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Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension

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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#151 » by REDDzone » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:14 am

Just saw this now. Came to post it here, and lo and behold you dudes have a 10 page thread already. Classic. :)

The bad news is Hammond may be extended, the good news is I get to continue saving all that money I would normally have spent on Bucks games.

Be Mediocrity!
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#152 » by trwi7 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:22 am

The best news is I don't have to spend 30 seconds changing the name of my twitter account.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#153 » by trwi7 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:24 am

ReddWing wrote:Listening to Hammond speak reminds me of Daffy Duck or some other cartoon character. I can just picture him bouncing off the walls.


Reminds me of Porky Pig. Ba-dee, ba-dee, ba-dee that's all folks.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#154 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:44 am

midranger wrote:Interesting.


Not really. :sleep2:

As predictable as it can be. Always the only logical thing to do. One of the best GMs in NBA. You keep him offcourse.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#155 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:49 am

AussieBuck wrote:This is about the most depressing news since we dropped to 6th in the Oden/Durant draft.


What a great day for me. Reading delusional haters cry?

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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#156 » by stellation » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:08 am

Sigra wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:This is about the most depressing news since we dropped to 6th in the Oden/Durant draft.


What a great day for me. Reading delusional haters cry?

There are some things money can't buy. For everything else there's MasterCard. :devil:

AB isn't a hater, he's just a lover that has been burned at the temple of Hammond one too many times. He has a differing opinion to you, I'd draw a parallel for you on how common that may be (or how you could be viewed as a hater) but you frankly flip/flop on opinions so much that it'd be hard to do.

He's one of my Antipodean bitches, you're welcome to touch them but please speak to me about the price first.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#157 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:26 am

stellation wrote:frankly flip/flop on opinions so much that it'd be hard to do.


Oh yea? Let me tell you something about you. You are....hmmm...well, you....

Damn it. I wanted to say something about you in response but I honestly can't remember I ever saw you posting before. I see that you are here from 2005 and that you have some posts but honestly I don't remember you :dontknow:
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#158 » by stellation » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:34 am

Sigra wrote:
stellation wrote:frankly flip/flop on opinions so much that it'd be hard to do.


Oh yea? Let me tell you something about you. You are....hmmm...well, you....

Damn it. I wanted to say something about you in response but I honestly can't remember I ever saw you posting before. I see that you are here from 2005 and that you have some posts but honestly I don't remember you :dontknow:

:D I mean no harm, I find it endearing.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#159 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:37 am

So let's say we stay the course and keep Beno, MDJ and Monta for a playoff push and they expire.

He inherited the bad contracts of Gadzuric, Bell and Simmons. After a slew of bad moves (Maggette, Jackson, Salmons, Gooden) the only one we have left is Gooden. You could argue Ersan may end up as a bad deal as well. Can we really say he did a good job here? I don't think so, time could've solved the problems of bad contracts better then Hammond did. He shuffled junk for 4 years and is left with a bad contract (or 2) to show for it.

He inherited the assets of Redd, Bogut, Sessions, Yi, Mo Will and Villanueva. Through any trade involving these players the only assets we will have to show is Ekpe Udoh. Can you say he did a good job here? I don't really think you can.

We have made the playoffs one time and will likely return this season. 2/5 years in the playoffs with likely no advancement. Did he do a good job there? 40% doesn't pass in any system that I know of.

He has done a solid job drafting. He turned some mediocre picks into some decent players from the looks of it. Two point guards drafted after Jennings look better, no one is really better then Luc, no one is really better then Sanders, theres players better then Tobes but we haven't seen a whole lot of him yet and he completely blew the Alexander pick. Has he done a good job here? Yes, that Alexander pick is a huge dark spot on a solid resume.

After 5 seasons we will have only made the playoffs twice and the only player besides draft picks or players already here that is on the team is Ekpe Udoh.

He started with 3 bad contracts, 5 assets, 5 first round pick and 5 second round picks. He is sitting here with 1 (arguably 2) bad contracts, 1 asset and 5 (6 with Lamb) players through the draft to build with. You will also have cap space so whatever we can get there you can add.

I don't really see how you can say he's been good.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#160 » by AussieBuck » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:59 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
I don't really see how you can say he's been good.

You have to have fallen in love with his tough talk when hired and then ignore all the evidence since. Or you have to believe that he's been thwarted at every turn by Kohl/Skiles.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#161 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 9, 2013 11:56 am

-Good free agents don't want to play for Milwaukee. Even for average ones you have to overpay.
-He did find some cheap free agents who helped (Stackhouse, Dunleavy etc).
-You can't trade garbage for gold. You have to take risk and try problematic players (Maggette, Jackson etc) in attempt to get your version of Rasheed/Randolph.
-His trades for role players were sucesfull though (Ridnour, Delfino, Beno, Udoh etc)
-He wanted to tank but owner didn't allow.
-He has done great job drafting.
-He re-signed his own free againts for cheap (Bogut, Ersan, Moute) or rightly let them go (CV, Sessions). The only exception being Salmons but there was no choise in that case.
-The end result was greatly efected by extreme amount of injuries of best players (Bogut, Redd).

What is not to like? Hammonds for president!!!!
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#162 » by Jollay » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:02 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:This is about the most depressing news since we dropped to 6th in the Oden/Durant draft.


