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Hammond Comments: Boston Model?

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Post#91 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:44 pm by GHOSTofSIKMA

LUKE23 wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:he gave the return on ray allen, and the pick that became taj gibson to get them. go ahead and give the guy an award for his amazing lateral moves to fill out the roster if you want to. i know presti is a god to you. lets just move on.


I'm not the one saying crazy things here. Lets remember that you are a person that has lauded the work Hammond has done to ridiculous levels, even though we're well under .500 under his watch, and are now taking all the work Presti has done and basically boiling it all down to luck. I'm fine moving on, just stop saying ridiculous ****.


i was going to move on until you called what i say ridiculous sht. thats low man!

see you in the game thread. we win this then 5-2 and hammond for prez :wink:
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Post#92 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:46 pm by randy84

I think the big point that people are missing on this is that two different approaches were taken by the Thunder and the Celtics at the same time.

Thunder decided to blow it up and built through draft, Celtics decided to built a team by trading for veterans.
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Post#93 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:47 pm by GHOSTofSIKMA

joking about hammond btw... i like him alright but when i see him monday night im gonna lay into him a bit if i get the chance.
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Post#94 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:49 pm by GHOSTofSIKMA

randy84 wrote:I think the big point that people are missing on this is that two different approaches were taken by the Thunder and the Celtics at the same time.

Thunder decided to blow it up and built through draft, Celtics decided to built a team by trading for veterans.


thats been our biggest mistake. weve not tanked, and weve gone for 2nd rate vets by not offering players AND picks. weve been straddling the fence.
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Post#95 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:53 pm by DocHoliday

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:thats been our biggest mistake. weve not tanked, and weve gone for 2nd rate vets by not offering players AND picks. weve been straddling the fence.


You mean like giving the Bobcats the 7th pick in the draft AND Maggette for Jax and the 19th pick?
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Post#96 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:59 pm by GHOSTofSIKMA

DocHoliday wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:thats been our biggest mistake. weve not tanked, and weve gone for 2nd rate vets by not offering players AND picks. weve been straddling the fence.


You mean like giving the Bobcats the 7th pick in the draft AND Maggette for Jax and the 19th pick?


we could have gone bigger than that. we could have offered maggette/ #7/ ersan / and a future pick....or bogut/ #7...... go for a move the way houston did. get a bigtime player.

i dont think we offered enough and thats why we got back guys like jackson. jackson was trash but whats weird is he really wasnt just the year before. he was monta level just older.
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Post#97 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:05 pm by Baddy Chuck

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:jackson was trash but whats weird is he really wasnt just the year before. he was monta level just older.

He was a lot worse here but he was a ridiculously high usage player with bad shooting percetanges in Charlotte. There's a reason why guys like Maggette, Jackson, Monta etc can't replicate previous numbers with us, they can't play team basketball.
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Post#98 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:06 pm by CanadaBucks

DocHoliday wrote:You mean like giving the Bobcats the 7th pick in the draft AND Maggette for Jax and the 19th pick?

Was this not a three way trade? Because if it wasn't you would have to give him huge credit for turning Salmons and 10 into beno and 7 right? I think ina ll truth we never had 7, we essentially traded Salmons, maggette and 10 for Jax, Beno and 19. I'll agree that if he doesn't sign Maggette and Salmons this trade is not made but let's not leave out half of the picture
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Post#99 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:11 pm by bizarro

4xBuck wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:Besides drafting Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka, trading Green for Perkins, and trading a mid 20's 1st for an elite wing defender in Sefolosha, and amassing multiple 1sts wherever possible, I agree, Presti has done very little of significant impact.


No doubt OKC has done it the right way, also liking how Cleveland is doing it now.

But, OKC also got lucky, which is OK… If OKC gets Beasley rather than Durant, they’re no better than Denver & Utah- two other teams doing it right but not lucky enough to land a franchise player.


