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DrugBust wrote:In the 14 games Ersan started prior to the trade for Ellis he averaged 13 FGAs per game. In the 18 games after Ellis arrived Ersan averaged 10 FGA/game. I don't think they've really figured out how to get him involved with Ellis as the 1st or 2nd offensive option.

This. Backcourt is eating up his FGA (and Tobias').

It's more than just not getting the ball. His jumper isn't there yet. He'll probably be an 11/6/1 player by end of season. If his rebounds drift down, that's a red flag.

Nebula1 wrote:It's more than just not getting the ball. His jumper isn't there yet. He'll probably be an 11/6/1 player by end of season. If his rebounds drift down, that's a red flag.

I'd say part of his jumper not falling is because he's not consistently getting the ball in his hands, considering that it's pretty evident that Ersan is a rhythm player. That, plus the annual early season "erratic minutes thanks to Skiles" problem.

Tough for me to blame Skiles for Ersan's lack of productivity thus far. I'll buy the fact that our backcourt isn't getting the ball to him enough, yes, but he is taking shots when he gets them..they're just not falling. With a bench full of PF's to choose from, it's tough for me to blame Skiles for giving one of them a chance over a cold shooting Ersan.

I don't think it's so much that Ersan is struggling mightily on his own, but that his lack of production has been a result of the stagnation that has been our offensive sets these last two games with Memphis and Cleveland. Our sets totally break down anywhere from 3-8 seconds after initiation, and we've spent the remainder of the shotclock often times with everyone else on the floor just looking at the ball handler, expecting him to make something happen.

Our pick and roll game has been atrocious so far. Simplest play in the game and neither Jennings nor Monta have figured out how to effectively create space for either themselves or others during P 'n R execution. I can think of more times either of those knuckleheads have tried to "split" the defensive coverage on a two-man game and either lost the ball or got stripped than times where they've either gotten themselves or someone else an open look. Contrast that with Memphis last night, who flat-out out-muscled us on every set screen, and was able to get to wherever they felt like on the floor for uncontested shots. A good number of Ersan's spot-ups last year came after either Jennings or Monta got to the basket and kicked it out to him. He hasn't had many of those so far.

Ers has also spent most of his (limited thus far) minutes on the floor with Tobias, who, whenever the offense has not been ran through him, has been relegated to standing in a corner or around the perimeter. Whether that's by design or by his lack of offensive awareness/spacing is yet to be seen. But last year, with Ers logging minutes with Dunleavy, he seemed to be more active, if only because Dunleavy was always on the move, and Ersan was able to slash/find position for offensive rebounds as a result of that. With Tobias standing around and no Dunleavy in, our offense schemes have looked lost, and I feel like the lack of rotations that Ersan seemingly thrived off of last year are the reasons he's not finding the same touches on the offensive end. Obviously, it's still incredibly early to be voicing any real concern about his production though.

Slow start to the season, can never underestimate the fact that he backed up the Brinks truck though.

With BJ3 and Monta redefining baddy chuckin', he has little chance to hoist as many shots as he needs too.

It's hard to say so early in the season. A few things that come to mind though.

1. His jumper is off. He looks scared to shoot/lacking in confidence(a problem he's had much of his career). I think it's also obvious that he wasn't going to nail 45% from 3 again because he has never been that high quality of a shooter. If his shooting doesn't come around you could also maybe infer that the 15 pounds of muscle he added in the offseason messed up his mechanics. Additionally, because he did shoot so well last season after being very inconsistent earlier in his career, teams are closing out on him much harder than before and he can't make defenses pay by putting the ball on the floor and attacking.

2. His game is entirely based on hustle and garbage buckets. You never want to really rely on guys whose entire method of production is garbage points because good teams minimize those opportunities. This problem is only further magnified in guys that can't create their own shots. Maybe Ersan is losing a couple FGA per game because of bad shot selection by the guards, but I don't think its realistic to expect much more than 10-12 FGA for Ersan in a game. You can't force feed guys like him because all his scoring is done in the flow. If his jumper isn't there and opponents box out, Ersan just isn't going to get that many shots.

Honestly though, its been 3 games. Give it some time. Ersan has been good on the defensive glass and has looked solid at times. Could just be a bad start. Don't want to speculate too much, but he does need to start playing better soon considering his contract.

no panic ok, ersan is a intelligent guy, he plays himself out of this critical situation, next game 20/10 and you all love him again

we are not this typical hysterical raptors fans

He's always been an inconsistent shooter though.

