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Hornets/Bucks Postgame

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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#61 » by paulpressey25 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:45 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Through 8:

O: 12th (105.3)
D: 8th (101.5)
Pace: 1st (95.9)
Expected W-L: 9th (.646, 53-29 over full season)
RPI: 6th (.559)
SOS: 12th (.496)
SRS: 8th (2.31)

Jennings up to 17.5 ppg @ .540 TS, with 8.0 assists and 3.3 steals.


Thanks for always posting these. These metrics are good and tend to lend credence to our record being sustainable.

The only stat still strong but not quite as strong is our Dif of +3.6 which is 9th in the league. Would like that to be a +5 or more. That said, I can remember other years where we had strong starts and our Dif was negative, which indicated we were winning some fluke games.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#62 » by EastSideBucksFan » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:54 pm

Ayt wrote:
Balls2TheWalls wrote:Man, when Ellis decides he wants to take the ball to the hoop, he is really hard to defend.


The team shoudl institute a rule that he gets punched in the nuts after every game for every long jumper he takes that isn't at the end of the shot clock or an open spot up jumper. There is no reason why he should ever take off the dribble jumpers under other conditions.



I agree I want to see his shot percentage swing more towards driving the lane.

But Monta nailed back to back jumpers that basically iced the game.

The paint was pretty much shut down for most of the night with Unibrow locking it up.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#63 » by LUKE23 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:00 pm

Agreed. PPG differential is one thing I always look at to see if everything is sustainable.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#64 » by Badgerlander » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:03 pm

I don't think that you can take away Monta's long jumper, it's part of his game, but I would put together a reel of his misses that have been long breaks that have led to fast break points and tell him he better be the first one down the court defending it.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#65 » by Licensed to Il » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:05 pm

A couple of random observations:

Ryan Anderson stuck his head in and exaggerated on the elbow called on Larry. Larry got his revenge at the end of the game when Anderson went in for the dunk. What were you thinking Ryan? Play of the game by Larry

Brandon played well and under control, save for one or two rushed three point attempts that didn't have a chance

Ersan still does not have his rainbow three falling, but he defended, rebounded, screened, and finished at the rim a couple times. I am still confident he will work his way back to last season's form

Monta can get in the paint at will. His two deep 2s at the end of the game were sketchy decisions, but he attacked the rim throughout the third and fourth quarters, loosened the D, and set up our bigs (who are not gonna create offense on their own

The Brow's three point play in the last two minutes seemed questionable, I will never understand the block/charge call when the defender is moving. Its impossible to discern, totally subjective


All in all, a really fun game to watch. The key to sustaining this to me, is Monta and Brandon getting big assist numbers. Udoh, Sanders, Fat Face Sam, Henson... these are not guys that are going to create any offense. But if our guards can set them up in the lane for east shots, our overall offense efficiency will be sufficient. Our pace and our defensive length and our depth make this a really fun team to watch. I also love how this faster pace forces Skiles to kind of sit down and let things play out and not micro manage. He is not coasting, but he is not micro managing, which is a good thing.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#66 » by Chapter29 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:44 pm

Baddy Chuck wrote:We looked really good.

Monta looked great early passing but fell to the long twos later in the game. Fortunatly at the end they fell.

Brandon IMO was the clear POG. We clearly played our best ball by far when he was in and the +/- proved it.


The +/- delta for Monta was because he was in with the 2nd unit that lost a big lead once if not twice. He was on the floor with no offensive threat other than himself. He was out there with Beno, Daniels, etc. Just couldn't score and lost the lead. I hate the +/- stat and tonight is a great example as to why. Ellis played a pretty good game if you ask me and was easily one of the main reasons we won the game. They should really ISO him more when he in on the floor with the 2nd unit and our team offense sputters.

No question however that Jennings was fantastic and Dunleavy and Sanders had big impact.

This team is very fun to watch and I cannot wait for Henson to push Dalembert out of the starting line up outside of big body matchups. I can honestly see Udoh (whom I think works well with Sanders) getting squeezed out too, by either Henson or Sanders if he can earn more PT by getting less ticky tack fouls. Sanders is by far and above our best FC player right now and only his fouls keep him from getting 30 plus minutes.

For this team to succeed we needed several things to fall into place.

We needed Jennings to take a step. He has and will likely earn a big contract. Win win for the Bucks and Jennings.

