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Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week

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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#41 » by cellomac1212 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:43 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:I think using stats is fine as long as you're using the right ones. We're in a day and age where nearly every statement can be put to a numerical test. The key is using the right sample sizes and right data.


Agreed. But even though TS% is the "right" stat, TS% doesn't define Brandon Jennings as an NBA point guard. You can use all the "right" stats over the best sample sizes (seasons, careers) and you still wouldn't be able to begin to "define" a Bruce Bowen or Luc Richard Mbah a Moute's worth and impact on the basketball court.


You can go ahead and add Monta and Brandon Jennings to that list as well... Okay we get it, they are inefficient... But, currently you are trending to a playoff appearance and winning more games then you are losing. I think that is a lot to ask for from a small market team.

The biggest issue with TS% is that people get way too caught up in it, IMO. If you replace Monta and Jennings with 2 more Dunleavy type players, the team can easily be worse. A lot of the players on the TS% leaderboard are strictly role players and thrive in their role. Monta and BJ, no matter how inefficient are game changers (either negatively or positively, but none the less have the ability to change the game). Their is no stat that can take that into account.

Top 20 TS%
1. Tyson Chandler-NYK .694
2. Kevin Durant-OKC .652
3. Tiago Splitter-SAS .635
4. Ray Allen-MIA .630
5. Chris Bosh-MIA .621
6. LeBron James-MIA .616
7. Kyle Korver-ATL .612
8. Carl Landry-GSW .612
9. Kevin Martin-OKC .610
10. Serge Ibaka-OKC .607
11. James Harden-HOU .605
12. Jared Dudley-PHO .604
13. Jason Kidd-NYK .599
14. Matt Barnes-LAC .598
15. Amir Johnson-TOR .597
16. Chris Paul-LAC .596
17. Kosta Koufos-DEN .590
18. Andrei Kirilenko-MIN .589
19. Robin Lopez-NOH .588
20. O.J. Mayo-DAL .587

Replace BJ with Jason Kidd and Monta with Ray Allen, you get the two highest TS% players at their position. I don't think the Bucks have much of a chance at being as good with that replacement at this point in their respective careers. Every team needs game changers efficient or not. For that reason alone, I think TS is way over-rated and looked at in a context that can easily provide false logic.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#42 » by blazza18 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:48 pm

Of course the Monta Ellis fan finds TS% overrated.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#43 » by Baddy Chuck » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:01 pm

cellomac1212 wrote:Replace BJ with Jason Kidd and Monta with Ray Allen, you get the two highest TS% players at their position. I don't think the Bucks have much of a chance at being as good with that replacement at this point in their respective careers. Every team needs game changers efficient or not. For that reason alone, I think TS is way over-rated and looked at in a context that can easily provide false logic.

Obviously you need to look at roles the players play. Kidd and Allen combined don't even have the FGA/G that Jennings or Monta do. When you factor in that Jennings and Monta basically only score points and don't do much of anything else on the court I think your "game changer" theory is completely BS. Not to mention that the rate at which they are "game changers" is pretty low. We're obviously not better if you throw low usage, high efficiency players into the mix instead of Brandon/Monta. You aren't going to get the same results, that's not rocket science.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#44 » by Ill-yasova » Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:41 pm

I disagree with the posters who are saying that the board, in general, will continue to rip Jennings even if he improves his efficiency. I think this board is generally pretty fair with players who improve their play. Just look at all the people who had completely given up on Larry who was bashed continually (and deservedly so at the time) over the course of the whole last season and summer league. While there may be a couple posters who will never care what Jennings does, I think most of us would love to cheer for an efficient Jennings.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#45 » by cellomac1212 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:47 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
cellomac1212 wrote:Replace BJ with Jason Kidd and Monta with Ray Allen, you get the two highest TS% players at their position. I don't think the Bucks have much of a chance at being as good with that replacement at this point in their respective careers. Every team needs game changers efficient or not. For that reason alone, I think TS is way over-rated and looked at in a context that can easily provide false logic.

