Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
Just for the record, if we could trade Ellis for prime Redd at 18 million I would do that too.
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
I wouldn't view this as change for change sake. This would be acquiring a player who has proven he can perform at a high level and directly addresses a glaring team need (half-court ISO scorer). The contract is unsightly but if the Bucks are trying to "win now," he's the best type of player they could reasonably hope to acquire in all probability. I'd rather have Gay than Pau Gasol, for example (not saying Pau's a realistic target).
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
ampd wrote:Just for the record, if we could trade Ellis for prime Redd at 18 million I would do that too.
Absolutely. Put prime Redd on this team and you're looking at 45-50 win potential. Redd in his prime would be an enormous boost for this team.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
Europa, I like Pau better for three reasons.
a) His contract is only through next year
b) We need post scoring as much as we need iso wing scoring
c) Pau at one time was a top 5 or at worst top 10 player. He's still got a few great moments in him. I don't see Gay as anything better than top 50.
As I said, give me something else here from Memphis. Make it Ellis and Gooden for Gay and Wroten or something like that.
The hard part with all our discussions is that any move the Bucks make should be done with a GM they know will be here a long time and as part of a long-term plan. But that is never the case under Kohl, so we are left with these shiny toy moves that never end up working.
a) His contract is only through next year
b) We need post scoring as much as we need iso wing scoring
c) Pau at one time was a top 5 or at worst top 10 player. He's still got a few great moments in him. I don't see Gay as anything better than top 50.
As I said, give me something else here from Memphis. Make it Ellis and Gooden for Gay and Wroten or something like that.
The hard part with all our discussions is that any move the Bucks make should be done with a GM they know will be here a long time and as part of a long-term plan. But that is never the case under Kohl, so we are left with these shiny toy moves that never end up working.
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
I actually don't think Rudy is being used optimally in Memphis at the moment. A lot of his possessions come as a spot up 3 point shooter or late in the shot clock because of how much they post up Randolph / Gasol. That is almost surely not how we would use him
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
Gay's decline in efficiency is concerning as I said but he's only 26 so I think it's very possible, if not probable, that he improves at least back to prior norms. Gasol is 31 and I worry that he's on his last legs as an impact NBA player. His contract is more palatable but I'd rather pursue the younger player who hopefully can be a part of this team for the next few seasons at least.
As I've said before, Gasol fits the Kohl MO perfectly, though. Aging, clearly in decline but has big name recognition. He could be the new Moses Malone.
As I've said before, Gasol fits the Kohl MO perfectly, though. Aging, clearly in decline but has big name recognition. He could be the new Moses Malone.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
Gay is much closer to Ellis than he is to Redd
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
I have always liked Rudy Gay. I would certainly make an offer. I look at it like this, we are almost always going to have to pay a premium for any good player here. Probably near the peak type of player that wouldn't refuse to play here in a trade. So an overpaid Gay isn't that big of a deal. I think he's in that Redd caliber player, but is a better defender and more of an all around type player. Oh and not crippled.
Ellis and Lamb is a deal. But they have to even out the salaries. Take on Gooden and I am in.
Then we need to make a deal for a SG of course, but you keep Daniels starting and Dunleavy can take the rest for now. I'd prefer to start Dunleavy at the position but Skiles wont.
Bottom line is this, right now Ellis is our best player and that isn't very good. I know many will say Sanders, but really?? He is a young core player, but if Sanders is your best player you're in big trouble. He's our most exciting currently. Gay is a much better player than Ellis is.
Ellis and Lamb is a deal. But they have to even out the salaries. Take on Gooden and I am in.
Then we need to make a deal for a SG of course, but you keep Daniels starting and Dunleavy can take the rest for now. I'd prefer to start Dunleavy at the position but Skiles wont.
Bottom line is this, right now Ellis is our best player and that isn't very good. I know many will say Sanders, but really?? He is a young core player, but if Sanders is your best player you're in big trouble. He's our most exciting currently. Gay is a much better player than Ellis is.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
This trade deadline is going to be so interesting with a lame duck GM. Does he make any moves for the future knowing he could be on the street in April? Does Kohl let him add any long term salary while he's (reportedly) trying to sell the team (again)?
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
16,460,538
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19,317,326
No thanks. Not a chance.
