Aldridge: Skiles Unlikely To Return Next Season

[whatthe_buck!?]

I mean lets keep in mind tho that this is the guy who asked for Ellis over Curry in the Bogut trade...

are you proposing he wanted ellis more for his talent or simply to gaurd against another key player being shelved long term for health reasons?

I'm saying that there have been decisions that Hammond has made that could be used to argue that Hammond shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to comments made that may or may not be him simply playing poker as opposed to him giving his honest thoughts... Let me ask u a question: in your opinion, what was the upside for the Bucks of aquiring Monte Ellis? Especially when we already had Jennings and also the evidence of what would happen pairing Ellis with another pseudo-pointguard (as he had already been playing alongside Curry in GS). And I'm not even asking u that in regard to his value as a piece of a larger Bogut trade, I'm saying what was the upside of aquiring him at all. Like trade for him, sign him to a vet min contract, anything that would add him to our team, what is the upside/ceiling of that move?

[RandyBreuer]

Yeah, I have faith Lil Johnny wil trade one of the chuck twins by the deadline, as I did with Bogut last year.
Regardless, I hope his ass is out the door with Skiles. Lots of replacements available (even to Milwaukee) who certainly couldn't do worse than Hammond.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Let me ask u a question: in your opinion, what was the upside for the Bucks of aquiring Monte Ellis?

Especially when we already had Jennings and also the evidence of what would happen pairing Ellis with another pseudo-pointguard (as he had already been playing alongside Curry in GS). And I'm not even asking u that in regard to his value as a piece of a larger Bogut trade, I'm saying what was the upside of aquiring him at all. Like trade for him, sign him to a vet min contract, anything that would add him to our team, what is the upside/ceiling of that move?

the upside to acquiring monta ellis was that maybe, just maybe, we would be getting a player who wouldnt need an actual offense to score. a guy who could maybe score if he wasnt wide open as hell.

our team needs a guy like that more than any other single type of player.

brandon jennings is not that type of player who can just go create offense, and the main issue with the trade being the concern about them defensively hasnt been an issue either. the fact that they are both low efficiency is certainly a problem. my solution to that problem would be to remove FIRST the guy who cant create for himself or his teammates. lets continue to try and improve the offense by removing one of the WORST passing pgs in the league..... not removing one of the BEST passing sgs.

[paulpressey25]

my solution to that problem would be to remove FIRST the guy who cant create for himself or his teammates. lets continue to try and improve the offense by removing one of the WORST passing pgs in the league..... not removing one of the BEST passing sgs.

I'm not happy though with brain dead Monta out there, short term or long-term. But if given my druthers, if we could only move one of them, I'd move Jennings out even in a "lateral move" for a guy like Lowry to see what our team looks like after four years with a totally different PG. So I concur with your comments.

[europa]

If the choice is keeping Jennings or Ellis for the rest of this season I'm going with Jennings hands down. Not even close.

[JBucks]

Hammond is trash as a GM. How can anyone justify his drafting or call him "solid" in that regard?

Joe Alexander
Jennings
Jodie Meeks
Sanders
Blew three second rounders in one draft
Harris - will never be able to play D
Leuer
Henson - might pan out/might not
Lamb - does not look good

How does this constitute anything close to good draft discipline/success?

[paulpressey25]

If the choice is keeping Jennings or Ellis for the rest of this season I'm going with Jennings hands down. Not even close.

You've got to get those Bogut trade blinders off in the hate for Monta. Jennings is horrific at PG and you know it and you've talked about it for years. PG play makes the world go around. Jennings struggles to even throw basic lob passes to Larry Sanders.

[Baddy Chuck]

hammond has drafted well and taken some decent swings with his trades. other than gooden who was a skiles guy you cant really hate on anything else he did...... it just hasnt worked out.

Yeah, trading for an all-star center, signing the 6th man of the year, trying to trade for an all star power forward, trying to flip a bust before he even hit the floor. It's not his fault Larry Harris' moves didn't work out.

The "it didn't work out" is pretty lame excuse IMO. Ernie Grunfeld is probably going to put that on his next resume.

[europa]

If the choice is keeping Jennings or Ellis for the rest of this season I'm going with Jennings hands down. Not even close.

You've got to get those Bogut trade blinders off in the hate for Monta. Jennings is horrific at PG and you know it and you've talked about it for years. PG play makes the world go around. Jennings struggles to even throw basic lob passes to Larry Sanders.

You need to stop thinking everything has to do with Bogut. I never said I wanted to keep Jennings. At this point I'm all for trading him now. I'm all in for a Jennings-Lowry deal. All I'm saying is that if I have to choose between one pile of poop over another I'll take the one that smells slightly less like poop.

[Baddy Chuck]

If the choice is keeping Jennings or Ellis for the rest of this season I'm going with Jennings hands down. Not even close.

You've got to get those Bogut trade blinders off in the hate for Monta. Jennings is horrific at PG and you know it and you've talked about it for years. PG play makes the world go around. Jennings struggles to even throw basic lob passes to Larry Sanders.

How is that Bogut blinders? Monta is more turnover prone and just as inefficient. He doesn't average more assists despite a higher usage rate. PG play may make the world go round, but Jennings is a better point guard then either of our two options left for 30 minutes a game.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Let me ask u a question: in your opinion, what was the upside for the Bucks of aquiring Monte Ellis?