I think this is another feather in the cap of OKC and it is also a testament to getting the right pick in the right draft. If you look at who Cleveland has drafted beyond Kyrie - who like Durant was the unanimous choice in their slot - they've reached in a draft with sub-par talent. OKC wisely selected Westbrook and Harden. Yes, as Sigra pointed out, they could have drafted Love who is a complete stud BUT then they lack an elite PG.

Thompson was and is a reach. Though it was a weaker draft, they could have potentially traded back and/or selected a different player. Who that player is, well, it's a tough sell. Do you really select Leonard @ 4 or Klay Thompson...potentially, Valenciunas. Waiter was a complete reach. Though he has had a couple nice shooting nights I really don't like his game alongside Kyrie. I would have preferred any one of Lillard, Drummond, Ross or Barnes at that slot.

I think, in the end, OKC was wise with their picks AND they had the picks in quality drafts AND they had a bit of luck...for example, in 2009 Memphis selected Thabeet :o
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Post#100 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:19 pm by DocHoliday

CanadaBucks wrote:
DocHoliday wrote:You mean like giving the Bobcats the 7th pick in the draft AND Maggette for Jax and the 19th pick?

Was this not a three way trade? Because if it wasn't you would have to give him huge credit for turning Salmons and 10 into beno and 7 right? I think ina ll truth we never had 7, we essentially traded Salmons, maggette and 10 for Jax, Beno and 19. I'll agree that if he doesn't sign Maggette and Salmons this trade is not made but let's not leave out half of the picture

It didn't need to be a 3 way trade, and yes the trade of Salmons+10 for Beno+7 was an AMAZING trade, which makes the trade with the Bobcats look like even more of a colossal failure. The potential of Tobias is really the only thing that keeps it from being a complete bust. Also we didn't sign Maggette, that was another Hammond trade bust.
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Post#101 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:24 pm by CanadaBucks

DocHoliday wrote:
CanadaBucks wrote:
DocHoliday wrote:You mean like giving the Bobcats the 7th pick in the draft AND Maggette for Jax and the 19th pick?

Was this not a three way trade? Because if it wasn't you would have to give him huge credit for turning Salmons and 10 into beno and 7 right? I think ina ll truth we never had 7, we essentially traded Salmons, maggette and 10 for Jax, Beno and 19. I'll agree that if he doesn't sign Maggette and Salmons this trade is not made but let's not leave out half of the picture

It didn't need to be a 3 way trade, and yes the trade of Salmons+10 for Beno+7 was an AMAZING trade, which makes the trade with the Bobcats look like even more of a colossal failure. The potential of Tobias is really the only thing that keeps it from being a complete bust. Also we didn't sign Maggette, that was another Hammond trade bust.


My bad, I do remember the deal...Gadz and Bell for Maggette.
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Post#102 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:29 pm by paulpressey25

JayMKE wrote:What evidence of Hammond's 'basketball smarts' are there other than his decent drafting?


That interview snippet sounds like Hammond trying to say that I've sucked for five years because my owner wants me to win now and win later. He's auditioning for his next job, realizing that others in the league will read that interview but probably not Kohl.

The problem I have is that he really did a bad job of trying to "win now" for years. He completely misunderstood the salary cap ramifications of trades early on and boxed us in big time. Nor was he creative in initiating trades as most everything "presented itself" to him. He wasted mid level assets like crazy and each year brought in a crappy overpaid wing. And he never acquired a good backup center save for inadvertently lucking into Kurt Thomas for one year as a salary throw in when he needed to jettison his guy RJ.

So now that the win around Redd and Bogut plan that he was a core architect of went down in flames he's looking to claim it went down because he wasn't allowed to tank, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless you want to load a straw man in there for your future job.

His potential saving grace is that maybe he's on to something here with the current team. I've been pretty happy with his moves since the Bogut trade.
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Post#103 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:32 pm by CanadaBucks

paulpressey25 wrote:
JayMKE wrote:What evidence of Hammond's 'basketball smarts' are there other than his decent drafting?


That interview snippet sounds like Hammond trying to say that I've sucked for five years because my owner wants me to win now and win later. He's auditioning for his next job, realizing that others in the league will read that interview but probably not Kohl.

