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The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack of it)

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Post#21 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:30 pm by SpursNBucks

NerdsterBuck wrote:I have noticed that Udoh helps out a lot on the high screens. Maybe this is the reason of his lack of rebounds.


Yes- he also great boxing out and is almost always always in the right position. If there were a abstract stat that counted fouls in a formula of a defender (if there is I don't know it) - Larry wouldn't look nearly as good.

I like both Larry and Udoh - A LOT! When they play together they basically shut down the opposing offense from having any inside game. Bogut didn't do much in a handful of games - now out 10 (as I predicted - at least)- I am POSITIVE he will not finish out from there and will be lucky to average 20 minutes. At least we have guys that are healthy and out there contributing. I will take that over a guy in a wheel chair on the sidelines any day -or when he is playing grimacing with pain like he did the last few years the Bucks .
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Post#22 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:01 pm by Ayt

xTitan wrote:
DocHoliday wrote:Love Udoh.

Udoh, Sanders, Henson, Harris, and Lamb have me excited for this teams future.


That excites you? Only Henson has a small chance at being a star, Sanders appears to have the potential to be better than I thought, but not a star. Players with major star potential excite me, none of which are on the Bucks it would appear.


As good as Larry has been this year, he still fouls like a crazed banshee. He also only has one year left on his deal, so he will not look so good if we have to extend him at the 10M a year or so that decent young centers command if he doesn't clean up his flaws.
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Post#23 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:43 pm by SpursNBucks

Ayt wrote:
xTitan wrote:
DocHoliday wrote:Love Udoh.

Udoh, Sanders, Henson, Harris, and Lamb have me excited for this teams future.


That excites you? Only Henson has a small chance at being a star, Sanders appears to have the potential to be better than I thought, but not a star. Players with major star potential excite me, none of which are on the Bucks it would appear.


As good as Larry has been this year, he still fouls like a crazed banshee. He also only has one year left on his deal, so he will not look so good if we have to extend him at the 10M a year or so that decent young centers command if he doesn't clean up his flaws.


Larry only knows one speed and way to play = he's gotten a tad better, but that is his game. He and Udoh are signed through 13/14 with the qual offer the next year. If the Bucks have success he will get his props, hard to say what that means in two years - could be the Bucks even extend him after this year or trade him at some point. There's some overlap with Sanders and Udoh - long and tough low post defenders with some different strengths.

Udoh led the team in rebounds in this game BTW.
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Post#24 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:42 am by Max Green

St. Francis - Ekpe Udoh doesn't have eye-popping statistics.

But look a bit closer and you will see the third-year forward is making a major contribution to the Milwaukee Bucks defense.

Coach Scott Skiles certainly sees it and has rewarded the 6-foot-10 Udoh with playing time, an average of 20.4 minutes over the first seven games of the season.

Udoh and 6-11 Larry Sanders often play in tandem off the bench, helping to thwart opposing offenses.

And the progress of both players has helped the Bucks get off to a 5-2 start as they end a two-game home stand Saturday night against No. 1 overall draft pick Anthony Davis and the New Orleans Hornets.

Bucks fans knew a bit more about Sanders because he has been with the team since being drafted 15th overall in 2010. Udoh was the No. 6 pick in the same draft, selected by Golden State, and came to the Bucks as part of the Monta Ellis-Andrew Bogut deal in March.

"His main strength is he really helps keep the defense organized," Skiles said of Udoh. "He can block shots, of course.

"But that's obvious to anybody watching the game. It's not so obvious unless you know what we're trying to do, what he's really doing on the defensive end.

"He's always in the right spot. He's early in his help instead of late. He's a very high-level big guy for being in the right spot, anticipating the action and seeing it coming. His only thing is on the D-board and he's trying to make it an emphasis."

Udoh is not a strong defensive rebounder. But he finished with a team-high seven rebounds (three defensive boards) in the Bucks' 99-85 victory against Indiana on Wednesday.

His numbers are not that impressive: 5.6 points and 3.1 rebounds per game. But he knows his contributions are highly valued by his coach and teammates.

"This year I haven't blocked shots like I normally do," Udoh said. "But being there defensively is big. I alter shots or I'm just there on the pick-and-roll coverage.

"You've always got to know that stuff and be ready. Every little thing helps us."

The Bucks have depth in the big-man positions, a noticeable change from last season. Udoh's development has meant veteran Drew Gooden has been inactive for the last four games.

