post #32 » by **GHOSTofSIKMA** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:03 am

ellis isnt worth what he thinks hes worth for the reasons mentioned above. which teams have cap space that would go above what he makes now?

we cant lose here if we just let this play out OR we trade him. this could work out good.

mattg · Post #33 » by **mattg** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:28 am

emunney wrote:
mattg wrote:Monta/gooden for Joe Johnson. It's going to happen.

That's obviously worse, but I think that's beyond the pale even for Hammond.

"when you get the chance to not only address the need for size on the perimeter, but upgrade in talent to a 5 time all star, it's a pretty easy call to make. The veteran leadership, along with the versatility Joe brings as both a scorer and passer are both elements we believe any team in the NBA playoff hunt would love to have."

Baddy Chuck · Post #34 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:36 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:we cant lose here if we just let this play out OR we trade him. this could work out good.

If we didn't trade Andrew Bogut for him I'd agree but because we did. This can't turn out good in any way.

trwi7 · Post #35 » by **trwi7** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:40 am

GoS spent way too much time visiting Hammond in Charlotte that one year.

Baddy Chuck · Post #36 » by **Baddy Chuck** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:54 am

trwi7 wrote:GoS spent way too much time visiting Hammond in Charlotte that one year.

How do we know GOS isn't really Hammond and took a picture with a Bucks fan in Charlotte?

InsideOut · Post #37 » by **InsideOut** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:03 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:ellis isnt worth what he thinks hes worth for the reasons mentioned above. which teams have cap space that would go above what he makes now?

we cant lose here if we just let this play out OR we trade him. this could work out good.

Can’t lose?! We know you're his biggest fan but have you seen what went on with all the other guys Hammond dealt for?

In fact...when was the last time it did work out good under Hammond? When was the last time he traded for or signed a guy and it worked out good for longer than 6 months?

He brings in RJ but that's not working so we'll have to move him and get Salmons who works out for 2 months but soon after he needs to go. Well we'll try Maggette for several months but that isn't working so we'll move him for Jackson who makes it a couple of months before he needs to go. But hey we signed Gooden but unfortunately the goal now is to move or just plain amnesty him. I could go on but the other guys aren't relevant enough to even mention.

By let it play out you mean he walks and we ended up trading Bogut for 7 months of Ellis and that other guy that might get 15 minutes a game?

Based on Hammond track record of what happens when he trades for or signs guys I'd say the odds this could work out good is next to zero. But the optimist in me says there could always be a first time.

Serious question for anyone...before you make a trade can you talk to the guy you'd be getting and ask him if there is a chance in he11 he resigns with you? I mean why trade maybe your best asset at his lowest value for a guy that has no interest in staying with your team?

Ill-yasova · Post #38 » by **Ill-yasova** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:09 am

This is good news because I didn't want Ellis here long term, but at the same time it is another kick in the pills for me as a Bucks fan. I'd much rather be in a situation like the Pack where guys are practically begging to play for us and we can pick and choose.

eagle13 · Post #39 » by **eagle13** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:16 am

Ellis is virtually untradeable for any quality at this time b/c of his salary, height, inefficiency & unwillingness to be 6th man. Dallas may give Marion & 1st-LP but there are few other options.
At deadline most trade restrictions drop off so there should be a few more options but there won't be many,

raferfenix · Post #40 » by **raferfenix** » Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:23 am

What about the Wizards as a potential Ellis destination?

They are in as win-now mode as win now gets. And Ernie Grunfeld is one of the few GMs with a track record that should make us feel as comfortable as we could get in terms of the Hammonds negotiating capacity. Ernie's relationship with Bucks brass might help there too, at least as far as familiarity with Kohl's cronies go, even if relationships were strained when he was canned.

The pairing of Okafor and Nene doesn't make much sense at all either way. I would think one of them would at least be available (think that trade was a misguided attempt to increase their overall 'assets'), which could be especially of interest to us if they were willing to take on Gooden.