The problem I have is that he really did a bad job of trying to "win now" for years. He completely misunderstood the salary cap ramifications of trades early on and boxed us in big time. Nor was he creative in initiating trades as most everything "presented itself" to him. He wasted mid level assets like crazy and each year brought in a crappy overpaid wing. And he never acquired a good backup center save for inadvertently lucking into Kurt Thomas for one year as a salary throw in when he needed to jettison his guy RJ.

So now that the win around Redd and Bogut plan that he was a core architect of went down in flames he's looking to claim it went down because he wasn't allowed to tank, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless you want to load a straw man in there for your future job.

His potential saving grace is that maybe he's on to something here with the current team. I've been pretty happy with his moves since the Bogut trade.

When my other team's GM is Bryan Colangelo, Hammond looks a lot better than he really is.
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Post#104 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:37 pm by MilBucksBackOnTop06

CanadaBucks wrote:OKC got soaked in that deal though. Allen and Big Baby for West, Sczerbiak and Jeff Green plus a 2nd whose name I can't remember. That's almost a worse fleecing than the Bucks got when trading Allen.

No they didn't. Every deal they made....worked. Wally was flipped and they traded Green to and got something later on. The second pick could have been Eric Maynor too.

They didn't get fleeced.

If Hammond wanted to do it right he would not have made all those trades 3 years and get all those second round picks and then sell them and lose them. Those were assets he blew.

He did flip Alexander, Hobson, Gallon, and sold Jordan and wasted Meeks....there is your assets right there. You can't have it both ways.

Some teams can rebuild in a weak conference like the Pacers and Sixers and STILL WIN if you scout well and know what you are doing and use yoru players right and have vision in seeing the league is going small.

No way in the world in the weak ass East you should not have built a solid winner by now with all the picks we had. Hammond always thinks that you will automatically LOSE just because you are going young and then he pancis and tries to outsmart himself and us by bringing in bad contracts and scrub vets who take time from his young players getting better.

Once you got Jennings and were handing him the keys from day 1 EVERYTHING SHOULD HAVE CHANGED when you knew Redd was coming off the books and Bogut couldn't stay healthy. But the Bucks waited too long when teams like OKC Memphis, Philly, and the Pacers were pro-active.

Never waste time with plodding Centers who do not expand their games. NEVER draft a Center #1 overall just because he is a 7 footer...Never. They abandoned their plan and brought in stop gaps Maggette, Salmons, and Stackhouse, and Gooden, and others too early!

It doesn't take "luck" it takes VISION and a Plan, and Purposeful Perserverance. Do one or the other. Do not do what he says here: "

"The projection for our team going into the season is, if they don't have us as a playoff team, they have us right at the cusp of being in the playoffs. So we're still trying to serve two masters, to be honest with you.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Post#105 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:39 pm by MilBucksBackOnTop06

No n
CanadaBucks wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:
JayMKE wrote:What evidence of Hammond's 'basketball smarts' are there other than his decent drafting?


That interview snippet sounds like Hammond trying to say that I've sucked for five years because my owner wants me to win now and win later. He's auditioning for his next job, realizing that others in the league will read that interview but probably not Kohl.

The problem I have is that he really did a bad job of trying to "win now" for years. He completely misunderstood the salary cap ramifications of trades early on and boxed us in big time. Nor was he creative in initiating trades as most everything "presented itself" to him. He wasted mid level assets like crazy and each year brought in a crappy overpaid wing. And he never acquired a good backup center save for inadvertently lucking into Kurt Thomas for one year as a salary throw in when he needed to jettison his guy RJ.

So now that the win around Redd and Bogut plan that he was a core architect of went down in flames he's looking to claim it went down because he wasn't allowed to tank, which doesn't make a lot of sense. Unless you want to load a straw man in there for your future job.

His potential saving grace is that maybe he's on to something here with the current team. I've been pretty happy with his moves since the Bogut trade.

