OT: Barkley Says Bogut Done

[randy84]

Although, they lose the coin flip and Barnes is a Utah player.

[AussieBuck]

Although, they lose the coin flip and Barnes is a Utah player.

That is so brutal for Utah if they don't get a decent pick this year from the Warriors. They'll all be sawing off the feet of their Bogut and Curry voodoo dolls.

[randy84]

Although, I wonder if Utah would have went with Drummond with that pick?

[AussieBuck]

Although, I wonder if Utah would have went with Drummond with that pick?

So they could have three lotto bigs on their bench? It's better balance to have two wings and two bigs there.

[El Duderino]

So our new stance on Monta is "he's pretty awful currently but he makes others better"?

As his ppg numbers continue to rise so will the various defenses of him. It is what it is.

I have zero desire at all to see Monta getting an extension and he certainly wasn't the main piece i hoped for in a Bogut trade. I also see the flaws which drive so many of us crazy here, but i do think at times some here mainly just look at Monta's negatives. His passing ability at SG and quickness teamed with Brandon can cause defenses problems, especially in games when one or both aren't having those say 6-18 from the field type of shooting games.

So while of course the Bucks won't ever have a chance to be 50 plus win/top 3-4 seed in the East with a Monta/Jennings backcourt, i have found myself being surprisingly entertained by this team so far and with decent health this year, i do see the Bucks ended up being a better and more fun to watch team than i expected.

[Baddy Chuck]

So while of course the Bucks won't ever have a chance to be 50 plus win/top 3-4 seed in the East with a Monta/Jennings backcourt, i have found myself being surprisingly entertained by this team so far and with decent health this year, i do see the Bucks ended up being a better and more fun to watch team than i expected.

We're Golden State East. We're probably going to put up a fun and probably rather successful season (compared to our last few), but the sustainability just won't be there. That's my biggest thing. As you said, I think resigning Monta and continuing this experiment would be a mistake and as thankful as I am, I don't think Monta would want to even stay here unless we make him an offer he couldn't refuse. That means either we are going to completely waste an asset like Monta for (likely) one playoff appearance, or be stuck with him and consequently a much harder path to move forward as a team.

[paul]

I don't disagree El Dude, might as well enjoy the ride while it lasts.

[paul]

So while of course the Bucks won't ever have a chance to be 50 plus win/top 3-4 seed in the East with a Monta/Jennings backcourt, i have found myself being surprisingly entertained by this team so far and with decent health this year, i do see the Bucks ended up being a better and more fun to watch team than i expected.

We're Golden State East. We're probably going to put up a fun and probably rather successful season (compared to our last few), but the sustainability just won't be there. That's my biggest thing. As you said, I think resigning Monta and continuing this experiment would be a mistake and as thankful as I am, I don't think Monta would want to even stay here unless we make him an offer he couldn't refuse. That means either we are going to completely waste an asset like Monta for (likely) one playoff appearance, or be stuck with him and consequently a much harder path to move forward as a team.

If we are anywhere near .500 at the deadline I can't see us trading Monta and given what we gave for him they won't want to let him walk for no return. It all adds up to a likely huge payday imo, sadly.

[Baddy Chuck]

If we are anywhere near .500 I can't see us trading Monta and given what we gave for him they won't want to let him walk for no return. It all adds up to a likely huge payday imo, sadly.

Yeah, it could get ugly.

We'd probably be looking at at least $25 million for the swagrific back court duo.

That will put us at probably only MLE type money (before our draft picks) to replace/resign Beno, Dunleavy and Dalembert.

I can think of a lot better ways to spend $10-15 million over a likely 4-5 years then an inefficient, turnover prone, defensive liability.

[Wise1]

Bogut could of been a contributor on any contending team in the league while most competent GMs wouldn't touch Monta with a 10 foot pole.

I'm not sure any GM in the league touches Bogut with a ten foot pole. Or would give up any asset package even half of what we got from Golden State.

This. I laugh when I read some thinking the Bucks could have gotten a significantly better deal for "the Bogut asset". The Bucks made out like bandits in this deal and its showing in the W-L column.

Bogut's deal had to be dumped before he became a completely worthless asset in the Drew Gooden mold. Drew makes too much money to sit on the bench where he belongs. Now imagine Bogut's money sitting on the bench or in some parts unknown. This team wouild be in awful shape had we kept Bogut around.

[Rockmaninoff]

Going forward, would you guys rather have Ellis or Redick? Neither is obviously an option, but if you had to choose, which would it be. Keep in mind that Redick is in the final year of his contract, and will likely get more than the MLE on his next deal.

[paulpressey25]

Nah, and Barnes. They win one more game and Barnes is a Utah player today - or whoever. Depending on your view on Udoh it's entirely possible they still like the new package over the old even if they never get another game out of Bogut.

Ok...now you've got it. Barnes was really good last night, wasn't he?

For the Bucks, their two high water marks under Kohl were 46 wins in 2010 and 52-30 in 2001.

Plenty of time for the wheels to come off this season, but it is plausible they have the potential to challenge the 50-win mark this season, partly because it would appear they absolutely crushed the Warriors on that trade.

