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View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal.

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DWagner85
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#61 » by DWagner85 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:54 pm

So, Ellis is a terrible passer, yada yada, but as our primary SCORER, he is averaging 0.4 assists less then Jennings, who is the player we typically have running the offense and making the pass to the shooter. Ellis knows how to make others around him better. When it is just Ellis on the court, our team flourishes, when it is Jennings and Ellis our team flounders, and when it is just Jennings our team gives up and pouts.

I vote for Ellis as the PG, trade Jennings for a solid SG like Afflalo and a draft pick.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#62 » by SpursNBucks » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:56 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:
-Jragon- wrote:I'd rather keep Monta as PG and get rid of Jennings (if Ellis would extend). I love how he passes in the pick and roll giving guys a chance with the ball moving to the rack. Jennings gets guys jumpers which only helps if they can HIT them. Ellis seems to know who to get the ball and where they can be successful when he gets a chance to bring it up (5-10 min per game). He quickly develops rapport with guys and plays off of them. We've seen games where he had Dalembert getting dunks and little layups and recently Luc was playing really well off of him. We rarely see Jennings even try to work with someone that well. He passes more as a last resort when he realizes he isn't going to be able to score or to get someone else the ball with a chance to make a good pass.


While Jennings is no Nash or Rondo, the notion that Monta is a better point guard is ludicrous.


I don't know if he is/would be a better PG, but a point he makes here is valid. Monta does a better job of setting up players for easy layups then Jennings. The things is I thing he would turn the ball over at a higher rate and isn't quite the ball handler Jennings is by any stretch. He does however get the ball into the post for easy baskets much better then Jennings- he did it again last night with Moute.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#63 » by jakecronus8 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:56 pm

DWagner85 wrote:So, Ellis is a terrible passer, yada yada, but as our primary SCORER, he is averaging 0.4 assists less then Jennings, who is the player we typically have running the offense and making the pass to the shooter. Ellis knows how to make others around him better. When it is just Ellis on the court, our team flourishes, when it is Jennings and Ellis our team flounders, and when it is just Jennings our team gives up and pouts.

I vote for Ellis as the PG, trade Jennings for a solid SG like Afflalo and a draft pick.


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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#64 » by raferfenix » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:57 pm

Or we could trade both Jennings and Ellis.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#65 » by jakecronus8 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:57 pm

raferfenix wrote:Or we could trade both Jennings and Ellis.


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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#66 » by LUKE23 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:59 pm

DWagner85 wrote:So, Ellis is a terrible passer, yada yada, but as our primary SCORER, he is averaging 0.4 assists less then Jennings, who is the player we typically have running the offense and making the pass to the shooter. Ellis knows how to make others around him better. When it is just Ellis on the court, our team flourishes, when it is Jennings and Ellis our team flounders, and when it is just Jennings our team gives up and pouts.

I vote for Ellis as the PG, trade Jennings for a solid SG like Afflalo and a draft pick.


The offense actually is only slightly better (.5 points per 100 possessions) better with Ellis on the floor vs. off. With Jennings, it's 3.2 points per 100 possessions better with him on the court vs. off. Both have terrible defensive splits. But it's not like the offense goes into tank when he's on the floor.

Ellis is not a PG. His handle is really loose. He'd be a turnover machine at PG. Playing against slower defenders every night has helped him with the TO issues and he's still managing more than Brandon even though Brandon is going against quicker defenders.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#67 » by DWagner85 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:02 pm

While Jennings is no Nash or Rondo, the notion that Monta is a better point guard is ludicrous.


I don't know if he is/would be a better PG, but a point he makes here is valid. Monta does a better job of setting up players for easy layups then Jennings. The things is I thing he would turn the ball over at a higher rate and isn't quite the ball handler Jennings is by any stretch. He does however get the ball into the post for easy baskets much better then Jennings- he did it again last night with Moute.


It is very rare for people to actually notice this, rather than acknowledge the many times good/great things happen due to Ellis, Wisconsin fans as a whole, only recognize mistakes. That is no winning attitude.

A second reason dealing Jennings at the deadline over Ellis would be more logical is because quite frankly, Jennings trade market will be higher due to his age alone. But the fact he pouts about every no call, rather than hustling makes me sick. Cannot stand seeing pro athletes who are given the world whine like that.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#68 » by JimmyTheKid » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:02 pm

DanoMac wrote:Like someone else said a while back, Ellis, to me, is like Redd. If we simply removed Ellis from this roster, and replaced him with Doron Lamb or Dunleavy in the starting lineup, we would be a better basketball team.


No we wouldn't. I almost want Monta to tweak an ankle for a week so this comes to fruition. We would be beyond dreadful offensively. For a number of reasons.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#69 » by DWagner85 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:04 pm

raferfenix wrote:Or we could trade both Jennings and Ellis.


That would likely put us in a much deeper whole in terms of making the playoffs, it would wipe out any chemistry this team has built, and destroy the moral of fan support and the other teammates.

This team is going to be a 4-6 seed this season. They are 11-9 and had a 10/10 Home/Away split. They are .5 game out of the division lead, and after the Knicks and Heat, there is truly no other team in the East that is locked in ahead of the Bucks.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#70 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:04 pm

I'm far from sold on Jennings going forward. I would trade him if the right deal came around. I would much prefer a better player at point guard then him, he's rounding out to be just another inefficient 20 points like Monta is.

With that said, he is 100x the ball handler Monta is (something important at the point) and even though he isn't good himself, is a better decision maker. Monta may be the better passer, and as we saw against the Kings he can exploit ATROCIOUS defenses but any halfway respectable team can easily negate his passing.

Monta just isn't a point guard. At all.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#71 » by JimmyTheKid » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:05 pm

DWagner85 wrote:So, Ellis is a terrible passer, yada yada, but as our primary SCORER, he is averaging 0.4 assists less then Jennings, who is the player we typically have running the offense and making the pass to the shooter. Ellis knows how to make others around him better. When it is just Ellis on the court, our team flourishes, when it is Jennings and Ellis our team flounders, and when it is just Jennings our team gives up and pouts.

I vote for Ellis as the PG, trade Jennings for a solid SG like Afflalo and a draft pick.


I was with you until this post.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#72 » by LUKE23 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:07 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:
No we wouldn't. I almost want Monta to tweak an ankle for a week so this comes to fruition. We would be beyond dreadful offensively. For a number of reasons.


We'd be better offensively if Dunleavy started and Harris got more touches. Guaranteed. Lamb, probably not right now. But this team is 20th in offense right now, so not even average. A ton of that has to do with us using over 50% of our possessions on inefficient shooting. It's also why we have very little hope of getting to 15th or above. It would basically take Jennings and/or Ellis completely revamping their games, which isn't going to happen.
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Re: View on Monta Ellis, and trade deadline goal. 

Post#73 » by MickeyDavis » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:08 pm

Long existing Ellis thread here

viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1216373
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.

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