Obviously you need to look at roles the players play. Kidd and Allen combined don't even have the FGA/G that Jennings or Monta do. When you factor in that Jennings and Monta basically only score points and don't do much of anything else on the court I think your "game changer" theory is completely BS. Not to mention that the rate at which they are "game changers" is pretty low. We're obviously not better if you throw low usage, high efficiency players into the mix instead of Brandon/Monta. You aren't going to get the same results, that's not rocket science.


Well the bolded part is what gets overlooked way to often in basketball. Since the invention (or better word being adoption as the "best" stat) of TS%, actual scoring doesn't mean shis. IMO, scoring 20 ppg is extremely hard to do and is the main reason most people that make it to the NBA never do it. An inefficient scorer will mostly inefficiently score less than 20 ppg. Also, an efficient scorer would more than likely become inefficient trying to reach the goal of 20ppg. Superstars can get 20ppg efficiently. There are a few in the NBA that do it. When you take players like Jennings and Monta and hold them to the same standards you hold Kobe and Lebron to, you are going to see some differences (mainly in efficiency). This is simply because they are not superstars (not even all stars at this point). If Monta or Jennings were ever to put up a high TS% consistently, they would be allstars/superstars. Scoring is hard to do at a high rate efficiently and inefficiently. A player that can score by creating for himself and others is extremely valuable. But the few who can do it efficiently are far and in between. The second people realize this, is the second they will stop calling Monta and BJ "horrible basketball players" as that thesis is extremely wrong. More importantly coming to that conclusion based on TS% is a severe mistake, IMO... At some point talent should trump TS% and that never happens around here. The simple thought Hinrich or Lowry would make this Bucks team better than Jennings should prove that.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#46 » by cellomac1212 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:00 am

blazza18 wrote:Of course the Monta Ellis fan finds TS% overrated.


The issue is not with the Monta's of the league, it's that people who don't know shis about evaluating talent think they can just look at TS% and know who a good or bad basketball player is. It's a number that can bring context but it should not replace the eyeball. You have two players that ultimately are responsible for closing out nearly every game and have led you to a winning record so far. Yet because they struggle with TS%, they are bad basketball players or should be replaced with players who are more efficient (not more better, but more efficient). This thought does not guarantee more wins and could easily lead to more losses. Yet it is thrown around like the end all be all of suggestions. I would rather watch inefficient wins than efficient losses and I personally think talent wins games... Not TS%.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#47 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:11 am

Sure, maybe an efficient scorer would have a hard time staying as efficient putting up 20 PPG, but I'll take an efficient 15 over an inefficient 20. Brandon and Monta are not horrible basketball players. They are horribly inconsistent basketball players. Like bottom of the barrel consistency wise. Brandon is raising his shooting percentage because he is having more good games thrown in with the bad lately, Monta is continuing to not have the good games an thus his is staying stagnant. The problem is, the only reason these guys shooting percentages aren't completely bottoming out is they have a very good game thrown in here and there. You cannot base consistent winning off of guys who cannot consistently bring what they are supposed to every night. Jordan Crawford can score 20 points and is just as inefficient as Monta, by your argument you could essentially replace Monta with him and we'd be just as well of right? I hate to bring him up because I hated the guy but case in point is Bogut. He was an atrocious scorer but he brought his defense to the table every night. With Brandon and Monta there is absolutely zero parts of their game you know they are going to bring every night. Not one.
You bring up "score and create" which I think is a load of ****. These guys do not create for others. They do their own thing 90% of the time down the court and sometimes that leads to them throwing it off to a teammate. They certainly do not go out there looking to create for other teammates ever. Hell, those two don't even create for themselves very well. When Monta's chucking up 8 shots a game he has no business shooting that isn't creating offense, same goes for Brandon on his heat checks and pull ups. These guys are me first through and through and their me first asset they aren't even very good at, scoring.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#48 » by ampd » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:13 am