I think that night was worse for me personally.

If we fired Hammond, Kohl would still be running things. Had we finished second in that lotto, we'd have Durant and be a 50-win team right now.

That lotto was our one chance to escape Kohl's mediocrity.


The only regret I have from that draft is we didn't trade #6 for all the Sixers firsts that year like they offered, or something else.

The reason being if we picked first, this board wanted Oden 80-20% about...I remember it well.

And yes, we still had Bogut at the time. Talk about a debacle that would have been.

As I said, to me Hammond has been fine so far because his drafting has been good. The trading has really been mostly inconsequential long term. But what he does in the next 3-18 months will determine if he's good enough to be a success here.

Very torn about a hole at SG BTW. It's an easy position to find an above average player without a high pick in the draft, but It's almost impossible to find a very good to all-star calibur player there without it. Gotta hope for Michael Redd II there or more likely trade/cap room.

We'll see. Still reserving judgement on a guy in a situation where very few people would have had markedly more success in so far (with Kohl).
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#163 » by MilTownBucks » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:53 pm

Nothing new here, but just got done watching Hammond interview on the morning news (1st time Ive seen the Bucks on Madison news in quite some time which is so pathetic).

We shouldnt get our hopes up about tanking. He said "We still expect to contend, we still expect to win, we still expect to make the playoffs, no matter who the coach is"

I just want to contend for the future...we arent going to win anything in the next 3 years.

No big contracts yet please...
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#164 » by unklchuk » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:20 pm

don't really see how you can say he's been good.


My take: if Kohl and Hammond have the exact same understanding they've had for years, the extension is bad news. More status quo, more stubborn inaction, more bad decisions.

But if the Skiles release and the extension talk came after K & H came to a new understanding of The Plan, then I see some hope in the extension.

- - - - - - -

I wonder if Sigra's wife torments him the way that he tries to torment members here?
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#165 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:27 pm

unklchuk wrote:
My take: if Kohl and Hammond have the exact same understanding they've had for years, the extension is bad news. More status quo, more stubborn inaction, more bad decisions.



This is what Sparky was trying to get at on his various shows yesterday. Hammond has the same W-L record as Skiles. So if you are going to say Skiles didn't do the job, then neither has Hammond.

And as he noted, Skiles told Kohl and Hammond last summer he wanted out. Those two guys were put on notice that they had a volatile coach who was acting up. Bringing Skiles back was a horrible decision given the circumstances. But they elected to keep him in place for this season, so the events of yesterday are on them.

But more importantly, as Sparky said, if Kohl is going to insist on win now yet have standards no higher than the 6, 7th or 8th seed as corporate goals, nothing has changed. We won't play the young guys for development purposes and we will keep treading water, unable to do what is necessary to acquire an all star player (i.e. tank).

Sparky even went so far as to say that maybe the change to Boylan loosens these guys up and the team wins 45 games this year. And then Boylan gets a big three year extension. But because we have no all stars the whole thing is unsustainable, so people will be back complaining on the postgame show next year about Boylan. Rinse, lather, repeat. And in the meantime we've wasted another couple years where we could have been doing a proper rebuild.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#166 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:30 pm

To me the whole thing hinges on the organization's philosophy. I don't expect them to tank, but I do expect that they will play the young guys, not spend any big money on veterans in FA, and let the chips fall where they may. I don't expect them to outright blatantly tank (fake injuries, etc.). But if we're still operating under a mandate of spending up to the tax, ignoring young guys PT, etc., then I am 100% against a Hammond extension.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#167 » by unklchuk » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:45 pm

Not sure if I'm differing with Luke or not. But I'm fine with over-spending for this season. If they can add a starter-quality wing to balance the roster, I don't care what he costs. If that guy has two years left, and they don't plan to retain Ellis (or Jennings), then AFAIK that's OK too. It's just that I don't want a Win Now move to shackle the future. And I don't want a player who has a lottery ticket chance of still having game.


ETA: Making the playoffs and generating some excitement in the first round WILL HELP this team. It's a bit like ER care that keeps the patient alive and functioning so that slower-acting treatments have a chance to work. Without the ER, those slower treatments may be useless.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#168 » by Nowak008 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:46 pm

So we have a couple solid young players and we all want to give Hammond a shot a full rebuild? Ugh. I know we are desperate for the tank, and will take any situation where that is the end result, but we gotta get Hammond outta here. Did anyone read AussieBuck's thread? The guy is terrible. No creative moves for impact players, no all stars added in 5 years, and failed miserably the last 2 years to make the playoffs in the crappy eastern conference.

What am I missing?
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#169 » by craig » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:12 pm

I expect that Hammonds/Kohl want to win now, but play youth that is reasonably ready at the same time. Sanders and Henson, they can help win now and future. Can Harris? I don't know.

Disappointing rumor, Hammonds hasn't impressed at all. But, the most important thing that a GM does is draft. If you both give Hammonds a pass on Alexander, and still believe that Harris is decent, then Hammond's draft record looks good. Hopefully if he does get extended, he'll draft well and good things will follow.
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Re: Kohl and Hammond Working on Extension 

Post#170 » by Sigra » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:12 pm

Nowak008 wrote:What am I missing?


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