Rookie power forward John Henson returned from an injury on Nov. 7 but has played only in a lopsided loss to Memphis and in the fourth quarter of Wednesday's rout of the Pacers.

Udoh admits he didn't know what to think when he was traded along with Ellis to the Bucks last season.

"Of course I was apprehensive," Udoh said. "I came here and I didn't know much. It really messed me up that I got traded so I just went out here and played."

Now with a full training camp behind him, the 25-year-old is feeling much more comfortable with his new team.

"We're really starting to play good ball," Udoh said. "We can't feel good about ourselves. We've got to keep being dogs out there and it will all pay off."

The Bucks never considered Udoh a throw-in when making the deal with the Warriors. He was not included by Golden State at the outset, but the Bucks wanted a big man to at least partially offset the loss of the 7-foot Bogut.

"We wouldn't have done it without him," Skiles said. "It's not that we were trying to compare him to anybody else. It's just that we thought he was a quality big player that could help us."

Udoh played two years at Michigan, but his draft stock rose after a strong junior year at Baylor in 2009-'10, when he averaged 13.9 points and 9.8 rebounds.

He played in 58 games with Golden State as a rookie and in 61 games (11 starts) last season. He averaged 1.67 blocks in his second year, ranking 11th in the league.

Skiles said he wants both Udoh and Sanders to keep moving on offense and not to be "ball-holders."

"He has good post moves," Skiles said. "He screens, he rolls; he can move around the floor. He can put the ball down and make dribble-handoff plays that help facilitate the offense for other guys."

Udoh said he is trying to make a play when he has the ball and being aware of Ellis and Brandon Jennings, the Bucks' high-scoring backcourt tandem.

And on defense he's communicating with his teammates and working together with Sanders when they are on the floor together.

"It's crazy," Udoh said. "On defense we both can guard on the perimeter and we both can get blocked shots.

"All the time we're talking; in timeouts we're talking what we need to do. He always has my back. I always have his back. We're animals."

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Post#25 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:43 am by AussieBuck

"Udoh's development"???? The dude stepped into the league a 10 year veteran.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#26 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:51 am by El Duderino

paulpressey25 wrote:Larry Sanders grew a pair of hands this fall.

There is hope for Ekpe.


Sanders not dropping rebounds right off his hands and/or having rebounds taken away from him by other bigs has easily been the biggest surprise for me this year, mainly because a big man with bad hands isn't something that goes away. Hell, Larry has even caught some quick passes thrown in the congested paint, which he then scored on. It has literally shocked me a few times.
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Post#27 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:55 am by blazza18

I'm starting to like the trade for Udoh more and more. Makes LRMAM somewhat expendable too.
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Post#28 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:13 am by Baddy Chuck

blazza18 wrote:I'm starting to like the trade for Udoh more and more. Makes LRMAM somewhat expendable too.

I don't see it. Monta and Harris (and Dunleavy) are huge liabilities on defense. We'll need Luc in a lot of situations. Our offense will suffer a bit but we'll be a much better team knowing he's on the bench.

Even if we do trade him, what do we go after?
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Post#29 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:22 am by theFireBlanket

from the comments section of that Udoh article:
ai s ghost wrote:Man, this is one dude I don't get for nothin. What is he doin out there? "He is always in the right spot"? What? Who cares if he in the right dang spot? He don't even shoot! If he don't rebound, how can you even tell he was in the dang game? At least Ilyabrickich gonna shoot the dang ball, this guy don't even do that, he just out there standin in his dang right spot. That's one a the things I just don't get about this team.... "standin in the right spot"!!!


:lol:

Luc actually played incredibly on O when the team ran vs GSW and Portland last season. Sure, neither team was very good but why wouldn't he benefit from the current style of play? Add any personal improvement.He's being written off and undervalued once again.

Let the season develop before deciding someone that hasn't even gotten onto the floor yet, no longer fits and is expendable. What if Ers keeps playing at his current level? Maybe he's the one that should be dealt.
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Post#30 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:30 am by AussieBuck

I guess if you want to ignore one end of the court Ersan can also play the 2,3 and 4.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#31 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:32 am by blazza18

Baddy Chuck wrote:
blazza18 wrote:I'm starting to like the trade for Udoh more and more. Makes LRMAM somewhat expendable too.