But, if the Bucks do have a 50-win season, it will be based partly on hard to repeat chemistry and partly on guys like Jennings, Monta, Sanders, Udrih, and Udoh having career years to get paid next summer. Heck even Skiles and Hammond are in a year to get paid for them. All of this makes it completely unsustainable.

Thus our problem won't be that trade. This trade is a huge win for us already. Our long-term problem will be because we didn't tank during the perfect year to do it (deep draft and fans didn't care because of the short strike season)

Our future is John Henson. If he's as good as Barnes, then no problem. But if Barnes is a long-term borderline all-star player, then we once again took defeat from the jaws of victory, since we could have dealt Bogut and gotten Barnes (or Drummond) last year. Or even gotten up into the top three to get Davis, Beal or MKG.

[unklchuk]

Like a glacier afloat, I'm slowly beginning to turn on the Bogut trade. I con't accept that Bogut is "done," but he might have on-going problems. I'm growing in appreciation for Ellis. I see effort and application, and have a growing feel for how he makes good things happen even when he's not high efficiency. (BTW, don't know if this is said here, but one of the regulars at BrewHoop says that watching Ellis run down the court on offense has predictive value. If Ellis is out in front, the poster says good things will happen for Jennings and our offense. If he's just jogging in the Bucks crowd, then things don't open up.)

It was useful to read the J-S story on Udoh last night. He frankly admits that it bothered him to be traded, and didn't know what there was for him here. But says he's feeling more and more a part of this situation. I always worry that we trade for folks regardless of whether they'll want to be here. Sounds like Udoh doesn't fit that category, now. I still need to watch him more carefully to appreciate his contribution on defense. Pretty subtle stuff that he does. And, seemingly, the situations where I see him doing nothing to react to penetration must be situations where nothing practical can be done. Perhaps because a teammate missed something.

[JayMKE]

Bogut could of been a contributor on any contending team in the league while most competent GMs wouldn't touch Monta with a 10 foot pole.

I'm not sure any GM in the league touches Bogut with a ten foot pole. Or would give up any asset package even half of what we got from Golden State.

This. I laugh when I read some thinking the Bucks could have gotten a significantly better deal for "the Bogut asset". The Bucks made out like bandits in this deal and its showing in the W-L column.

Bogut's deal had to be dumped before he became a completely worthless asset in the Drew Gooden mold. Drew makes too much money to sit on the bench where he belongs. Now imagine Bogut's money sitting on the bench or in some parts unknown. This team wouild be in awful shape had we kept Bogut around.

If this trade was 'making out like bandits' then I don't even want to see what you guys think would be a bad trade.

[paulpressey25]

If this trade was 'making out like bandits' then I don't even want to see what you guys think would be a bad trade.

Take a look at Brad Millers stats since the start of the 2006 season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/556/brad-miller

This may be the type of player Bogut now has become for the second half of his career. Do you want to be paying $13 and $14 million a year for that?

Or would you rather get out from underneath $37 million in contracts (Bogut and Jackson) while adding Udoh and Monta?

If Bogut turns it around with the special German Orthokine lube job on his ankle, then great. But if he doesn't then I think I might rather take a hopefully healthy and younger Udoh by himself over a health unreliable 2012 version of Bogut.

Until people can wrap their heads around the fact that we didn't trade the younger, healthier 2010 FTD version of Bogut, I realize this trade will still be problematic for some.

[Kerb Hohl]

I don't think you should be comparing Bogut to Brad Miller. Brad Miller, while maybe equally as much of an injury concern, had an outside jumper to provide value over his career. If Bogut is fully healthy and in his prime, he's probably more of a force than Miller, but I'm not sure I'd take Bogut in any way until he gets that right because he can't shoot the jumper in lieu of his inability to bang inside.

[paulpressey25]

I don't think you should be comparing Bogut to Brad Miller. Brad Miller, while maybe equally as much of an injury concern, had an outside jumper to provide value over his career.

I think prime Brad Miller was a better player than Bogut's career so far to date. More reliable and more dimensions to his game. And Miller will have a longer career because of the jump shot you reference.

I was just trying though to find a comparable center in the current era who fell off the production from his prime but hung around in the league for a number of years even though he wasn't always healthy. A guy who was a useful but not impactful center the second half of his career.

[randy84]

The trade may have been a "win-win" for both teams. Not because of the players that were exchanged, but because of the addition by subtraction. Monta was blocking Klay's development so they really didn't have a need for him. The Bucks were always depending on Bogut being healthy and playing a full season which he never was able to do.

GSW has moved on and the Bucks have moved on and it is looking good, at the moment, for both.

[cellomac1212]

The trade may have been a "win-win" for both teams. Not because of the players that were exchanged, but because of the addition by subtraction. Monta was blocking Klay's development so they really didn't have a need for him. The Bucks were always depending on Bogut being healthy and playing a full season which he never was able to do.

GSW has moved on and the Bucks have moved on and it is looking good, at the moment, for both.

Good post... Very agreeable...

[ampd]

I don't think we are Golden State east. Sure we have the same small backcourt problem they did, but the similarities really end there. For one, we have been much much better than Golden State ever was with Monta on defense. Golden state the last few seasons was 29th,26th, 26th in defensive efficiency. We are currently 5th.