TS% is great (and lineup / team efficiency is important) but as a singular stat that captures game to game offensive impact it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story for every player. I don't even see how that is controversial.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#49 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:25 am

ampd wrote:but as a singular stat that captures game to game offensive impact it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story for every player

But what story do you tell instead? That Monta and Brandon score 15 on 4-15 shooting three nights in a row but then score 30 efficiently next? Either eay you look at it I don't think you can quantify their scoring as a great asset. As I said above, go look at Jordan Crawford's game logs and tell me he's a worse player then Monta. You really can't.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#50 » by ampd » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:28 am

FWIW Jennings has shot over 50% FG (well over 60% TS in those games) in something like 15 of 36 games this season. That is hardly a good game 'here and there'.

Last season he shot over 45% in about half of his games (~30) again with over 60% TS in those games.

Over the last 2 seasons, ~40-45% of the time Jennings is a super efficient scorer who can carry the team on his back single handed. That is why a lot of people see potential in him, and its no wonder that we have a ridiculous record in those games.

In some of the games below those FG numbers he is around league average in TS but I am too lazy to figure that out at the moment.

His problem is that he has a tendency to have horrific nightmare games way too often when he isn't playing at a high level, and its often enough that it cancels out a lot of the good he does in the other games.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#51 » by cellomac1212 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:32 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:Sure, maybe an efficient scorer would have a hard time staying as efficient putting up 20 PPG, but I'll take an efficient 15 over an inefficient 20. Brandon and Monta are not horrible basketball players. They are horribly inconsistent basketball players. Like bottom of the barrel consistency wise. Brandon is raising his shooting percentage because he is having more good games thrown in with the bad lately, Monta is continuing to not have the good games an thus his is staying stagnant. The problem is, the only reason these guys shooting percentages aren't completely bottoming out is they have a very good game thrown in here and there. You cannot base consistent winning off of guys who cannot consistently bring what they are supposed to every night. Jordan Crawford can score 20 points and is just as inefficient as Monta, by your argument you could essentially replace Monta with him and we'd be just as well of right? I hate to bring him up because I hated the guy but case in point is Bogut. He was an atrocious scorer but he brought his defense to the table every night. With Brandon and Monta there is absolutely zero parts of their game you know they are going to bring every night. Not one.
You bring up "score and create" which I think is a load of ****. These guys do not create for others. They do their own thing 90% of the time down the court and sometimes that leads to them throwing it off to a teammate. They certainly do not go out there looking to create for other teammates ever. Hell, those two don't even create for themselves very well. When Monta's chucking up 8 shots a game he has no business shooting that isn't creating offense, same goes for Brandon on his heat checks and pull ups. These guys are me first through and through and their me first asset they aren't even very good at, scoring.


All great points that only the eyeball can make. I appreciate a take like this more than someone just telling me Monta and BJ suck, just look at their TS%. Jordan Crawford is an awesome scorer, but I don't think he could score 20ppg over the course of the season. In their 4 wins he averages nearly 24ppg, but in their 27 losses he only averages 14ppg. Monta or BJ is nowhere near that inconsistent. FG% wise, Monta is under his carer norm by around 7%, Jordan Crawford is right at his career norm of 40%. I'm just saying, no matter how much people laugh at inefficiency and "ppgz yall," scoring at around or above the 20ppg mark in the NBA is something only a few people can go out and do on a nightly basis. Most of your 15 point efficient scorers in the league are not creators on offense. They are guys that catch and shoot. When the offense is stagnant you need a player or two that can get off the shot they want when they want. Monta and BJ both possess that skill and the Bucks would be in severe trouble if they were to get rid of the only two people they have on the team that can do it for more traditional scorers. You think the offense is bad now and you got two players who can do something about it. If you want better offense, you need to get better scorers at the other positions (which in turn allows you to get rid of Monta)... But that is a whole different argument...
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#52 » by ampd » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:40 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:but as a singular stat that captures game to game offensive impact it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story for every player

But what story do you tell instead? That Monta and Brandon score 15 on 4-15 shooting three nights in a row but then score 30 efficiently next? Either eay you look at it I don't think you can quantify their scoring as a great asset. As I said above, go look at Jordan Crawford's game logs and tell me he's a worse player then Monta. You really can't.


