RealGM

Two things,

1) why would this post get locked?

2) If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

DWagner85 wrote: If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

I think the consensus is that we need a steadier starting SG. Someone even just solid, who plays good D and can shoot the 3.

In terms of what we could get for him, some sort of package deal for Pau Gasol is the dream trade given Herb Kohl's demand that we win now.

It doesn't solve our SG issues, but gives us a lot more options.

I'd like to see what Ellis could do as a starting pg with good shooters surrounding him. I really, really don't want to see the Bucks pay Jennings this summer, so that's a factor too. I don't know who the long-term pg would be, but my preference for making this team better right now and making something out of this team's potential would be to trade Jennings + sweetener for a guy like Eric Gordon or maybe Jennings/Gooden for Afflalo + sweetener.

DWagner85 wrote:Two things,

1) why would this post get locked?

2) If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

The reason it would get locked is that there is a thread about possible trades for Monta already. Some on the board say they would trade Monta for anything although I suspect that's a bit of hyperbole.

What's the point of IBTL?

I view it as the same as guys who post FIRST!

Makes no sense to me

Good question

CanadaBucks wrote:

DWagner85 wrote:Two things,

1) why would this post get locked?

2) If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

The reason it would get locked is that there is a thread about possible trades for Monta already. Some on the board say they would trade Monta for anything although I suspect that's a bit of hyperbole.

What's the point of IBTL?

I view it as the same as guys who post FIRST!

Makes no sense to me

Good question

If you read my topic Heading, my post is a VIEW on Monta Ellis, and then................ The teams trade deadline goal in your eyes. Some of you hate Monta Ellis so much you fail to read the second part of the heading because you just want to get your hate on.

trwi7 wrote:Nice of you to join the board, Dajuan Wagner. I can understand why you would be a fan of Monta Ellis.

Dammit I was gonna post that the moment I saw the OP.

There is no way I'd want Ellis starting at PG. His handle is too weak and I want my PG to be able to shoot the 3. He'd average 5 TO per game easy as a PG IMO getting the minutes he normally does. He'd have to go against quicker defenders every night.

People keep saying they want a "solid SG who can play decent D and shoot the 3"....well...we had that guy...his name was Carlos Delfino....and before him...we had Charlie Bell.....Monta is infinitely more talented than any SG we've had since Ray Allen.....if we can just get others on the team going, Monta wont' shoot as much and our offensive efficiency will rise....it's all about using him correctly and getting other guys on the team in a rhythm.

I don't hate Monta at all, I just want him to cut down on the long 2's.

His defense isn't that much of a problem with Moute back now and our bigs blocking shots the way they are.

EastSideBucksFan wrote:People keep saying they want a "solid SG who can play decent D and shoot the 3"....well...we had that guy...his name was Carlos Delfino....and before him...we had Charlie Bell.....Monta is infinitely more talented than any SG we've had since Ray Allen.....if we can just get others on the team going, Monta wont' shoot as much and our offensive efficiency will rise....it's all about using him correctly and getting other guys on the team in a rhythm.

I don't hate Monta at all, I just want him to cut down on the long 2's.

His defense isn't that much of a problem with Moute back now and our bigs blocking shots the way they are.

Delfino and Bell both had good runs here, but then their games fell below solid.

Marquis Daniels is having a similar effect now, but not sure how he qualifies in this department either.

The key is what kind of player we need next to Jennings. Ellis is more talented than all these guys, but if he doens't play smarter, he won't supercede the kind of solid role player we need next to our highly erratic PG.

Ellis probably gets more hate than he deserves, he is what he is. On the one hand you can see really good passing instincts and feel for his team mates, the kind that great point guards have, but immediately following that 3 consecutive possessions with deep 2's don't go in. You are then left wondering why he just can't limit the jumpers to the keeping the defense honest variety and play that drive and dish game he is so so good at. But that's just it, he been in the league long enough and had coaches come and go that had to come to that same realization and he hasn't reigned himself in. Things don't have to change much it seems so easy, but its fools gold.

Still I can accept him as is, if he weren't paired with another guy who has shot selection issues. Jennings doesn't finish like Ellis and is probably less likely to draw a foul and hasn't shown me as much in pure pg play. You see flashes of a drive and dish game but then its gone for games on end without even a hint that it was there. I personally don't get it at this stage in his career. Perhaps I need to accept that its not changing. Jennings is a passable 3pt shooter bringing his numbers up, but for his volume there are still lots or bad choices.

The team needs to then make some big decisions about these two, assuming they have a feel for what Montas plans are they need to make a choice and more forward with one of these guys or none but not both. Which is sort of a bummer since you would want a stable management team in place to plan around the decision and since Hammond and Skiles have a year remaining as well obviously that's not happening. I really thought I would choose Jennings but I need to see some real consistency develop in the PG department if its going to be him. Monta needs to be the point if its going to be him, something he has never bought into throughout his career as a full time gig.

EastSideBucksFan wrote:People keep saying they want a "solid SG who can play decent D and shoot the 3"....well...we had that guy...his name was Carlos Delfino....and before him...we had Charlie Bell.....Monta is infinitely more talented than any SG we've had since Ray Allen.....if we can just get others on the team going, Monta wont' shoot as much and our offensive efficiency will rise....it's all about using him correctly and getting other guys on the team in a rhythm.