We needed Ellis to perform within the offense and be more efficient. I think he has clearly done the former, but the latter still requires some more effort/coaching. He is an outstanding offensive talent and is almost impossible to guard when he ISO's. Just wish he would take less unbalanced shots.

We needed at least one, better yet two of Sanders, Udoh, Harris or Henson to be an impact player. Well Sanders has taken a couple of steps and is just that for us, Harris and Udoh look to be effective rotation players and Henson still looks very promising.

We needed the team to buy into Skiles in general being a lame duck coach who appeared to have wanted out. Check. You wouldn't know by how this team is responding and how he is coaching that there was ever a concern. Defensively we are rotating and helping each other and the balance of rim protection to a gambling backcourt is working well. Bogut who? Offensively the team leads the league in assists so his sharing offense is working well and I think we lead the league in pace too, which is perfect for this group.

Quite a few things are falling into place for this relatively low talent team coming into this season. It looks like a ton of crow may be eaten around here. Our tiny backcourt is working. Ellis isn't someone you just cut and in fact is quite a good player and is helping this team win. Skiles isn't a moron and somehow figured out that Gooden isn't a good long term solution for this team. Maybe just maybe Hammond isn't a moron either. At just 8 games in still a work in progress, but so far so good.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#67 » by unklchuk » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:31 pm

^ Thanks for the good post
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#68 » by jeremyd236 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:47 pm

The crazy thing about this game is Dalembert, Henson, Ersan, and Harris looked pretty good in the first half, but hardly got any playing time in the 2nd half. Dunleavy, Udoh, and Sanders looked just as good. With our depth, guys can be playing great and still not be needed on the court.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#69 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:37 pm

jeremyd236 wrote:The crazy thing about this game is Dalembert, Henson, Ersan, and Harris looked pretty good in the first half, but hardly got any playing time in the 2nd half. Dunleavy, Udoh, and Sanders looked just as good. With our depth, guys can be playing great and still not be needed on the court.


this is a good thing considering how many free agents we have looming this offseason. nobody on this team is going to have us over a barrel.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#70 » by Balls2TheWalls » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:41 pm

Chapter29 wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:We looked really good.

Monta looked great early passing but fell to the long twos later in the game. Fortunatly at the end they fell.

Brandon IMO was the clear POG. We clearly played our best ball by far when he was in and the +/- proved it.


The +/- delta for Monta was because he was in with the 2nd unit that lost a big lead once if not twice. He was on the floor with no offensive threat other than himself. He was out there with Beno, Daniels, etc. Just couldn't score and lost the lead. I hate the +/- stat and tonight is a great example as to why. Ellis played a pretty good game if you ask me and was easily one of the main reasons we won the game. They should really ISO him more when he in on the floor with the 2nd unit and our team offense sputters.



This is pretty much where the difference in +/- lies. Beno turned on the extra stink. It is like he had stink cologne on. He couldn't run the offense at all, and he continues to be an extremely subpar point guard. He hits shots, but they are shots he should not be taking. He looks like they just taught him how to dribble and pass the basketball 15 minutes before the game. The 2nd unit just looked like total garbage. It would make a lot more sense for Henson to be in that unit because he could take some of the defensive efforts away from Dunleavy and Ellis who are getting absolutely overplayed in the 2 man game because no one respects Sanders, Udoh, or Beno.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#71 » by jr lucosa » Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:48 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:I agree I want to see his shot percentage swing more towards driving the lane.

But Monta nailed back to back jumpers that basically iced the game


This is what I hate about Monta. He takes awful jumpers, then every few games he gets them going and thinks it's actually a good shot for him, but man they are hideous shots. Almost half the time he shoots I'm screaming at my TV/computer watching the shots he takes, I couldn't imagine how it is being his teammate when he goes into full out swag mode like that. For the game that the jumpers are actually dropping it's probably fun. For the 4 or 5 games in between it's probably hell.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#72 » by paulpressey25 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:01 pm

Other great moments from last night......

On Larry's great block, he kept the ball in play and then snatched the rebound on it away from Ersan.

Buddha put up a 15/8 line with one great block in only 20 minutes. Whether he starts or not is sort of irrelevant since Larry finishes. We'd need 20 minutes of backup center anyways. To get this type of production from our "backup" center is pretty good.

Dunleavy with 9 rebounds. He seems to have found his home in our up tempo game.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#73 » by aboveAverage » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:21 pm

Does anyone else really like the dual PG we have going on? It seems like Jennings and Ellis switch off PG every play, and it really confuses the other team. They both seem to enjoy sharing the responsibilities as well, which I didn't expect.

