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Trades for the Bucks to blow it up

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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#241 » by coolhandluke121 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:32 pm

Ersan is worth it to a team that needs him, not worth it to a team that needs to rebuild. It's as simple as that.

I'm not quite sure where the Bucks are, but I like some of their young players despite the fact that none of them are stars. So I would be inclined to keep him. There's no chance of a legit rebuild anyway, but there is hope for a deep, talented, balanced team if they just trade one of their young bigs and one of their chucker guards for a clear upgrade at either guard position.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#242 » by EastSideBucksFan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:47 pm

Cue the Monta for Mayo trade rumors.

Sounds like they hate him and much as we hate Monta.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... --nba.html


Throw in Dahntay Jones with Mayo and it works in the checker for Monta.

I don't love Mayo, but he's younger and doesn't have an $11M player option.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#243 » by AussieBuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:52 pm

eagle13 wrote:OVERPAID WHEN SIGNED (imo)

Kirilenko 9.7

What the hell? You think maybe Derozan is ok but Kirilenko is overpaid? That's insane.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#244 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:57 pm

Dallas could do better than Ellis if they are trading Mayo, is my guess. Guy is putting up a really efficient 18+ ppg and is still only 25.

If they are planning on trying to land a guy like Dwight with their cap space, wouldn't surprise me if they moved him though.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#245 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:59 pm

DrugBust wrote:110 players. Ersan is 88th on that list.

Keep in mind that Ersan is one of the rare players on that list without an escalating salary. Some of the guys below him are going to make more than him in the coming years. Some of the guys above him are going to make a lot more.

I was right, obviously. Once you get past your rookie deal, if you're even average, you're going to make over $7 million.

Now think about all the guys out there on their rookie deals that are set to join that club in the next three years.

I don't know how anyone could make a case that Ersan is overpaid, having looked at that list. At the very least, he's in line with what others have got. It's probably easier for me to make a case he's underpaid.

That list makes it even more evident that he's overpaid. Look at the backups/fringe starters on that list, it's almost comical the percentage of these guys that are overpaid. And most of them were overpaid because they were components on a real playoff threat or contender, which we are neither.


Humphries 12.0 (overpaid by a contender)
Turkoglu 11.8 (overpaid by a contender)
Maggette 10.9
Calderon 10.6
Jordan 10.5 (overpaid by a contender)
S. Jackson 10.1
Jefferson 10.1 (overpaid by a contender)
Bargnani 10.0
McGee 10.0 (overpaid by non first round fodder)
DeRozan 9.5
Biedrins 9.0
Marion 8.6 (overpaid by a contender)
Nelson 8.6 (overpaid by a contender)
M. Williams 8.5 (overpaid by a contender)
Stuckey 8.5
D. Harris 8.5
Mar. Williams 8.2 (overpaid by non first round fodder)
Odom 8.2 (overpaid by a contender)
Green 8.1 (overpaid by a contender)
Salmons 8.1
Thornton 8.1
Butler 8.0 (overpaid by a contender)
Geo. Hill 8.0 (overpaid by non first round fodder)
Villanueva 8.0
T. Thomas 8.0
Kaman 8.0 (overpaid by a contender)
Young 8.0
Ilyasova: 7.9
Blatche 7.7
Perkins 7.8 (overpaid by a contender)
Udrih 7.8
Gibson 7.5 (overpaid by a contender)
Dragic 7.5
Diop 7.3
Ariza 7.2
World Peace 7.2
Dallembert 6.7
Harrington 6.7
Prince 6.7
Gooden 6.6
Am. Johnson 6.5
Hawes 6.5
Frye 6.5
Childress 6.5
Bass 6.5 (overpaid by a contender/playoff threat)

Looking at those contracts, I can say I'd probably only say 5 to 7 or less are worth what they were paid with probably half of those only being worth what they were paid because of the team they were on.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#246 » by mlloyd10 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:11 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Dallas could do better than Ellis if they are trading Mayo, is my guess. Guy is putting up a really efficient 18+ ppg and is still only 25.

If they are planning on trying to land a guy like Dwight with their cap space, wouldn't surprise me if they moved him though.