When my other team's GM is Bryan Colangelo, Hammond looks a lot better than he really is.

No no no no no....you dont know what you are saying. THE ONLY REASON....the Raptors are not better is because they couldn't or did not trade Chris Bosh when they could have got something for him.

That is the ONLY reason. But he was a big wuss and would not committ because he knew he was going to bolt at the end of the year to stack in Miami or New York.

They should have traded him them...but didin't. That was their mistake. He Bosh was better then Bogut so they could have got more for him and been set up pretty nice.
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Post#106 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:24 pm by GHOSTofSIKMA

Baddy Chuck wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:jackson was trash but whats weird is he really wasnt just the year before. he was monta level just older.

He was a lot worse here but he was a ridiculously high usage player with bad shooting percetanges in Charlotte. There's a reason why guys like Maggette, Jackson, Monta etc can't replicate previous numbers with us, they can't play team basketball.


i dont think it has anything to do with not playing team basketball.....

i will give you the older player being expected to regress argument tho. i also just think its indicative of a typical 30 something acting the part of the old dog coming to milwaukee to die as well. its just weird how salmons, maggette, and jackson all fell off a damn CLIFF once they got here. salmons case makes it difficult to assume the system was at fault.... it makes you look more at the perspective of the player changing being the cause.

so its either skiles, the lockerroom or the city..... we had 3 guys who produced including one guy who produced here.... who basically overnight became some of the worst players at their position in the league over the course of a single offseason. its been uncanny.
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Post#107 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:56 pm by MilBucksBackOnTop06

Boston model? Where is our tradition and 4 Hall of Famers to draw others? Sometimes Hammond seems like he is in waaaaay over his head on some ways.
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Post#108 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:45 pm by Baddy Chuck

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:jackson was trash but whats weird is he really wasnt just the year before. he was monta level just older.

He was a lot worse here but he was a ridiculously high usage player with bad shooting percetanges in Charlotte. There's a reason why guys like Maggette, Jackson, Monta etc can't replicate previous numbers with us, they can't play team basketball.


i dont think it has anything to do with not playing team basketball.....

i will give you the older player being expected to regress argument tho. i also just think its indicative of a typical 30 something acting the part of the old dog coming to milwaukee to die as well. its just weird how salmons, maggette, and jackson all fell off a damn CLIFF once they got here. salmons case makes it difficult to assume the system was at fault.... it makes you look more at the perspective of the player changing being the cause.

so its either skiles, the lockerroom or the city..... we had 3 guys who produced including one guy who produced here.... who basically overnight became some of the worst players at their position in the league over the course of a single offseason. its been uncanny.

Those guys were always 1 on 1 players who played in playground systems before they got here and when they couldn't get the same amount of opportunities to raise their FG% and PPG they reverted to what they are, worthless on the court.

Salmons flourished in a broken Sacramento system and then played for a contract here, Maggette flourished in Golden State's broken system but even their fans knew it was all empty stats, Jackson is the same in GS and Charlotte.

Monta is a much better player then those three guys so he still looks solid but he's nowhere near the same player without the broken system.

I think everyone without blinders on could have seen all the outcomes that happened with the players discussed besides Salmons' superstar contract performance.
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Post#109 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:14 pm by coolhandluke121

Sounds like the assh*le finally started reading realGM.
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Post#110 Re: Hammond Comments: Boston Model?
Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:57 pm by raferfenix

Is it possible that Hammond is being a bit more literal here, in terms of preparing our fans for a 'Boston model' style trade?

Not that any of these comparisons should be made, but let's try to get inside Herb Kohl's head for a second.

If our goal is to pick up 3 all star caliber players, could the Kohl brain-trust view picking up Ellis alongside Jennings to be akin to the Celtics pairing Allen with Pierce, and then us picking up a guy like Pau Gasol as being like the Garnett trade?

This scenario would require us to not be sending out Ellis in a Gasol deal, but that isn't necessarily inconceivable, particularly if the Lakers really value Ersan as a long term shooter to put next to Howard.
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