Woelfel on WSSP: Ellis not interested re Bucks extension

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

we cant lose here if we just let this play out OR we trade him. this could work out good.

If we didn't trade Andrew Bogut for him I'd agree but because we did. This can't turn out good in any way.

if bogut comes back strong then i agree with you. im in the camp hes done tho. we dont have his salary out of that deal either.

hopefully ellis blows up in his contract year and we can move him if we arent successful as a team. if the team surprises we'll be in a driver seat to resign him assuming dallas doesnt swoop in or something. if he regresses then thank god for not extending him..... and he'll still be an expiring chip at the deadline for something or other.

i dont see the point in crying over how the bogut asset went. hes been a non difference maker for 2 years now and the worst thing that could happen with ellis is that hes an expiring non difference maker as well. if bogut comes back and has a reawakening then NOTHING we could have dealt him for will seem like a good payoff. we can cross that psychological bridge when it gets here.... if it does.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

GoS spent way too much time visiting Hammond in Charlotte that one year.

probably so... and you didnt see last years picture...lol i got to the bobcats season opener 1.5 hours early and the only 2 guys sitting in the section was hammond and kohl. both 1 row deirectly in front of my seats. i didnt give details of that conversation or post any pics to spare myself the expense and ridicule it would have brought around here.

if youd spent several hours in multiple conversations like that..... youd probably scoff at the ridiculous caricature this board has contrived of him as well.

organizationally were not going to tank for picks for obvious reasons and im sorta ok with that. i guess that makes me a pariah. oh well

[RiotPunch]

Color me shocked. (or Green)

[dogswithbeesintheirmouths]

This is good unless you are as mesmerized by swag as the Bucks. It's lucky for them Ellis wants out because he needed to be traded anyway. He's way overrated and the longer he plays the less he'll be worth.

They should just get on with it, forget about the deadline. Besides, if Hammond wants his job back next year his best bet at Herbie's 8 seed would be cleaning up the roster before the season.

[jr lucosa]

I think our best shot at maximizing value will be near the deadline from either a contender looking for that last piece or a mediocre team looking for an 8th seed push piece.

I don't know what kind of value Monta would have today, especially since a majority of teams probably already consider there rosters set to start the season at this point. It would be best to wait for things to go wrong for other teams who have high expectations heading into the season.

[bigkurty]

We still need to get JRich on the team to add to the annual collection of aging swing men we like to sign. My guess is we go after him and Nick young and trade Ellis and dunleavy for them. Not sure if it works but I am sure filler could even it out.

[Chuck Diesel]

We will see what happens after the playoff run.

[Ayt]

Monta/gooden for Joe Johnson. It's going to happen.

That's obviously worse, but I think that's beyond the pale even for Hammond.

"when you get the chance to not only address the need for size on the perimeter, but upgrade in talent to a 5 time all star, it's a pretty easy call to make. The veteran leadership, along with the versatility Joe brings as both a scorer and passer are both elements we believe any team in the NBA playoff hunt would love to have."

Not enough stuttering, IMO.

[AussieBuck]

GoS spent way too much time visiting Hammond in Charlotte that one year.

How do we know GOS isn't really Hammond and took a picture with a Bucks fan in Charlotte?

It all makes sense now.

[Chapter29]

This is great news. Not overly surprising but great news none the less.

For me I like Ellis, but more so in a 6th man (Ricky Pierce type role). Clearly he thinks he's better than that and of course his salary will be more in tune with a starter or perhaps even closer to an all-star type player. So with that I have zero interest in resigning him.

[Thunder Muscle]

It's a Woelful rumor so I'll take it as a grain of salt. But the good in this is hopefully the Bucks are open to dealing him. I thought the only way they would is if his camp point blank said they wouldn't re-sign here, which is what Woelful is pretty much saying. This will be interesting b/c the Bucks can't afford to lose Ellis for nothing, Hammond can't afford to trade Ellis b/c that probably means no playoffs for sure, Skiles is the same deal assuming he even wants to be coaching here after next year. It's a tough spot.

The good news though is worst case scenario if they keep Ellis is you will get 11M of cap relief. Well barring they don't make some god awful trade. I wouldn't mind packaging him/Gooden for Matthews and maybe a 1st rd pick. I don't know if Portland has interest in either guy though. I think Matthews is a young blue collar SG that is an easy sell to the fan base, plus you pick up a 1st, and get rid of Gooden.

[LUKE23]

I guess I don't buy that this can't end poorly. If he walks, how is 100 games of Ellis, Udoh, and cap space a good return for Bogut? We're not a team that can afford to waste assets, yet we do it continually.