Especially when we already had Jennings and also the evidence of what would happen pairing Ellis with another pseudo-pointguard (as he had already been playing alongside Curry in GS). And I'm not even asking u that in regard to his value as a piece of a larger Bogut trade, I'm saying what was the upside of aquiring him at all. Like trade for him, sign him to a vet min contract, anything that would add him to our team, what is the upside/ceiling of that move?

the upside to acquiring monta ellis was that maybe, just maybe, we would be getting a player who wouldnt need an actual offense to score. a guy who could maybe score if he wasnt wide open as hell.

our team needs a guy like that more than any other single type of player.

brandon jennings is not that type of player who can just go create offense, and the main issue with the trade being the concern about them defensively hasnt been an issue either. the fact that they are both low efficiency is certainly a problem. my solution to that problem would be to remove FIRST the guy who cant create for himself or his teammates. lets continue to try and improve the offense by removing one of the WORST passing pgs in the league..... not removing one of the BEST passing sgs.

Well we don't even really necessarily disagree about the second part of ur post. I wouldn't mind getting rid of Jennings any more than I would mind trading Ellis as long as long as it would break up this backcourt and put an actual SG that can matchup against other NBA SGs into the starting lineup.

But that's my point, if the upside of trading for eliis was whatever the best outcome for a future Ellis trade could be (or, conversely, if we could convince Ellis to resign and then whatever the best possible outcome of a Jennings trade could be [slightly more complicated in application but an equally valid measure of the upside of aquiring Ellis]), and now we are in a place where the most likely outcome of our current situation is that Ellis will opt out and sign with another team this offseason and we will sign Jennings to -or match- a large contract extension that he almost certainly will not be happy with OR live up to, how can that decision -presumably by hammond- be measured as anything other than a bad one that should rightfully call into serious question the idea of giving Hammond the benefit of the doubt on ANYTHING. Keep in mind, if Curry had been the piece instead of Ellis we wouldn't be in this a terrible situation because even if nothing at all was done until this coming offseason in regard to Jennings/Curry, at the very least we would have the right to match FA offers given to both guys and therefore have leverage as well.

[paulpressey25]

but Jennings is a better point guard then either of our two options left for 30 minutes a game.

I'm talking dealing Jennings for Lowry and getting a new starting PG.

If my choices were:

A) See how the team does under Lowry but be stuck with Monta either until he opts out or he stays one more year.

or

B) Move Monta for some assorted grab bag package BUT be locked then into extending Jennings this summer

I'm taking door "A". I just don't want to see this team let the trade deadline go past and thus either lose Jennings for nothing or be forced to match a 4/$35 or something like that.

[paulpressey25]

By the way, coming back to the original topic on this thread. I do think we need to start asking Wizard fans what the last ten years of Abe Polin as owner were like. The similarities between he and Kohl are quite striking. Hammond is apparently going to be Kohl's version of Grunfeld.

ETA: I invited some Wizards fans over to comment.

[europa]

I can stomach Jennings if forced to although I have no desire to lock him long-term at this point given the contract he'll likely be looking for.

I can't stand Ellis.

I think if you still had Jennings and removed Ellis the team has a chance to be at least mildly entertaining. I don't see any way this team will be enjoyable to watch with Ellis but with Jennings gone, assuming an elite PG doesn't take his place.

[Baddy Chuck]

but Jennings is a better point guard then either of our two options left for 30 minutes a game.

I'm talking dealing Jennings for Lowry and getting a new starting PG.

And europa is saying if he had to choose between Monta or Brandon, Lowry not involved.

[JBucks]

I honestly don't understand how Skiles can continue to coach this team on a day to day basis. There is zero to look forward to, except a paycheck and probably some veiled chuckles at the product that Kohl and Hammond have put on the floor.

[JBucks]

I can stomach Jennings if forced to although I have no desire to lock him long-term at this point given the contract he'll likely be looking for.

I can't stand Ellis.

I think if you still had Jennings and removed Ellis the team has a chance to be at least mildly entertaining. I don't see any way this team will be enjoyable to watch with Ellis but with Jennings gone, assuming an elite PG doesn't take his place.

This team without Ellis would be worse than Cleveland and Detroit and maybe New Orleans. Not necessarily a bad thing.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

jennings is a poor mans monta ellis.... except smaller and worse at EVERY aspect and/or statistical category of the game of basketball. he really should play sg like monta but hes too small for it... so not only is he worse than monta at everything but hes also forced to play out of position.

all that said, i will say hes better at limiting statistical turnovers. he does well there on paper so id imagine i shouldnt leave that out of the analysis. but i chalk that up to the fact that when monta gets stuck and tries to make something happen, he either chucks a bad shot or forces a bad pass. jennings prefers to just dribble like crazy and then when he gets stuck to wait for somebody to run at him to get the ball late in the shot clock. its basically the same as a turnover but it doesnt count like one.

[europa]

I can stomach Jennings if forced to although I have no desire to lock him long-term at this point given the contract he'll likely be looking for.

I can't stand Ellis.

I think if you still had Jennings and removed Ellis the team has a chance to be at least mildly entertaining. I don't see any way this team will be enjoyable to watch with Ellis but with Jennings gone, assuming an elite PG doesn't take his place.

This team without Ellis would be worse than Cleveland and Detroit and maybe New Orleans. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Replace Ellis with an efficient SG and the team instantly improves.

[Ayt]

Jennings and Ellis have played well together, forming easily the least efficient volume backcourt in the entire NBA.

19.4 + 17.8 = 37.2

You tell me how you find 2 players cheaper to replace 37 PPGZ!

I don't care to actually try to figure it out, but Chuck and Suck have to be one of the worst duos in 20 years when it comes to high shot attempts combined with putrid TS%. I'm having trouble of thinking of many duos to even compare them to.

Monta is 6th in the NBA in FGA and Baddy is 11th.