If he's playing for a contract and wants to be on a team that has playoff hopes. i think he wouldn't mind coming here. Plus he could hang with his bro for 5-6 months...I think it would have to be a 3-team trade where ellis can go to a team and be a 1st option (Suns, Wolves(Love hurt), Bobcats)
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#247 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:20 pm

Someone said this earlier, but when that many players are making that kind of money, they stop being overpaid, that starts becoming the going rate. Which is what has been the law the land for a decade now. I'm not saying anything outlandish here; I've always thought it was common knowledge that if you're worth giving minutes to at the end of your rookie deal, you're going to cash in huge.

But the key to all of this is what emunney said regarding max players and why they're so valuable. Because 3th and 4th men on your roster will inevitably get $8-$10 million plus, you need to find that superstar first. Well, ****, that's what tankers have been saying for years.

I'd move any of our guys in a heartbeat if it meant we could get good, cheap assets and picks. But trading our good young assets for old, expensive, non-superstar players makes no sense.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#248 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:40 pm

I think it's hugely debatable if Ersan is a good asset or a good player at this point.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#249 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:15 pm

DrugBust wrote:Someone said this earlier, but when that many players are making that kind of money, they stop being overpaid, that starts becoming the going rate. Which is what has been the law the land for a decade now. I'm not saying anything outlandish here; I've always thought it was common knowledge that if you're worth giving minutes to at the end of your rookie deal, you're going to cash in huge.

But the key to all of this is what emunney said regarding max players and why they're so valuable. Because 3th and 4th men on your roster will inevitably get $8-$10 million plus, you need to find that superstar first. Well, ****, that's what tankers have been saying for years.

A lot of the players paid at or above his level are CLEARLY much better players then Ersan. If the going rate for a Thaddeus Young, Jeff Green, Ersan Ilyasova, Taj Gibson is $7-9 million, why would we be buyers? We are not in a position to where these guys guys help our team. You said it, you need a couple guys clearly better then these guys to be relevant. Ersan (when he's not atrocious like he's been) is a guy much like Mike Dunleavy who wins you unneeded games and is doing it at $8 million a year. If we were already a team like Chicago or even a team like Boston or Indiana a guy like Ersan (Gibson/Hill/Green) might be worth his deal because they get us closer winning that second round in the playoffs. Right now Ersan is a guy who is keeping us in that 8th seed and farther away from those stars.

But with the way he's played he's not a 3rd or 4th guy. He may not even be a 5th or 6th guy. If he played like he did last season he would be that guy. If he regressed a little he may still be that guy. The fact is, he's dropped off the face of the earth in terms of production. He was a 16 and 10 guy when we paid him. Most of us thought he'd be like a 14 and 8 guy and his efficiency would drop a bit. Right now, he's a 9 and 5 guy with absolutely NO consistency to his game and despite a much smaller role his efficiency has plummeted.

DrugBust wrote:I'd move any of our guys in a heartbeat if it meant we could get good, cheap assets and picks. But trading our good young assets for old, expensive, non-superstar players makes no sense.

As I said above, I don't think Ersan is a good asset right now, I think he's closer to a bad contract then a good asset.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#250 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:26 pm

I think you're over-exaggerating his level of play, obviously. You didn't even get his TS% right in those four games since (.487, not .421) and we're talking about a small sample, whether you want to go by the time since Boylan took over, this month, the last thirty games or the entire season. By month his TS% has been .386, .575 and .488. We'll see what it looks like at the end of the year.

I think saying that he's a bad asset based on a third of a season as opposed to an entire career is stupid, particularly when for half of this season he's been really good, is dumb. But whatever, we're obviously not going to see eye to eye.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#251 » by Nebula1 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:27 pm

Ersan would fit nicely with Dwight Howard.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#252 » by EastSideBucksFan » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:30 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:Dallas could do better than Ellis if they are trading Mayo, is my guess. Guy is putting up a really efficient 18+ ppg and is still only 25.

If they are planning on trying to land a guy like Dwight with their cap space, wouldn't surprise me if they moved him though.


If he's playing for a contract and wants to be on a team that has playoff hopes. i think he wouldn't mind coming here. Plus he could hang with his bro for 5-6 months...I think it would have to be a 3-team trade where ellis can go to a team and be a 1st option (Suns, Wolves(Love hurt), Bobcats)



If Dallas wants Dwight....they need Monta.....

Dirk Nowitzki was recently asked if he will attempt to recruit Dwight Howard to sign with the Dallas Mavericks in the offseason when he becomes an unrestricted free agent.