What I mean is that it doesn't include turnovers, it doesn't capture the impact that a guy who sets good screens or somehow takes the pressure off other players in other ways than shooting the 3 at a high percentage (say, a hypothetical player who gets a lot of hockey assists or something) etc. A player who converts at a high percentage but is stupid and selfish and turns the ball over a lot (Maggette for example) can hurt an offense and reduce its efficiency even if they have a high TS% themselves.

There are a lot of ways that a player could contribute (or hurt) an offense other than simply converting on their shots at a high percentage. TS fails to capture all of them.

Its not that TS doesn't have value, its that its value lies in the context of a constellation of information to be considered. Again I don't see how that is controversial at all.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#53 » by cellomac1212 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:45 am

ampd wrote:FWIW Jennings has shot over 50% FG (well over 60% TS in those games) in something like 15 of 36 games this season. That is hardly a good game 'here and there'.

Last season he shot over 45% in about half of his games (~30) again with over 60% TS in those games.

Over the last 2 seasons, ~40-45% of the time Jennings is a super efficient scorer who can carry the team on his back single handed. That is why a lot of people see potential in him, and its no wonder that we have a ridiculous record in those games.

In some of the games below those FG numbers he is around league average in TS but I am too lazy to figure that out at the moment.

His problem is that he has a tendency to have horrific nightmare games way too often when he isn't playing at a high level, and its often enough that it cancels out a lot of the good he does in the other games.


Jennings impacts wins more than any other player on the Bucks. Bucks have a good shot at winning when he plays well. He's played well in half the games and you guys have won about half the games. He's learning as he goes and will become better over time. He's learning while dealing with the highest competition in basketball. He would probably be further along if he went to college but his progression is still decent to say the least. You don't even have to look as far as TS% to show when the team is going to win or lose, you can easily just look at a box score and traditional fg% when it comes to Jennings. It's not a matter of how or where he scored from, its a matter of did he simply make shots at a productive rate. Jennings scores when the team scores well, Monta scores when the team is sucking. Both players would be more efficient with a more well rounded offense. It is just far too often they are the only two scorers on the court for the Bucks and in turn hurts both of their rates at which they score... If Illy and Dunleavy score productively, the Bucks become a good to great basketball team. But if those two struggle, the Bucks have hardly no shot at winning... And I'm not talking about one or the other, both need to be scoring consistently. Also, don't think the sheer presence of Monta doesn't make it easier on everyone to score. Whether he is efficient or not, teams are going to key on him more than any other player on the Bucks...
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#54 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:49 am

ampd wrote:What I mean is that it doesn't include turnovers, it doesn't capture the impact that a guy who sets good screens or somehow takes the pressure off other players in other ways than shooting the 3 at a high percentage (say, a hypothetical player who gets a lot of hockey assists or something) etc. A player who converts at a high percentage but is stupid and selfish and turns the ball over a lot (Maggette for example) can hurt an offense and reduce its efficiency even if they have a high TS%.

There are a lot of ways that a player could contribute (or hurt) an offense other than simply converting on their shots at a high percentage. TS fails to capture all of them.

Its not that TS doesn't have value, its that its value lies in the context of a constellation of information to be considered. Again I don't see how that is controversial at all.

Sure, on intangible guys you can't really just look at TS% to show their worth on offense. We are talking about Monta and Brandon. They don't play off the ball, they don't set screens, they don't work off screens, in Monta's case not a single player in the world respects his jumper, in Brandon's case his dribble penetration is almost laughably bad, neither look to set up teammates consistently. There isn't one thing outside of trying to put the ball in the hoop that I think you can say either does well on the offensive end.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#55 » by cellomac1212 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:50 am

ampd wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:but as a singular stat that captures game to game offensive impact it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story for every player

But what story do you tell instead? That Monta and Brandon score 15 on 4-15 shooting three nights in a row but then score 30 efficiently next? Either eay you look at it I don't think you can quantify their scoring as a great asset. As I said above, go look at Jordan Crawford's game logs and tell me he's a worse player then Monta. You really can't.


