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Post#31 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:10 pm by ReasonablySober

Suns could do a lot better.
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Post#32 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:11 pm by LUKE23

DrugBust wrote:Suns could do a lot better.


If their goal is to get young talent for Gortat, then I highly doubt it.
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Post#33 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:11 pm by jeremyd236

I wouldn't like that deal at all, but what's the point in including Marshall and either Henson or Harris? We don't need another PG on this roster. If we HAD to do a trade like that, I'd rather leave Marshall and Harris out. Or I'd rather trade for a guy like Al Jefferson, who could be bought at a very low price compared to Gortat. But honestly, we shouldn't trade anyone until we start losing games.
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Post#34 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:13 pm by paul

DrugBust wrote:Suns could do a lot better.


I don't honestly believe that, but if I'm the Suns GM I'm trading Gortat yesterday.
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Post#35 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:17 pm by VooDoo7

H-E double hockey sticks NO!

Can't even put into words how pissed I'd be if we did this.
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Post#36 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:31 pm by ReasonablySober

LUKE23 wrote:
DrugBust wrote:Suns could do a lot better.


If their goal is to get young talent for Gortat, then I highly doubt it.


Dude, I like both Henson and Tobes, but let's look at this without the Bucks covered glasses.

Kendall Marshall was taken #13, Henson was taken #14. Neither has done anything. At best they're a wash.

So now you're talking Harris and Gooden (a huge negative) for a guy who's been one of the best centers in the entire league for the last three years and is still two years shy of 30.

I like Tobes, but the fact is he's a SF that has never been known for defense and still hasn't proven anything on offense.

And that's the package for a bargain productive center for the next two years? If Hammond could get that he'd make the deal yesterday.

For the record, I don't really care either way. We're not beating the Heat with Gortat so why not stick with Tobes and Henson?

On the other hand, Gortat is easily the best trade chip among Henson, Tobes and whoever else you want to throw into the mix and if the Bucks wanted to move him on draft night or a year and a half from now they may be able to get a better player than Tobes or Henson.

Basically I'm saying unless Tobes or Henson become really good this would be a steal for Milwaukee.
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Post#37 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:36 pm by paul

DrugBust wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:
DrugBust wrote:Suns could do a lot better.


If their goal is to get young talent for Gortat, then I highly doubt it.


So now you're talking Harris and Gooden (a huge negative) for a guy who's been one of the best centers in the entire league for the last three years and is still two years shy of 30.


Except that neither of those things are completely accurate. He's 3 months from turning 29, and without Nash handing him points he's been not very impressive.

It's too early to judge Marshall, but he's been absolutely turrible since landing in Pheonix. Henson has been night and day more impressive of the two so far.
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Post#38 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:37 pm by LUKE23

Gortat hasn't really been that great this year, so I don't really agree with this lavish illustration of his game. Lets see how he plays without Nash spoon feeding him dunks all year, so far he's an 11/10 guy at league average TS on a team that plays no defense. And if the argument on Henson vs. Marshall is just draft position, I can't really agree with that. I didn't want Marshall in the top 20, for very obvious reasons. Just because Phoenix made a horrible draft decision doesn't mean him and Henson are a wash. If you polled NBA GM's today on Henson vs. Marshall, who is more desirable?

This deal wouldn't make the Bucks better this year given their current roster and the fact they have a GREAT defensive frontcourt, and they sacrifice future assets. It's about as no brainer of a "no" as it gets for Milwaukee.
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Post#39 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:41 pm by LUKE23

The Suns are last in the league in defense currently. I don't care what the supporting cast is, if Gortat is really that impactful defensively, that isn't happening. Right now, Sanders and Udoh are both better defenders and Gortat isn't a good enough offensive player to really make him a huge asset there. Without Nash he's like a 11-13 ppg league average efficiency player.

I also disagree Harris hasn't proven anything on offense. He's proven that in the usage he does get, he's extremely efficient. He's proven he can score from many different spots. Would I like to see if he can handle more of a scoring load? Of course, but in the load he has gotten he's been impressive. Obviously, defensively he has a ton of work to do but so do most 20 year olds.
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Post#40 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:44 pm by paul

LUKE23 wrote:The Suns are last in the league in defense currently. I don't care what the supporting cast is, if Gortat is really that impactful defensively, that isn't happening.


He's not.

Right now, Sanders and Udoh are both better defenders and Gortat isn't a good enough offensive player to really make him a huge asset there.


They are.

Without Nash he's like a 11-13 ppg league average efficiency player.


Closer to 10 than 13 imo and wouldn't be at all surprised to see his TS dip below average if Dragic can't figure out how to get him wide open 15 footers or dunks.
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Post#41 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:49 pm by ampd

No to Gortat for all the reasons mentioned. We finally have a good cap situation with youth that looks like it is developing AND we are winning games... We have very little incentive to deal guys like Harris and Henson in a speculative win now trade.
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Post#42 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:54 pm by Matches Malone

Gortat with Nash = Superman

Gortat without Nash = Skid marks
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Post#43 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:57 pm by paul

Just to highlight exactly how much Nash inflated Gortat's value - a staggering 80% of Gortat's baskets last season were assisted. 80%.

I've never seen a figure even remotely close to that, by way of comparison Bogut scored almost the same amount of ppg for us during FTD and was assisted on 52% of his baskets. Hell DeAndre Jordan who can barely dribble unassisted was assited on less than 70% of his buckets last season.

Like I said, I've never seen a figure like it.
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Post#44 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:17 pm by blazza18

No thanks.
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Post#45 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:21 pm by ampd

paul wrote:Just to highlight exactly how much Nash inflated Gortat's value - a staggering 80% of Gortat's baskets last season were assisted. 80%.


Wow.
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Post#46 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:24 pm by Newz

Gortat is a good NBA player and a legit starter center... which aren't easy to come by.

As I stated previously I think this trade is pretty fair value wise. I just don't think that in the Bucks position that it's a good deal. We are very solid at the center position and Gortat doesn't really make us any better/make us a "higher tier" team.
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Post#47 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:29 pm by humanrefutation

I'll do Gortat for Henson and Gooden.
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Post#48 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:30 pm by LUKE23

humanrefutation wrote:I'll do Gortat for Henson and Gooden.


No. Just amnesty Gooden this summer.
Jim Paschke ‏@Paschketball 6 Apr
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Post#49 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:32 pm by humanrefutation

LUKE23 wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:I'll do Gortat for Henson and Gooden.


No. Just amnesty Gooden this summer.


That might be preferable, but I don't think we're using the amnesty.
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Post#50 Re: Hollinger rumors/speculation
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:33 pm by LUKE23

I think we could this summer, especially since Gooden is now clearly out of the rotation. Either way, I wouldn't move Henson for 150 games of Gortat. Basically because we just don't need him given our frontcourt and I want to keep any kind of talented youth, since we control their FA, for the most part.
Jim Paschke ‏@Paschketball 6 Apr
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