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Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.)

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Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#1 » by AussieBuck » Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:21 am

Scott Skiles may be somewhere between eccentric **** and clinically insane but I think we can agree that he certainly isn't a lone hand in the mess we call our Milwaukee Bucks but I'm sure he'll be painted in that light by the propaganda machine over the coming days. Let's have a look at the Hammond era by position and see how we got here:

PG:
Traded Mo, got Back 2 years and $13 million of Luke Ridnour.
Signed Tyronn Lue to his last NBA contact for $2.5 million.

Drafted Brandon Jennings ahead of Lawson and Holiday also tried to trade up for Flynn.
Got nothing in return for Ramon Sessions because $4 million was too much to pay a possible backup.


Traded for and later bought out Roko Ono.
Signed Earl Boykins to his last full season contract for $1.5 million.
Signed Keyon Dooling to his last NBA contract 2 year a little more than $4 million.

Acquired Livingston in Jackson trade 1 year $3.5 million plus $1 million guaranteed.
Acquired Beno in Jackson trade 2 years $14 million.

Declined Stephen Curry for Bogut deal

Used a second to get rid of Dooling.
Livingston's salary is used in Dalembert deal.

I'll do the wings together next.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. 

Post#2 » by AussieBuck » Tue Jan 8, 2013 11:47 am

SG/SF:
Michael Redd and his max deal kept until expired. Got 61 games out of him for $51 million.
Drafted Joe Alexander with the 6th pick.
Drafted Luc with the 37th pick.
Traded Bobby Simmons 2/$21 million with Yi to get Richard Jefferson and his 3/$42 million.
Traded Mason in the Mo deal.

Traded Lue to get Keith Bogans

Traded Jefferson for expirings and KT
Drafted Jodie Meeks.
Traded Amir Johnson to get Delfino.
Signed Stackhouse.
Traded Meeks and change for a second round pick and change.
Traded Alexander and Warrick for Salmons and picks.

Traded Chuck Bell 2/$8 million with Gadz 1/$7 million for Maggette 2/$20 million and a second.
Drafted Hobson with a second

The Salmons/Maggette for Jackson/Beno/Livingston and move down in the draft trade.
Drafted Tobias Harris with the 17th pick

Signed Dunleavy.
Waived Hobson.
Traded Jackson with Bogut for Monta Ellis and Udoh.

Drafted Lamb with pick 42.
Signed Marquis Daniels.

*He also traded a second for CDR at some point.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hakammond Shuffle.) 

Post#3 » by AussieBuck » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:03 pm

PF:
Traded Yi with Bobby for Jefferson.
Signed Malik Allen 2/$2.6 million.
Claimed Austin Croshere off waivers.
Acquired Oberto in the Jefferson trade
Traded Oberto for Amir Johnson.

Signed RFA Ersan for 3/$7 million.
Signed Hakim Warrick 1/$3 million.
Traded Allen for Weems and cash.
Traded Johnson and Weems for Delfino.
Warrick went in the Salmons trade.

Drafted Tiny Gallon!
Signed Gooden 5/$32 million.
Traded a second for Brockman.
Signed Brockman for 3/$3 million.
Signed and then waived Brian Skinner twice

Drafted Jon Leuer.

Drafted John Henson
Signed UFA Ersan

*I've listed Skinner and Allen as PFs rather than corpses.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#4 » by Sigra » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:14 pm

Oh God, please not again.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#5 » by AussieBuck » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:17 pm

C:
Signed Elson 2/$3.4

Traded Elson in the Meeks deal and got back Primoz Brezec.

Traded Gadz in the Maggette deal.
Drafted Larry Sanders with pick 15
Drafted Jerome Jordan then sold him for cash

..........

Traded Bogut and got Udoh and $wag.

Expirings and a pick downgrade for Dalembert.
Signed Joel.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#6 » by AussieBuck » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:19 pm

Says the guy who can't resist coming into my thread to protest his hero's work being documented. Take your abuse elsewhere, Bulls board maybe?
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#7 » by trwi7 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:43 pm

Sigra wrote:Oh God, please not again.



Not unless you think about the ironing.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#8 » by AussieBuck » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:47 pm

Epic lulz. :lol:
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#9 » by blkout » Tue Jan 8, 2013 12:58 pm

trwi7 wrote:
Sigra wrote:Oh God, please not again.



Not unless you think about the ironing.


