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paul wrote:

paulpressey25 wrote:Pacer fans melting down at this thread.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread. ... s-Postgame

Fire the coach, tank, Hibbert a bum now that he got paid, trade West for Monta, etc. We can't win with Granger injured. It all sounds oh so familiar.

Hibbert 9 games in is putting up 8/8 at 38% from the field and 40% from the line in 30mpg. Saying he's been a bum this season is a MASSIVE understatement, I'd have to do a little research but he might have been the worst established starter in the league so far.

If he doesn't turn it around like instantly they are in big trouble.

You must be overlooking our own Ersan Illy.

Max Green wrote:@ MIA
vs. CHI
@ CHI
vs. NYK

Man, that's a brutal stretch. I'd be really happy finishing 2-2.

Brutal? Miami obviously but both Chicago (without Rose) and New York are extremely beatable. I'm hoping for 2-2 out of that, 1-3 would be very disappointing, 0-4 obviously horrible.

I was just looking at our schedule for the real 'brutal' stretch and honestly it never really comes, March would seem to be our toughest month but it's nice not to have the horror run we've had a few times the last few years. Hopefully we can be way in front of .500 when we get there.

Steve210 wrote:............. 5-2 is WAY TOO EARLY to get too excited, but it's not too early to be cautiously optimistic about the season. Let's enjoy this good start, and hope they can keep things rolling!
................

its never to early to get way over excited bro

paul wrote:

Max Green wrote:@ MIA
vs. CHI
@ CHI
vs. NYK

Man, that's a brutal stretch. I'd be really happy finishing 2-2.

Brutal? Miami obviously but both Chicago (without Rose) and New York are extremely beatable. I'm hoping for 2-2 out of that, 1-3 would be very disappointing, 0-4 obviously horrible.

I was just looking at our schedule for the real 'brutal' stretch and honestly it never really comes, March would seem to be our toughest month but it's nice not to have the horror run we've had a few times the last few years. Hopefully we can be way in front of .500 when we get there.

We haven't beat Chicago since the 09/10 season, they are still very good and own us with or without Rose. New York is the second best team in the East and awesome defensively. Playing the 4 games in a row against the top 3 teams in the East with one of them being the defending champs and the best team in the league qualifies as brutal us.

New York really, really aren't the second best team in the East. Not imo anyway. It's a tougher stretch of games for sure.

paul wrote:New York really, really aren't the second best team in the East. Not imo anyway. It's a tougher stretch of games for sure.

I'm torn on them. I really do think guys like Kidd and Wallace are way underrated at this point in their careers. On a team that just needed veterans to be good "glue guys" I think they are going to continue to make a bigger difference for them than the box score might indicate. I always love when great players find ways to continue to help their teams win even when they're WAY past their prime. And Chandler needs to get a little more credit as well. He's arguably their most important player.

I really think guys like Smith, Melo, and Amare get vastly over-rated most of the time, but they are unquestionably very talented and with the right supporting cast they can go places. Although I think it's a disservice to call them the stars and the other guys the supporting cast when the team needs all of them equally.

Isn't Chandler fresh off a DPOY? I think he's adequately credited.

At any rate, 2nd best team in the East is pretty much up for grabs. If it ain't the Knicks, who is it? The next three candidates are Brooklyn, Boston, and US.

emunney wrote:Isn't Chandler fresh off a DPOY? I think he's adequately credited.

Yes, but DPOY is credit for defense and defense in general is under-appreciated. Doesn't Chandler make about half of what Melo and Amare each make? That's absurd.

coolhandluke121 wrote:

paul wrote:New York really, really aren't the second best team in the East. Not imo anyway. It's a tougher stretch of games for sure.

I'm torn on them. I really do think guys like Kidd and Wallace are way underrated at this point in their careers. On a team that just needed veterans to be good "glue guys" I think they are going to continue to make a bigger difference for them than the box score might indicate. I always love when great players find ways to continue to help their teams win even when they're WAY past their prime. And Chandler needs to get a little more credit as well. He's arguably their most important player.

I really think guys like Smith, Melo, and Amare get vastly over-rated most of the time, but they are unquestionably very talented and with the right supporting cast they can go places. Although I think it's a disservice to call them the stars and the other guys the supporting cast when the team needs all of them equally.

A large part of their early chemistry is due to A'mare being out imo without question, it removes one of the more horrible two star 'fits' in the NBA. As to Chandler I'm with em, he's been credited and then some.
I don't think there was ever a doubt that Kidd would help them, he was tbh exactly the kind of influence that team needed, it must be a hugely refreshing change to have that presence rather than the usual A'mare vs Melo slap fight on who can shoot the most.

So far they've really only beaten Miami (which is impressive), other than that they've had the currently pretty awful Philly twice, a struggling Dallas and the very bad Magic. 5-0 is great, but it's a soft 5-0, if they win tonight and tomorrow night then they've really got something going.

The roster composition is light years better than the debacle of the last couple of seasons I agree and A'mare being out shouldn't be underestimated (as a positive, not a negative), but there's no way I can have them above Boston. They shake out somewhere with Brooklyn, Chicago, Us, Indiana and Philly (if either of them can get going).

Man the East is crap, I'd have them fighting for the 7-8 in the West, they might be a 2-4 seed in the East.

coolhandluke121 wrote:

emunney wrote:Isn't Chandler fresh off a DPOY? I think he's adequately credited.

Yes, but DPOY is credit for defense and defense in general is under-appreciated. Doesn't Chandler make about half of what Melo and Amare each make? That's absurd.