I don't see it. Monta and Harris (and Dunleavy) are huge liabilities on defense. We'll need Luc in a lot of situations. Our offense will suffer a bit but we'll be a much better team knowing he's on the bench.

Even if we do trade him, what do we go after?



I think Tobes defensive problems are easily fixed with time. Some of it he is going to double someone and then gets back late on his own man. Skiles will fix that. With Monta its just about effort and fighting through the screens, you can actually see him trying. Godleaveys job is to score so I'm not concerned about him playing defence :D.

I do think Luc has value to the team right now and I'm keen to see him return soon. But I could see him getting traded for shooter.
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Post#32 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:38 am by theFireBlanket

I'd rather not deal either player. Ersan doesn't effectively defend all of those positions and on this team that's crucial. Udoh, Larry, and Dalembert shouldn't be the only good defenders getting burn.
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Post#33 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:39 am by Baddy Chuck

AussieBuck wrote:I guess if you want to ignore one end of the court Ersan can also play the 2,3 and 4.

You don't need both facets of the game to to play a position. Luc will likely have at least 3 proficient offensive players at any position next to him. Luc can be effective at any of those 3 positions. He'll be a liability on the offensive end, but he is a great defensive player. Let's not act like your man love isn't an offensive liability at the 4 or 5.
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Post#34 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:46 am by Baddy Chuck

blazza18 wrote:I do think Luc has value to the team right now and I'm keen to see him return soon. But I could see him getting traded for shooter.

I don't see a huge need for that shooter when Luc comes back. Likely he'll be playing mostly the 3 and 4 allowing Duns to play more two. I really only see the need for another shooter for a. injuries or b. you ship Monta out.

Monta's going to get his 30ish minutes a game.
Udrih will get spot minutes at the two like we often see.
Dunleavy will slide over and play more 2.
Daniels and Lamb can play the spot minutes left.

We have our shooter in Dunleavy, we have absolutely no defense on the wing. Trading Luc creates a hole rather then fills it in my opinion.
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Post#35 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:58 am by AussieBuck

Baddy Chuck wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:I guess if you want to ignore one end of the court Ersan can also play the 2,3 and 4.

You don't need both facets of the game to to play a position. Luc will likely have at least 3 proficient offensive players at any position next to him. Luc can be effective at any of those 3 positions. He'll be a liability on the offensive end, but he is a great defensive player. Let's not act like your man love isn't an offensive liability at the 4 or 5.

Udoh? I don't see him as a liability at the 5. He sets the best screens on the team and can catch the ball decently enough when it's passed to him. I just don't like the idea of Luc at the 3 unless he's playing with Dunleavy at the 2 and a regular Ersan at the 4.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#36 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:36 am by GHOSTofSIKMA

reading that article about udoh and what he says about sanders really kind of excites me. these 2 guys can be real similar to the davis boys from indiana in the 90's that were so successful together. maybe they already are and this is what were about to see this year with them together. great defenders, enforcer mentalitys......and probably in time decent enough offensively we dont worry about that side at all either.

we have something here with these two. we really do.
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Post#37 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:07 am by paulpressey25

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote: these 2 guys can be real similar to the davis boys from indiana in the 90's that were so successful together.


That 1994-2000 Pacers team seems to me to be about as far as we can go without a superstar, although they had Reggie Miller as their focal point and I'm not sure who we have in that department.

But yes, the Davis boys are a decent comparison from the standpoint that you had two guys who didn't put up gaudy "numbers" but they completely controlled the interior and helped the Pacers be a winning team for a long time.
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Post#38 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:07 pm by Treebeard

The Davis's were the human form of the "sum is greater than the parts" idea. Separately, they were just pretty good, but together, they were a force.
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Post#39 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:45 am by vlietinho

Let's not forget about what Rik Smits did for the Pacers at that time ;-)

Just last week they showed a re-run on Dutch tv of a documentary about knick-pacers rivalry in those days. ECF, couple of seconds to go, Pacers down by 6. Reggie shoots a 3, steals the inbound pass, steps back and nails another three, unbelievable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtPaMgyz4ec
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Post#40 Re: The dilemma of Udoh's rebounding (or lack
Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:06 am by nenanena

udoh has more potential than sanders and plays under control. he has the third best +/- on the team after dunleavy and udrih.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus ... team=Bucks

he has the best post up game. the team is generally better with him on the court:
http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/team-v ... 2;season=r
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