Nowitzki talked to Deron Williams during his free agency last summer before he eventually re-signed with the Brooklyn Nets.

"We're not that close," said Nowitzki. "It's going to be tough. Dwight is in L.A. Obviously, CP3 [Chris Paul] is with the Clippers and they're both in great situations. So, we will have to wait and see what the summer brings."
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#253 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:36 pm

DrugBust wrote:I think you're over-exaggerating his level of play, obviously. You didn't even get his TS% right in those four games since (.487, not .421) and we're talking about a small sample, whether you want to go by the time since Boylan took over, this month, the last thirty games or the entire season. By month his TS% has been .386, .575 and .488. We'll see what it looks like at the end of the year.

Image

So is it basketball reference that is wrong (serious question). And that's the thing, we could see at the end of the year. If he doesn't improve drastically we may have no chance of moving him then though.


DrugBust wrote:I think saying that he's a bad asset based on a third of a season as opposed to an entire career is stupid, particularly when for half of this season he's been really good, is dumb. But whatever, we're obviously not going to see eye to eye.

His career?! His three seasons previous to his contract year he was below average TS% wise. If we're going off his entire career (and not just what we saw last season) he would have NEVER gotten the deal he did.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#254 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:38 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:If Dallas wants Dwight....they need Monta.....

Isn't that what we thought about Gerald Wallace and Deron Williams though?
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#255 » by mlloyd10 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:52 pm

Hoopsrumors chat today


4:46

Comment From Mike
Do you see the bucks dealing Ellis? If so, what teams would be interested?
4:49

Luke Adams:
Definitely think it'll be something they consider, but they're in that same position they seem to be in every year -- as the 8th seed, do they really want to mess with the chemistry of a team that seems headed for the playoffs? Even if they're just going to be eliminated quickly in round one, I'm not sure they'll want to blow up the roster, so they'd have to get a quality veteran player back if they dealt Ellis. Maybe the Jazz (Millsap, Jefferson) would be a fit as a trade partner?
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#256 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:24 pm

Here's what you said:

Edit - And you want to talk about after Skiles stopped "messing with him" and he got consistent minutes under Boylan, 42.8% TS% in those 4 games. Yup, you read that right.


So I used the four games to start Boylan's run here. You missed the Phoenix game.

As for his career, he's got a .530 TS%, 107 ORtg, 103 DRtg and WS/48 of .133.

Compare that to another recent Buck's career, Andrew Bogut: .536, 106, 104, .109.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#257 » by Baddy Chuck » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:41 pm

DrugBust wrote:Here's what you said:

Edit - And you want to talk about after Skiles stopped "messing with him" and he got consistent minutes under Boylan, 42.8% TS% in those 4 games. Yup, you read that right.


So I used the four games to start Boylan's run here. You missed the Phoenix game.

As for his career, he's got a .530 TS%, 107 ORtg, 103 DRtg and WS/48 of .133.

Compare that to another recent Buck's career, Andrew Bogut: .536, 106, 104, .109.

That is my bad, in the 5 games hes got a TS% of 46.1%, the point still stands.

As for the Bogut comparison, you can't be serious? Bogut's worth is obviously not on the offensive end and even then when you compare their TS% it's almost laughable that Bogut's is actually higher considering how bad of a FT shooter he is. When you look at their defense you may as well be comparing Hakeem and Charlie V.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#258 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:21 am

ersan is overpaid.

ryan anderson is the guy worth that contract. he continues to put up the stats used to justify that kind of money over a season and ersan puts up those numbers over a month. when they become comparable statistically again then we can talk.

trading ersan needs to be just as high a priority as trading monta at this point....we can do better with that money and we have the bodies to immediately replace him. at the sg we dont.
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#259 » by eagle13 » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:23 am

2 TRADES
Ellis Ersan Harris 1st-LP – MEM – Gay Arthur Selby
Sam – ATL - Korver

ROSTER
Sanders / Udoh / Pryzbilla
Henson / Moute / Arthur / Gooden
Gay / Dunleavy
Daniels / Korver / Lamb
Jennings / Udrih / Selby

EXPIRING – daniels udrih dunleavy pryzbilla korver
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Re: Trades for the Bucks to blow it up 

Post#260 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:26 am

It would take all my might not to pull a Sigra and become a Bulls fan if we did that Memphis trade.
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