I don't hate Monta at all, I just want him to cut down on the long 2's.

His defense isn't that much of a problem with Moute back now and our bigs blocking shots the way they are.

this post sums up my thoughts regarding monta too. monta is at his worst when he feels like he has to be the man. hes does pretty damn good when hes just fitting in.

DWagner85 wrote:

CanadaBucks wrote:

DWagner85 wrote:Two things,

1) why would this post get locked?

2) If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

The reason it would get locked is that there is a thread about possible trades for Monta already. Some on the board say they would trade Monta for anything although I suspect that's a bit of hyperbole.

What's the point of IBTL?

I view it as the same as guys who post FIRST!

Makes no sense to me

Good question

If you read my topic Heading, my post is a VIEW on Monta Ellis, and then................ The teams trade deadline goal in your eyes. Some of you hate Monta Ellis so much you fail to read the second part of the heading because you just want to get your hate on.

Hey, I am not arguing with you, while I think BJ and Monta do not co-exist really well I am not in the camp that would trade Ellis for any offer. I we're winning I am fine with it.

DWagner85 wrote:Two things,

1) why would this post get locked?

2) If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

Gasol & Meeks is at the top of my list, I wouldn't mind guys like Afflalo etc... Another guy I would take that the majority probably disagrees with is Al Jefferson.

DWagner85 wrote:Honestly, I am a big fan of Monta Ellis. I cannot seem to understand the hatred that goes toward him.

He is a great scorer

Here's why you're confused, Monta isn't anything close to a great scorer. If he was a great scorer it would be odd that people hate him. He's an idiot who talks 10.5 jump shots a game and makes about 30% of them.

EastSideBucksFan wrote:People keep saying they want a "solid SG who can play decent D and shoot the 3"....well...we had that guy...his name was Carlos Delfino....and before him...we had Charlie Bell.....Monta is infinitely more talented than any SG we've had since Ray Allen.....if we can just get others on the team going, Monta wont' shoot as much and our offensive efficiency will rise....it's all about using him correctly and getting other guys on the team in a rhythm.

I don't hate Monta at all, I just want him to cut down on the long 2's.

His defense isn't that much of a problem with Moute back now and our bigs blocking shots the way they are.

That is my exact stance with Monta, he shoots because he has too, when others are rolling, he is almost too generous of a passer, giving up the rock when he himself has an open lane to the hoop. As I stated earlier I think the issue is chemistry and the fact this team is 3-15 heavy with guys that are 5th-7th men on a team. Trade some of the depth for upgrades, such as Post Scoring, or possibly a pure defensive minded backup SG for when we face the Nets of the world that will exploit Monta's height.

DWagner85 wrote: Trade some of the depth for upgrades, such as Post Scoring, or possibly a pure defensive minded backup SG for when we face the Nets of the world that will exploit Monta's height.

I'd be more encouraged about Monta if we retained him while making a trade for Gasol or the like. I'm just not sure that's in the cards.

If we had a very strong backup SG, or better yet if Monta were willing to come off the bench, I'd be more comfortable keeping him for another year or two as well.

Max Green wrote:

DWagner85 wrote:Two things,

1) why would this post get locked?

2) If everyone is in consensus that Ellis must go, what do you want in return for him?

Gasol & Meeks is at the top of my list, I wouldn't mind guys like Afflalo etc... Another guy I would take that the majority probably disagrees with is Al Jefferson.

I would be a big fan of trying to acquire Afflalo from the Magic. I do feel the Magic would be willing to deal him away for some cap relief, and would wager that Dunleavey and Dalembert would be enough to get Afflalo on the team.

Having Afflalo as the 6th man behind Jennings and Ellis would be the perfect brew. And at some point, maybe, just maybe, Skiles can reel Ellis in, and make him see that being a 6th man is very important for a winning team, and we can roll with Jennings, Afflalo, Moute, Ersan, and Sanders, with Ellis as the 6th man. Besides the Heat, and possibly the Knicks, would there really be another team in the East, sans the Bulls with Rose, that would beat the Bucks?

I'm a big fan of this level headed discussion regarding Monta instead of reading 1000 posts of "he sucks".

EastSideBucksFan wrote:People keep saying they want a "solid SG who can play decent D and shoot the 3"....well...we had that guy...his name was Carlos Delfino....and before him...we had Charlie Bell.....

Oh come on, nobody is calling for a guy at their level to replace Monta......

Monta is a woefully inefficient player who can go on passing spurts at time but can just as easily turn the ball over. He is an awful decision maker with the ball and is an awful man defender.

Can't wait for the day that he leaves this team.

Like someone else said a while back, Ellis, to me, is like Redd. If we simply removed Ellis from this roster, and replaced him with Doron Lamb or Dunleavy in the starting lineup, we would be a better basketball team.

You're fooled by his pre-moped success, or his 19-20 PPG average, which Paschke likes to shove down our throats. The Bucks need to ship Ellis out before the deadline.