What I mean is that it doesn't include turnovers, it doesn't capture the impact that a guy who sets good screens or somehow takes the pressure off other players in other ways than shooting the 3 at a high percentage (say, a hypothetical player who gets a lot of hockey assists or something) etc. A player who converts at a high percentage but is stupid and selfish and turns the ball over a lot (Maggette for example) can hurt an offense and reduce its efficiency even if they have a high TS% themselves.

There are a lot of ways that a player could contribute (or hurt) an offense other than simply converting on their shots at a high percentage. TS fails to capture all of them.

Its not that TS doesn't have value, its that its value lies in the context of a constellation of information to be considered. Again I don't see how that is controversial at all.


Good post!

I personally think the best stat is wins and losses and those stats are produced by the entirety of the team...
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#56 » by ampd » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:57 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:What I mean is that it doesn't include turnovers, it doesn't capture the impact that a guy who sets good screens or somehow takes the pressure off other players in other ways than shooting the 3 at a high percentage (say, a hypothetical player who gets a lot of hockey assists or something) etc. A player who converts at a high percentage but is stupid and selfish and turns the ball over a lot (Maggette for example) can hurt an offense and reduce its efficiency even if they have a high TS%.

There are a lot of ways that a player could contribute (or hurt) an offense other than simply converting on their shots at a high percentage. TS fails to capture all of them.

Its not that TS doesn't have value, its that its value lies in the context of a constellation of information to be considered. Again I don't see how that is controversial at all.

Sure, on intangible guys you can't really just look at TS% to show their worth on offense. We are talking about Monta and Brandon. They don't play off the ball, they don't set screens, they don't work off screens, in Monta's case not a single player in the world respects his jumper, in Brandon's case his dribble penetration is almost laughably bad, neither look to set up teammates consistently. There isn't one thing outside of trying to put the ball in the hoop that I think you can say either does well on the offensive end.


Beno Udrih has a TS% of .563. Jennings has a TS% of .512. Beno has played almost all of his minutes on a Bucks bench unit that has dominated opponents bench and is usually the more talented unit on the floor. Jennings has played almost all his minutes with the starting unit who has had guys like Luc / Larry / Daniels and almost always Monta Ellis and his .475 TS%. The Bucks starting unit has a terrible +/- and has often been the less talented unit on the floor offensively.

Team offensive efficiency:

Beno : 102.6 (off 103.4)
Jennings: 103.3 (off 102.4)

Somehow despite taking 25% of the team's shots 'inefficiently' (and Beno taking 20% of the team's shots very efficiently) the team is better offensively (against the other teams better players) with Jennings on the court. TS% does not explain that.

Again I am not hating on TS, its just not the only thing that matters.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#57 » by cellomac1212 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:02 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:What I mean is that it doesn't include turnovers, it doesn't capture the impact that a guy who sets good screens or somehow takes the pressure off other players in other ways than shooting the 3 at a high percentage (say, a hypothetical player who gets a lot of hockey assists or something) etc. A player who converts at a high percentage but is stupid and selfish and turns the ball over a lot (Maggette for example) can hurt an offense and reduce its efficiency even if they have a high TS%.

There are a lot of ways that a player could contribute (or hurt) an offense other than simply converting on their shots at a high percentage. TS fails to capture all of them.

Its not that TS doesn't have value, its that its value lies in the context of a constellation of information to be considered. Again I don't see how that is controversial at all.

Sure, on intangible guys you can't really just look at TS% to show their worth on offense. We are talking about Monta and Brandon. They don't play off the ball, they don't set screens, they don't work off screens, in Monta's case not a single player in the world respects his jumper, in Brandon's case his dribble penetration is almost laughably bad, neither look to set up teammates consistently. There isn't one thing outside of trying to put the ball in the hoop that I think you can say either does well on the offensive end.