So it's not that surprising.

Ersan is widely inconsistent year to year, both in the NBA and in international competition.

What the hell does Skiles have to do with this? He didn't trade Bogut for Monta Ellis and he didn't draft Brandon Jennings. It's his job to control the team and offense, but this is the NBA - players are gonna play how they're gonna play. Our backcourt is going to shoot us in or out of every game. Our frontcourt players rely on the occasional drive and kick or put-back opportunities to score.

Also, Ersan hasn't exactly been innocent in all this. His confidence isn't very high right now, and that's obvious. Additionally, his 1-2 pump fakes per touch has resulted in him taking contested shots when he could have just taken the open shot right away.

It's WAY too early to say something is wrong with him though. I feel good about his resigning, and it'll prove to be a good value for us.

I guess I haven't done my homework on Ersan. I'm guilty of following box scores. I always thought of him as a good shooter who hustles. Those type of guys are usually fantasy gold. But, if what I'm reading is correct, then... I should probably look to trade him.

I should have known not to draft someone playing with Jennings AND Ellis! I forgot to mention that wacky Scott Skiles.

Skiles and Jennings hindering the development of another big man? Maybe he's just not that good.

LUKE23 wrote:

DrugBust wrote:In the 14 games Ersan started prior to the trade for Ellis he averaged 13 FGAs per game. In the 18 games after Ellis arrived Ersan averaged 10 FGA/game. I don't think they've really figured out how to get him involved with Ellis as the 1st or 2nd offensive option.

This. Backcourt is eating up his FGA (and Tobias').

It has eaten into Ersan's touches but he still occasionally gets the pass on the pick and pop.

Tobes is basically completely frozen out in the half court.

I don't think this is Skiles. Ersan has always been all about confidence, and he has shot poorly and his confidence isn't there. You can tell when he is pump faking every time he gets the ball. hesitating on open shots in good places on the floor for him, etc. Its not a contract year thing from an effort standpoint, and from Skiles perspective, who is coaching for his job, Ersan is playing badly enough that he has pretty much had to take him out.

Couple easy buckets and he'll be fine and back to breaking faces.

As I said in the other thread he and Tobes are being punished for the **** starts we are having due to Monta and Ellis being useless pieces of crap.

LUKE23 wrote:

DrugBust wrote:In the 14 games Ersan started prior to the trade for Ellis he averaged 13 FGAs per game. In the 18 games after Ellis arrived Ersan averaged 10 FGA/game. I don't think they've really figured out how to get him involved with Ellis as the 1st or 2nd offensive option.

This. Backcourt is eating up his FGA (and Tobias').

What does that have to do with anything. If anything that should get Ersan more shots! Every team know the Bucks are guard orientated. Common sense would say that they need that 3rd guy...so wtf is Ersan!?

That is not Jennings and Ellis fault! They get 13-25 assists a game between them! Why dont you tell Ersan to get his $9 mil dollar a-- in there and to be aggressive. This is not Turkey. This is the NBA. No Babies Allowed...earn your moneyor Scott should set him down.

Stop blaming everything on the guards! Just like Bogut's sorry a-- when he was here...He was never assertive every trip down. Never got a midrange shot.

He never set up in the post like Zach Randolph and or on the elbow like Marco Gasol to take advantage of his over-ratted passing abilities everyone talks about, and then he never consistently commanded the ball and fans in here would ALWAYS complain that Jennings is not giving him the ball.

Get outta here with that. Watch the game. He is limited. In the Pros you better bring a new aspect of your game back with you or don't blame anyone else.

Not enough shots eh? Doesn't seem to be bothering Dunleavy. The guy is struggling and it's his own fault. He's a hustle player, not Reggie Miller or Ray Allen. Grab more boards and put back more shots. How many assists is Jennings averaging this year?

AussieBuck wrote:As I said in the other thread he and Tobes are being punished for the **** starts we are having due to Monta and Ellis being useless pieces of crap.

He's so bad that it's like theres two of him out there

Why would lack of FGA's be what is holding Ersan down? Almost all of his value as a player comes from his rebounding, position D, low TO rate and ability to score efficiently without needing the ball a lot.

What a strange argument.