I also don't buy that "if he doesn't want to be here he'll surely be traded". Sessions wasn't, even with a big market for him. Nobody thought Ersan wanted to stay, and he wasn't moved either. If we are in the playoff chase whatsoever at the deadline Ellis will be kept, regardless of his desire or lack thereof to stay in Milwaukee.

The only hope is the Bucks get absolutely buried. Given how weak the middle to bottom of the East is, I just can't see that happening.

[Thunder Muscle]

I agree there is no way the Bucks are out of the mix by mid-season. There would have to be a huge team mutiny in order for that to happen. And it's not like Ellis is going to go S-Jax on us either. If he has a monster year, he can opt out and get a big payday somewhere this offseason. Unfortunately our team is doing the classic late-90's Brewers build of trying to win yet kind of rebuild at the same time, which never works.

I guess as far as a return on Bogut, it really is dependent on what was being offered which is something we may or may not ever know. If Ellis walks, it's hard to argue that it was a good return. Udoh's ceiling is probably a good role player and it did free up a ton of cap space, especially if Ellis walks, but that's dependent on what they use that space with. As refreshing as it is not to go into a season "if Bogut stays healthy" I think ideally it would've been nice just to go into the offseason with him. Unfortunately I think trading him was a knee jerk reaction to being frustrated with his injuries, another flailing season, all while getting rid of the headache that was Stak Jax.

[Thunder Muscle]

For me if you can parlay Ellis/Gooden into a young player/draft pick, the Bogut trade could be viewed as a positive. So for example, lets say Ellis/Gooden for Matthews/1st Rd Pick/Fillers. So essentially this happened...

Out:
Bogut
S-Jax
Gooden

In:
Matthews (young)
Udoh (young)
1st Rd Pick (top 5 protected)
Cap Space (Bogut, S-Jax, Kwame --- Gooden/Matthews similar)

In that scenario you pick up 2 young assets, a draft pick, and clear quite a bit of cap space for Bogut. Me personally don't have alot of issue with it. I guess the one beef is if you don't think the young assets we got are ever going to be All-Stars, but Bogut never was either, so...

[LUKE23]

http://www.brewhoop.com/2012/8/28/32733 ... #storyjump

There's still some rumblings that they might be interested in making a significant trade. A lot of it hinges on where they feel they're going to go with Monta Ellis or Brandon Jennings. If Ellis gives them a clear indication that he's not coming back (after 2013), it wouldn't shock me if they traded him. In fact I would encourage them to trade Monta Ellis because he's got a player option after next year.

[Freimund asks if the two sides have neogitated[ They have talked, yeah. Neither party is talking about what they're saying. But everyone I've talked to in the Monta Ellis camp says he's not coming back after next year.

Woelfel suggested similar feelings from Ellis' camp earlier this year when he first arrived in Milwaukee, and it's not clear how aggressively the Bucks have worked to extend Ellis to begin with. It's important to note the limitations prescribed by the CBA on that front: a new deal could not be for more than four seasons including the two Ellis has left on his current deal, and the starting salary in the first new season (14/15) would be limited to $11.8 million, or 107.5% of the $11 million he's owed in each of the final two years of his contract. Overall, figure around four years and $47 million for the hypothetical extension's max value, with two years and $25ish million incremental to what the Bucks owe him over the remaining two years. That's more than most of us would want to pay Ellis, but my guess is that Ellis would rather take his chances fishing for a bigger payday in free agency than commit to an uncertain future with a modest raise in Milwaukee.

[Thunder Muscle]

"There's still some rumblings that they might be interested in making a significant trade."

Was there any indication this could be before the season starts? Ideally I'd love to have him dealt before training camp starts, which give you like a 1 month window assuming they open camp on October 1st.

[White+Purple]

HALLE **** LUJAH

[EastSideBucksFan]

I don't know if Ferry would be interested, but I'd at least make a call to Atlanta to see if they want to get Ellis to help entice Howard next year while Ferry can clear more cap space. Ellis & Josh Smith are two of Howards buddies.

Ellis/Sanders/Top3 protected first for Horford

[Thunder Muscle]

Unless you plan to play Horford at the 5, I don't think you can pursue Horford with Ersan already locked into 30+ million. And I don't know if Horford is a good 5 anyway. And 4 or 5, that is another road block to Henson.

[emunney]

The thing about offering Monta an extension is that extensions are limited to 4 years including the remaining years on the existing contract. In order to extend right now, Monta would have to opt in on the final year on his current contract, and he could then be extended for two additional years beyond that point (the current year always counts). So if he signs the extension now, he's making 3/35.475 after the time he could have opted out. I'm sure he feels he can do better than 35.475 guaranteed in the open market. Whether he can or not remains to be seen.