Ellis is adding an interesting spark to our team. I like it. Jennings has been more than solid out there. We have a nice squad building in terms of chemistry and young talent. I'm pretty excited.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#74 » by ampd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:51 pm

aboveAverage wrote:Does anyone else really like the dual PG we have going on?


I think we have seen a blueprint for how it can work and be very effective.

When both of them are creating for others and playing to their strengths offensively you can really see the plan. When Monta is doing his Derrick Rose impersonation routine and looking to pass, and Jennings is using his quickness to get to the rim and finding his teammates, we look very good offensively and our bigs that can't create their own shot look extremely effective. To the extent that Monta is just using his athleticism to free himself for long jumpers and Jennings is over dribbling to set up his shots, it won't work.

There are some encouraging signs though. Monta is trying hard defensively for maybe the first time in his career, for example.

The one thing missing is that they still haven't found ways for Monta / Jennings to create for each other in the half court rather than the other 3 guys. I think we saw that a bit the last couple games with Monta driving and dishing to Jennings at the 3 point line. If they can develop some chemistry that way, and find some ways for Jennings to make Monta better, I could buy into it.

How far we can go with this team is going to depend on Jennings ability to get more consistent and Monta's ability to stay a team player and reign in his shot selection. Monta's splits since he joined the team have shown that when he is only looking to score, we lose. He's pretty much the opposite of BJ, whose good games usually mean a win.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#75 » by Nebula1 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:53 pm

I thought the 'Larry' chant late in the game was a good moment.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#76 » by ampd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:56 pm

Nebula1 wrote:I thought the 'Larry' chant late in the game was a good moment.


He has such an impact on the game defensively. Hopefully over time he learns to cut out the pointless off ball fouls that are the cause of his foul problems.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#77 » by jeremyd236 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:06 pm

ampd wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:I thought the 'Larry' chant late in the game was a good moment.


He has such an impact on the game defensively. Hopefully over time he learns to cut out the pointless off ball fouls that are the cause of his foul problems.


There were a few times when he was so concerned about getting the block on the help defense, he ignored boxing his guy out (and they got the rebound and scored). I think it happened twice in the 4th quarter by my count.

I love his defense and energy, but sometimes you've got to box your guy out.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#78 » by ampd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:13 pm

jeremyd236 wrote:
ampd wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:I thought the 'Larry' chant late in the game was a good moment.


He has such an impact on the game defensively. Hopefully over time he learns to cut out the pointless off ball fouls that are the cause of his foul problems.


There were a few times when he was so concerned about getting the block on the help defense, he ignored boxing his guy out (and they got the rebound and scored). I think it happened twice in the 4th quarter by my count.

I love his defense and energy, but sometimes you've got to box your guy out.


Better to give up a potential offensive rebound than a layup. We have been the best defensive rebounding team in the NBA by a significant margin (with Larry playing the most minutes of anyone at C), so its hard for me to classify this as a real problem right now.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#79 » by jeremyd236 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:26 pm

ampd wrote:
Better to give up a potential offensive rebound than a layup. We have been the best defensive rebounding team in the NBA by a significant margin (with Larry playing the most minutes of anyone at C), so its hard for me to classify this as a real problem right now.


He didn't get the block though. He tried to get it through help defense (not his guy), missed the block, and his guy had a wide open layup or putback. As our center, if he completely leaves his guy to go try to block a shot on a guy he's not defending, the paint is wide open for an offensive board. I don't understand how that could be better. It's not like these were wide open layups.

Edit: I'm not saying it's a "problem". It's something to be aware of. Defense has always and will always be a team concept. We tend to focus on big blocks, etc. when thinking of defense, however I look at it in the aggregate. I'd rather have a well-contested shot leading to a missed FG and a defensive rebound. The block on Anderson at the end was huge, but Anderson also had 2 wide open put-backs caused by the same thing.
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Re: Hornets/Bucks Postgame 

Post#80 » by ampd » Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:35 pm

Help defense always involves leaving your guy. Its on someone else to get that rebound if it doesn't go Larry's way, or on the wing player to stop the penetration before Larry has to help. You can't just let guys attempt shots at the rim because you are worried about not getting the rebound. We saw how effective that was last season when Gooden did it literally every time someone drove the basket, and it was a complete disaster.

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