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The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it)

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The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#1 » by paulpressey25 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:28 pm

Interesting article. Short excerpt below. h/t FAM from twitter.

http://behindthebuckpass.com/2012/11/09 ... ly-matter/

"..It’s always easy to pin the Bucks’ rebounding woes on Udoh. After all, while Udoh’s rebounding numbers are taking a disconcerting dive, Larry Sanders’ rebounding rates have been on the incline since he entered the league with Udoh in 2010. Sanders is averaging 11.5 rebounds per 36 minutes this year, after marks of 9.0 last season and 7.3 in his rookie campaign. His rebounding rate is up to an impressive 18.9 percent, trumping past rates of 13.7 and 11.9 in his last two seasons respectively.

Yet, here’s the paradox: While Udoh is seemingly allergic to basketballs once they graze the rim, his teams have always rebounded better with him on the court...."
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#2 » by cam2win » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:32 pm

He will now be known around here as Ekpe Udohn't rebound.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#3 » by jeremyd236 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:32 pm

Individual rebounding numbers are overrated, any anyone who has played basketball before knows this. Boxing out your guy is all that matters in regards to team rebounds.

Think about Bogut, that guy could've grabbed 15 rebounds per game if he wanted to. But by watching him and listening to a few interviews, he was concerned with boxing out. He did not care who grabbed the board.

I haven't seen enough of Udoh yet, but the stats appear to support the theory that he boxes out well and doesn't grab the rebound.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#4 » by raferfenix » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:38 pm

If his boxing out is part of what is making Larry Sanders so much more effective, then I can certainly live with his lack of rebounding.

Sanders' development is one of the most important priorities on this team in my mind.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#5 » by jr lucosa » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:43 pm

It makes sense because of his box outs and stats like this are interesting, but you still need to consider individual situations. There's been times since we acquired him where a missed rebound or two from Udoh cost us the game, or a shot at a game winning situation.

Let's not act like this isn't still a problem, especially if we are considering giving this guy a contract past his current one.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#6 » by ampd » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:47 pm

Very good, balanced, well written article.

Clearly Udoh is doing something right while he is out there. He really does appear to be one of those guys who other than his blocks, does a lot of stuff that just isn't measured in the box score.

It would be nice if he was a bit better rebounder, but if his presence doesn't actually decrease the rebound rate of the team while he is out there, despite his own terrible rate, then its hard to argue he negatively affects the team by not collecting more rebounds.

Its hard to disagree with the writer that

it’s reasonable to think more than 0.6 rebounds would aimlessly fall into his lap, on average, in a 36-minute span. This number really defies any sort reasoning
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#7 » by paulpressey25 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:48 pm

Larry Sanders grew a pair of hands this fall.

There is hope for Ekpe.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#8 » by ampd » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:52 pm

raferfenix wrote:If his boxing out is part of what is making Larry Sanders so much more effective, then I can certainly live with his lack of rebounding.

Sanders' development is one of the most important priorities on this team in my mind.


If anything I would say his rebounding has helped Dunleavy this season more than anyone else, maybe even almost exclusively.

Dunleavy's DRR was 13% last year (career 14.9). This season so far it is 29.1%. He has almost doubled his TRR and literally doubled his per game average from 3.7 to 7.4. Small sample size, but if this theory is true, maybe he is just getting Ekpe's rebounds
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#9 » by BUCKnation » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:56 pm

Im going to have to watch closer when he comes in. I dont really notice the other team getting too many 2nd chances or him fumbling the ball away often enough to make it noticeable.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#10 » by emunney » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:26 pm

Obviously you'd rather he were able to box out awesome AND catch awesome. If all other things stayed equal and he grew new, great hands overnight, he might immediately be our best overall player. That's both a comment on how solid he is all around and how confusingly bad his hands are on rebounds. Larry the past few years would have a lot of balls bounce off his hands, but Udoh has that AND outright misses a lot of balls. I think the coaching reaction to that has been to just let him hold his box out and rely on other guys to chase the ball.

That said, his team rebounding is good enough that you can have him out there and not get killed against most teams. If you went by his raw rebounding numbers, you'd conclude he's unplayable, but that's just not the case.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#11 » by Sigra » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:34 pm

I always loved players with intengibles. So I like Udoh and Moute maybe the most in this team.