:lol: that went well.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#10 » by trwi7 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 1:02 pm

First I was just going to post the ironing with two links but I found so many more similar to AussieBuck's thread that I had to post them so I used a classic Simpsons quote to add them. :)
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#11 » by Badgerlander » Tue Jan 8, 2013 1:04 pm

I would've fired Hammond years ago, no idea why he is still clinging to a job in the NBA. He's a disaster.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#12 » by Sigra » Tue Jan 8, 2013 1:19 pm

trwi7 wrote:First I was just going to post the ironing with two links but I found so many more similar to AussieBuck's thread that I had to post them so I used a classic Simpsons quote to add them. :)


And you are 100% right. I had no life. Just like AussueBuck right now :lol:

But even then my topics had new information and new subjects. We talked about Hammond's work so many times that I can't beleive that people still have desire to talk about that in details.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#13 » by Badgerlander » Tue Jan 8, 2013 1:29 pm

Sigra wrote:We talked about Hammond's work so many times that I can't beleive that people still have desire to talk about that in details.


I think as long as people continue to defend Hammond other people will continue to ensure that he gets the recognition that he deserves.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#14 » by MickeyDavis » Tue Jan 8, 2013 1:29 pm

It's true we've reviewed and critiqued Hammond many times. But since Skiles is being made the scapegoat it's probably a good time to revisit the real problem (or one of them, along with ownership).
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#15 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 1:49 pm

If you analyze all of Hammonds moves the last five years and use the context of timing, salary cap impact and level of assets received back........his best deal was the Bogut trade.

That's about all you need to know about John Hammond's work here.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#16 » by Thunder Muscle » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:04 pm

So... Do you think Hammond is extended or gone by the end of the season then? I would really like one of the other by January 31.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#17 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:06 pm

I believe Kohl is the driving force behind the "washed-up volume-scoring wing with declining/non-existent all-around game" phenomenon. That has been a constant despite the revolving carousel of coaches and gm's. I suspect that Kohl puts pressure on his gm's to acquire scorers and lets them do what they want when it comes to acquiring secondary pieces. I don't believe Kohl values defense, leadership, or unselfishness because he doesn't understand basketball. But meddles anyway.

I'm just not prepared to throw Hammond under the bus anymore. I used to think he was awful, but as I look back on his patterns of drafting and secondary moves I start to think that he's a better evaluator of talent than we give him credit for. I don't really believe that he would pursue guys like Maggette, Jax, or Ellis if he was given complete autonomy. This is the same guy who let CV and Sessions walk for nothing and traded Mo for Ridnour. The Bucks usually resign guys like that and regret it immediately, but since they were so awful with those guys I believe it was the one season where Kohl gave his gm permission to cut ties with his box score darlings. I don't believe Hammond's the one who's in love with one-dimensional scorers. I think it's Kohl.

I think Hammond's overall body of work has been above average or even excellent except when it comes to the high-profile decisions involving overpaid vets. Those are the decisions in which Kohl is most likely to meddle. Putting two and two together, I believe (but have no direct proof) that Hammond is a pretty astute evaluator of talent who's under a lot of pressure to do things that he normally wouldn't do because of Kohl. He's stuck trading for whatever big-name, over-rated, overpaid scorers are available because Kohl insists on making a splash.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#18 » by crkone » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:12 pm

Larry Harris could get what he wanted in trades, he was a smooth operator and could convince Kohl with what he wanted. I swear that Harris and Hammond were polar opposites.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#19 » by coolhandluke121 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:23 pm

crkone wrote:Larry Harris could get what he wanted in trades, he was a smooth operator and could convince Kohl with what he wanted. I swear that Harris and Hammond were polar opposites.


Yes, but Harris's personal bias was in favor of one-dimensional scorers. He built "on-paper" teams, so his vision was compatible with Kohl's.

Imagine if Hammond actually did want to trade Redd for expiring contracts and a draft pick, or if he wanted to let Salmons walk for nothing, or if he insisted on letting Maggette rot on the bench rather than moving down in the draft to get a replacement whom Kohl and the casual fans would deem worthy of starting. I think Hammond might have wanted those things, but never would have been allowed to enact his complete vision.

I'm not 100% sure of this or anything. I'm just suggesting a reasonable alternative interpretation of events, really.
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Re: Beyond The Scapegoat. (The Hammond Shuffle.) 

Post#20 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:45 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:If you analyze all of Hammonds moves the last five years and use the context of timing, salary cap impact and level of assets received back........his best deal was the Bogut trade.


Ugh. That was arguably his worst move on par with the Alexander disaster, especially when you factor in what was readily available. The Bucks had a chance to be well positioned for the next few seasons at least. Instead ... Swag.

His best draft pick right now appears to be Sanders with Moute a close second based on value. His best FA signing I would say would be Dunleavy. His best trades were the Salmons and RJ to San Antonio deals (once you factor in Delfino). Both moves played significant roles on what turned out to be a good team.

However, you slice it the team's record since he took over does nothing to provide evidence Hammond should keep his job after this season, barring a miraculous playoff run.
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