17,888,932
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No thanks. Not a chance.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
I know people like to throw Gooden's name into trades to clear him, but I don't see him as a big problem anymore. If Skiles continues to use him minimally or not at all, he's no worse than Danny G with his $6 mil/yr salary we were carrying.
Gooden seems to be a "good soldier" on the bench and not a malcontent (a la Stephen Jackson/Maggette).
Gooden seems to be a "good soldier" on the bench and not a malcontent (a la Stephen Jackson/Maggette).
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
SkilesTheLimit wrote:I know people like to throw Gooden's name into trades to clear him, but I don't see him as a big problem anymore. If Skiles continues to use him minimally or not at all, he's no worse than Danny G with his $6 mil/yr salary we were carrying.
Gooden seems to be a "good soldier" on the bench and not a malcontent (a la Stephen Jackson/Maggette).
I agree. I'd dump his contract today if possible but I don't view it as a major area of concern since Skiles generally has been smart enough not to play him this season.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
SkilesTheLimit wrote:I know people like to throw Gooden's name into trades to clear him
Understood.
But in this case, we need to clear him if we acquire Gay. Gay will be sopping up even more money next year and the year after than Redd did. If Gay can't perform at prior levels or is injured, we're back to square one with salary cap pressures and an inability to add new players or reward players who take the leap like Larry Sanders.
For me, we'd absolutely have to jettison that $6.7 million owed to Gooden to take on Gay's salary and the risk that comes with it.
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
Gay makes to much money and isn't good enough on his on to justify his contract. If we could also make a deal for someone like Pau or MIllsap to go a long with Gay then I would be all for it. If we could get him for Ellis/Gooden then I would do it, and then go after Mayo in the offseason.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
Too many $$$$.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
The only way I'm trading for Rudy Gay is if there is another trade in the works. A trade centered around Ellis/Gay leaves us in the same predicament the Bucks are currently in. Two wishful all-star players who have inefficiency problems. I think we would still be an honest 6-8 seed team for the next 2-3 years. No thank you.
Now, say if you could pull a trade off of Ellis/Lamb/Gooden for Gay/Wroten and follow up with a trade of Ersan/Dalembert for Pau Gasol or maybe pry away someone like Wesley Matthews, I'm in. Obviously those trades could use some tinkering, but you get the idea. At this point, I just want a direction, and getting two of these players at least says we are going all-in to winning in the playoffs. Realistically, it's second-round team in the East, with a slim hope of ECF, but its better than the last 10 years of the same garbage. Sanders/Gasol/Moute/Gay/Jennings gives me some hope of being a top 4 seed in the East.
Again, my dreams are to trade Ellis and Jennings for youth and picks in a rebuild direction, but if the Bucks aren't smart enough to take that approach, at least make some big moves that aren't exactly smart moves, especially financially or even for the future, but give us a chance to win consistently now. If you aren't gonna successfully build for the future then at least try to do something real to win now.
Now, say if you could pull a trade off of Ellis/Lamb/Gooden for Gay/Wroten and follow up with a trade of Ersan/Dalembert for Pau Gasol or maybe pry away someone like Wesley Matthews, I'm in. Obviously those trades could use some tinkering, but you get the idea. At this point, I just want a direction, and getting two of these players at least says we are going all-in to winning in the playoffs. Realistically, it's second-round team in the East, with a slim hope of ECF, but its better than the last 10 years of the same garbage. Sanders/Gasol/Moute/Gay/Jennings gives me some hope of being a top 4 seed in the East.
Again, my dreams are to trade Ellis and Jennings for youth and picks in a rebuild direction, but if the Bucks aren't smart enough to take that approach, at least make some big moves that aren't exactly smart moves, especially financially or even for the future, but give us a chance to win consistently now. If you aren't gonna successfully build for the future then at least try to do something real to win now.
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
So for those saying no, is the problem Rudy Gay the player (e.g. declining, bad fit, etc) and/or the contract?
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
N8Frog wrote:So for those saying no, is the problem Rudy Gay the player (e.g. declining, bad fit, etc) and/or the contract?
Both, for me. He's not that efficient. And that's really the only type of player I'd target. I'd easily target Eric Gordon first, if they were looking to move him.
Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
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Re: Grantland: Bucks "Sensible" Team To Pursue Rudy Gay
I like where your heads at, CombackRay34.
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