We have frontcourt for years. And Jennings is PG solution when motivated. All we need are wing players who defend and hit 3 pointers and we are set.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#12 » by SkilesTheLimit » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:34 pm

It seems as though Udoh will end up being the odd man out here in a cluster of PF's. I think if we can find a taker for him and get someone back in return, it might be a good idea. Ersan got his cash so he's locked in for a few years and it seems like Sanders is grabbing the PF/C position. I like Henson's overall game better than Udoh so I think when it comes time, Udoh is a goner.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#13 » by Sigra » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:40 pm

SkilesTheLimit wrote:It seems as though Udoh will end up being the odd man out here in a cluster of PF's. I think if we can find a taker for him and get someone back in return, it might be a good idea. Ersan got his cash so he's locked in for a few years and it seems like Sanders is grabbing the PF/C position. I like Henson's overall game better than Udoh so I think when it comes time, Udoh is a goner.


I think that Ersan is odd man out when all is said and done. Sanders/Udoh at C and Henson/Moute at PF with anual Pryzbila kind of situational big is way to go IMO.

Hopefully we can pack Ersan with Ellis for wing who can defend and shoot.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#14 » by AussieBuck » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:56 pm

Does this mean we are done judging Udoh on his boxscore?
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#15 » by KeyRabbit » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:22 pm

ampd wrote:Clearly Udoh is doing something right while he is out there. He really does appear to be one of those guys who other than his blocks, does a lot of stuff that just isn't measured in the box score.


Skiles has noted a few times that Udoh is always in the right spot defensively, knows his assignments, etc., and I'm finally starting to see that after the Cs game. I love the Sanders/Udoh combo so far, and I attribute at least part of Larry's improvement to some of the things that Udoh does. Sanders is more the live wire who, given his length, can create havok all over the court at any given time. For both teams. Epke is more stabilizing, and the number of times he's been an effective help defender is starting to become really noticeable.

As long as the team rebounding and interior D are solid, I don't care about his stats at all. And he needs to keep shooting that intermediate J.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#16 » by Badgerlander » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:41 pm

Love Udoh.

Udoh, Sanders, Henson, Harris, and Lamb have me excited for this teams future.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#17 » by MilBucksBackOnTop06 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:08 pm

Who cares about his rebounding...right now?

AlI they should care about his scoring in the low post along with all our bigs to help Monta and Jennings out!
There is nothing worse for a guard to give the ball up to a big man in good scoring position and he juggles it or can't expand his game enough to find a way to finish around the basket or draw a foul.

If you are a good PG or playmaker you should be asking...wtf!? Why am I passing to him. They do not trust Larry even on some screen and pick and rolls to hit him when he rolls fearing he would drop it. It is the offense I am worried about not the defense.

The Bucks need to get to a point of full trust in their teammates to be able to deliver more often in the half court so the guards can get easier shots and prevent other teams from collapsing on them. That is why Monta and Jennings shooting pct is what it is. No easy shots...

We are not being outrebounded that much. That is not an issue...imo. Not yet anyways. That should be the least of our concerns. He boxs out well so someone else can rebound the ball like Ersan or Larry so it is ok.

If Udoh boxes out his man and sheilds or seals well and uses his wide body he does not have to rebound. The guards or other bigs can.

But it's the catch, gather and score around the basket and on post up situations so all the pressure is not on the guards to score!

Forget rebouding...for now. Hit some shots.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#18 » by MilBucksBackOnTop06 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:27 pm

DocHoliday wrote:Love Udoh.

Udoh, Sanders, Henson, Harris, and Lamb have me excited for this teams future.

Does it...oh really? :roll: Interesting. :-?

Then you are easily swayed and impressed. Remember you don't know what their ceilings are nor learning curves.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#19 » by xTitan » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:48 pm

DocHoliday wrote:Love Udoh.

Udoh, Sanders, Henson, Harris, and Lamb have me excited for this teams future.


That excites you? Only Henson has a small chance at being a star, Sanders appears to have the potential to be better than I thought, but not a star. Players with major star potential excite me, none of which are on the Bucks it would appear.
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Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it) 

Post#20 » by NerdsterBuck » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:53 pm

I have noticed that Udoh helps out a lot on the high screens. Maybe this is the reason of his lack of rebounds.

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