The fact that A'mare and Melo are both drastically overpaid doesn't make Chandler underpaid that's for sure. He's making $14m per for the next 3 years, that's huge money for a guy who really only got going two seasons ago.

paul wrote:

coolhandluke121 wrote:

emunney wrote:Isn't Chandler fresh off a DPOY? I think he's adequately credited.

Yes, but DPOY is credit for defense and defense in general is under-appreciated. Doesn't Chandler make about half of what Melo and Amare each make? That's absurd.

The fact that A'mare and Melo are both drastically overpaid doesn't make Chandler underpaid that's for sure. He's making $14m per for the next 3 years, that's huge money for a guy who really only got going two seasons ago.

He's under-appreciated compared to Melo and Amare. That's all I'm saying. If they lost Amare for a season, they wouldn't worse at all. If they lost Melo for a season, they wouldn't be all that much worse either if Amare was healthy. But if they lost Chandler, they would struggle mightily.

until mam gets back.....the biggest hole on our team is a defensive wing stopper. im dreading the idea of tobias, dunleavy, or daniels trying to check carmelo and lebron. if we had mam against pierce and gay we get one of those games back even with the cold offense those nights.

i call 1-3 over that tough 4 gamer coming up. were gonna lose to miami and ny(unless we get hot as hell)... and probably split with chicago. once mam comes back its a different story.

LUKE23 wrote:Also, I will say, I'm not a fan of Ellis, but it has more to do with his shot selection than anything. If we can maintain a top 10 defense with him (which I didn't think was possible heading into the season, but now I think may be due to the defense of the frontcourt), he's not a huge liability if he can reign his shot selection even a little. He does allow us to do two things:

1. Play at the fastest pace in the league when paired with Jennings
2. Makes us a pretty heavy ball movement team (even with bad shot selection) due to his above average passing ability at the SG slot (24.3 team APG)

The biggest issue to me is getting more shots for guys like Dunleavy and Harris, which somewhat falls on Jennings/Ellis, but also somewhat falls on Skiles.

If we are going to move him, which I'm 100% for especially if he's going to opt out, I'd be looking for a young piece or pick over just a high efficiency shooter who doesn't bring anything else (see Morrow).

Agree with a lot of this.

We all know Monta is inefficient, but expecting that we could plug in Doron Lamb or even Morrow makes our already mediocre offense that much worse is just wrong in my opinion.

I know its a broken record, but if Monta could lose the :19 second 19 footers, he would be a reasonale asset to the team, contract notwithstanding.

The current Pacers remind me a lot of the Bucks of 2 years ago: just awful on offense. Monta's ability to get to the basket helps facilitate a lot of the offense.

Trading Monta without a decent offensive guy at the 2 guard puts the Bucks close to the Pacers offensively.

gbmb34 wrote:I know its a broken record, but if Monta could lose the :19 second 19 footers, he would be a reasonale asset to the team, contract notwithstanding.

I wish Monta would embrace his inner Derrick Rose. Just attack the basket relentlessly in the pick and roll and pass when it isn't there. No 360 layups, no heat check jumpers from 20 feet, no turnaround 18 footers with 15 seconds left on the shot clock.

He has the talent and physical ability to be a very efficient player, it is and always has been mental with him.

ampd wrote:

gbmb34 wrote:I know its a broken record, but if Monta could lose the :19 second 19 footers, he would be a reasonale asset to the team, contract notwithstanding.

I wish Monta would embrace his inner Derrick Rose. Just attack the basket relentlessly in the pick and roll and pass when it isn't there. No 360 layups, no heat check jumpers from 20 feet, no turnaround 18 footers with 15 seconds left on the shot clock.

He has the talent and physical ability to be a very efficient player, it is and always has been mental with him.

Wishing for that is completely the right thing to wish for, and is guaranteed to lead to heartache.

I hate Monta as a player, I mean sincerely hate the way he plays and have for 5 years which is well documented, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have both A) a sh*t load of ability and B) some real positive aspects to his game.

The problem with Monta, as will Skiles, Hammond, Jennings, etc in their own right - is that his constant negatives outweigh or at least equally weigh his positives. He couldn't give a crap about defense other than his flashy steals for dunks, he has a ridiculous love for the long 2, he absolutely kills his team at times with his horrendous shot selection particularly early in shot clocks, he gets caught in the air forcing a bad pass at least 3-4 times a game and so on and so forth.

If he could bring more of the positives and less of the negatives he'd be a huge net positive, still not my favorite type of player stylistically but whatever, the problem is people have been saying that for 5 years, and why would he when he gets so well rewarded for being me first and the gimme gimme's?

As with most of my most disliked players around the league I dislike him so much because if he used half his brain he could be so much better. Sadly after this long hoping for that to happen is unlikely to be rewarded.

paul wrote:

ampd wrote:

gbmb34 wrote:I know its a broken record, but if Monta could lose the :19 second 19 footers, he would be a reasonale asset to the team, contract notwithstanding.

I wish Monta would embrace his inner Derrick Rose. Just attack the basket relentlessly in the pick and roll and pass when it isn't there. No 360 layups, no heat check jumpers from 20 feet, no turnaround 18 footers with 15 seconds left on the shot clock.

He has the talent and physical ability to be a very efficient player, it is and always has been mental with him.

Wishing for that is completely the right thing to wish for, and is guaranteed to lead to heartache.

Yeah, its true.

Great to see the Bucks of to this start,even though the Pacers played awfully I really feel our defence early in the first led by Jennings and Monta set the pace, each game we have someone who steps up and on this occasion it was Sammy D. I remember there were a few threads at the beginning of the season about how people thought the Bucks would be painful to watch,hopefully those people are starting to come around.