I think what you just said is severely overstated. Monta is shooting 25% from the three point line and still is contested religiously from there. Nobody in the world is going to allow Monta to get off an open shot (unless by mistake). They have an absolute respect for his jump shot and would never let him shoot it like they do a Tony Allen type player. Secondly, BJ may not be the best finisher in the league, but good things happen for the Bucks when he gets in the lane. And with them not looking to setup players consistently, you have to look at who they are setting up. I see plenty of setups throughout the game that better scorers would do something with, but were talking about the Bucks here which lack many scoring threats. Larry Sanders only scores on the perfect setup (which happens about 5 times a game), Illyasova has either been passing up open shots or missing them for half a year, Duns gets all types of open looks from their setups, and the rest of the players on the Bucks really have no reason to even shoot the ball. You have a team full of inside scorers that need help to get the ball on the inside (a lot of help as they can't do it themselves). Your scoring issues are not due to two inefficient guards, it is due to having a team that doesn't shoot well and lacks scorers at almost every other position.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#58 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:12 am

ampd wrote:TS% is great (and lineup / team efficiency is important) but as a singular stat that captures game to game offensive impact it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story for every player. I don't even see how that is controversial.


It doesn't claim to capture game to game impact. It becomes very important, however, when applying it to players who take a ton of shots. There's a reason why nobody here brings up Udoh's TS%. The guy never shoots.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#59 » by Max Green » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:13 am

ampd wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:What I mean is that it doesn't include turnovers, it doesn't capture the impact that a guy who sets good screens or somehow takes the pressure off other players in other ways than shooting the 3 at a high percentage (say, a hypothetical player who gets a lot of hockey assists or something) etc. A player who converts at a high percentage but is stupid and selfish and turns the ball over a lot (Maggette for example) can hurt an offense and reduce its efficiency even if they have a high TS%.

There are a lot of ways that a player could contribute (or hurt) an offense other than simply converting on their shots at a high percentage. TS fails to capture all of them.

Its not that TS doesn't have value, its that its value lies in the context of a constellation of information to be considered. Again I don't see how that is controversial at all.

Sure, on intangible guys you can't really just look at TS% to show their worth on offense. We are talking about Monta and Brandon. They don't play off the ball, they don't set screens, they don't work off screens, in Monta's case not a single player in the world respects his jumper, in Brandon's case his dribble penetration is almost laughably bad, neither look to set up teammates consistently. There isn't one thing outside of trying to put the ball in the hoop that I think you can say either does well on the offensive end.


Beno Udrih has a TS% of .563. Jennings has a TS% of .512. Beno has played almost all of his minutes on a Bucks bench unit that has dominated opponents bench and is usually the more talented unit on the floor. Jennings has played almost all his minutes with the starting unit who has had guys like Luc / Larry / Daniels and almost always Monta Ellis and his .475 TS%. The Bucks starting unit has a terrible +/- and has often been the less talented unit on the floor offensively.

Team offensive efficiency:

Beno : 102.6 (off 103.4)
Jennings: 103.3 (off 102.4)

Somehow despite taking 25% of the team's shots 'inefficiently' (and Beno taking 20% of the team's shots very efficiently) the team is better offensively (against the other teams better players) with Jennings on the court. TS% does not explain that.

Again I am not hating on TS, its just not the only thing that matters.


Good post.
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Re: Brandon Jennings: Eastern Conference Player of Week 

Post#60 » by ampd » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:23 am

DrugBust wrote:
ampd wrote:TS% is great (and lineup / team efficiency is important) but as a singular stat that captures game to game offensive impact it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story for every player. I don't even see how that is controversial.


It doesn't claim to capture game to game impact. It becomes very important, however, when applying it to players who take a ton of shots. There's a reason why nobody here brings up Udoh's TS%. The guy never shoots.


I actually agree with 100% of that in principle.

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