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Boy even Frank is a hater.....

Frank Madden ‏@brewhoop
So Brandon Jennings had 13 assists in each of the first two games of the season, then went 33 games before cracking double-digits again.
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#3 same amount of players to win Players of the Week as the Heat

Baddy Chuck wrote:

cellomac1212 wrote:Two "Player of the Week" threads dedicated to bashing Monta... Hilarious...

When you have it all, you have it all.

This is obviously a statistical fluke. When you play the way Brandon does, it's guaranteed that every once in a while you will have a hot streak just by virture of the sheer number of games in which he shoots a ton of jumpers. He can get open any time he wants, and frankly I think teams leave him open on purpose. So he's going to be able to fire off a ton of jumpers any time he wants, and once every 4 or 5 games he'll make most of them. Furthermore, over the course of a season there will be a few stretches where he strings together a few good games in a row, even though his approach to the game actually hurts the team more than it helps.

If he was having high-scoring games by scoring on high-percentage shots and getting to the line, I'd feel differently. But this has been the story all 4 years now. People think he's just magically going to start being more consistent, but his high-volume jump-shots strategy guarantees that he won't be unless he becomes a much better shooter. And I don't see why that would happen now. If he had the talent to be a good shooter, he would be one by know. Lord knows he's had enough practice. We are all but assured that he will continue to have a Damon Stoudamire-esque career, and can only hope that the Bucks aren't the team foolish enough to pay him anywhere near what Stoudamire earned.

Stoudamire's prime seasons (age 25-29) per 36 were:

13.6/3.6/6.7/1.1 @ .462 TS
14.8/3.7/6.1/1.2 @ .508 TS
14.5/4.1/6.3/1.4 @ .519 TS
13.1/3.8/6.3/.9 @ .506 TS
11.2/4.2/5.6/1.1 @ .460 TS

Jennings at age 22 and 23, with some improvement yet to go is at:

19.5/3.5/5.6/1.6 @ .514 TS
17.7/3.5/5.6/1.9 @ .512 TS

Stoudamire never had a higher efficiency than his rookie season (.528 TS), while Jennings has upped his both seasons (and my money is on him upping it again by the time this year is over). Jennings is a better scorer and a better defender than Damon was. Do I wish Jennings improvement curve was higher? Absolutely. But he's a better player than Damon Stoudamire was.

You can win with Brandon as your starting PG assuming he gets to league average efficiency (normally high .520's TS), and he's not that far off. I wish we had a sure fire all-star at the position, but those that think it will be easy to upgrade the position beyond Jennings, especially getting a guy of comparable age that can grow with the current core, are mistaken.

I don't want to overpay either, but I'm also not in the "we need to replace Brandon at all costs" bandwagon either. I'd much rather see what he has in terms of development than to move him for a guy like Lowry or some of the other names I've seen here.

Just realize that jennings has a TS% of .530 over the last month


Ellis has a .469 over the same time span

Gay has a .466

Once Jennings gets his TS% to some number people like, everybody will be back on board. Brandon gets far too much criticism on this board and I have no problem paying him and hope the Bucks do.

Pay the man, draft well and let the team grow.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/88457 ... discussion

Adande:

And, sorry, I'd have to put Brandon Jennings ahead of Irving as well. Jennings has the Bucks hanging on to a playoff spot, while we're still waiting for the Cavs to hit double-digit victories. Jennings is averaging 20 points and seven assists in Milwaukee's victories. Irving will get his share of trips to the All-Star Game. For now, he still has the rookie-sophomore game to get him a trip to Houston.

Be awesome if Brandon could get the nod this year.

Jennings over Irving is crazy. I'm definitely in the keep Jennings boat, assuming we can't get a good trade offer, and we don't have to pay him crazy money. But that Cavs team has nothing besides AV and Irving, and AV has missed 15 games already. Can't use the team argument to decide all-stars.

LUKE23 wrote:Jennings over Irving is crazy. I'm definitely in the keep Jennings boat, assuming we can't get a good trade offer, and we don't have to pay him crazy money. But that Cavs team has nothing besides AV and Irving, and AV has missed 15 games already. Can't use the team argument to decide all-stars.

I don't disagree at all. Kyrie is the second best point in the world, but I do think Brandon could get on the team.

Team record should be irrelevant and I also don't think fans should vote unless the roster is selected and then fans vote in the starters.

Nebula1 wrote:Once Jennings gets his TS% to some number people like, everybody will be back on board.

You know this forum better than that. Once Jennings' TS% is to an "acceptable" number, the detractors will turn their attention back to his assists numbers. Or FG%. Or defense. Or "attitude." Or finishing ability. Or haircut. Its called an "agenda" for a reason.

Again, I'd love for the Bucks to be able to make some sort of temporary trade and bring in one of the garbage point guards I've seen tossed about this forum. We actually have it pretty dam good at the position.

JimmyTheKid wrote:

Nebula1 wrote:Once Jennings gets his TS% to some number people like, everybody will be back on board.

You know this forum better than that. Once Jennings' TS% is to an "acceptable" number, the detractors will turn their attention back to his assists numbers. Or FG%. Or defense. Or "attitude." Or finishing ability. Or haircut. Its called an "agenda" for a reason.

Again, I'd love for the Bucks to be able to make some sort of temporary trade and bring in one of the garbage point guards I've seen tossed about this forum. We actually have it pretty dam good at the position.

Okay that's mostly true, but this board is obsessed with TS% and once he achieves whatever statistic folks expect, many will flip. However you are absolutely correct about some who will find other criticisms.

Nebula1 wrote:

JimmyTheKid wrote:

Nebula1 wrote:Once Jennings gets his TS% to some number people like, everybody will be back on board.

You know this forum better than that. Once Jennings' TS% is to an "acceptable" number, the detractors will turn their attention back to his assists numbers. Or FG%. Or defense. Or "attitude." Or finishing ability. Or haircut. Its called an "agenda" for a reason.

Again, I'd love for the Bucks to be able to make some sort of temporary trade and bring in one of the garbage point guards I've seen tossed about this forum. We actually have it pretty dam good at the position.

Okay that's mostly true, but this board is obsessed with TS% and once he achieves whatever statistic folks expect, many will flip. However you are absolutely correct about some who will find other criticisms.

I think the TS% obsession is relatively knew because when I first started defending Jennings a couple years ago, the detractors used FG% as the end all be all statistic.

TS has been used for years because it's basically taking offensive rating and turning it into a percentage. FG% is a dinosaur.

The team record has been used for years now when filling out the All-Star bench. Pretty much why Redd made it in the 03/04 year but didn't make it the following season despite putting up better numbers. That's why I said if we keep winning and Brandon keeps playing well, raising his TS%, he will have a nice shot to make the team.

LUKE23 wrote:TS has been used for years because it's basically taking offensive rating and turning it into a percentage. FG% is a dinosaur.

Yeah, I know. I was referring to this forum's obsession with FG% as it related to Brandon Jennings. Someone would blindly throw 38%, 39%, 40% at me and I would come back with FT% and 3ptfg%. Or TS%, which is a much better way to evaluate a player in terms of shooting the basketball. But I'm not a big stat guy. Any stat can be used on its own to make any number of arguments. Theres way too much of that around here.

I think using stats is fine as long as you're using the right ones. We're in a day and age where nearly every statement can be put to a numerical test. The key is using the right sample sizes and right data.

LUKE23 wrote:I think using stats is fine as long as you're using the right ones. We're in a day and age where nearly every statement can be put to a numerical test. The key is using the right sample sizes and right data.

Agreed. But even though TS% is the "right" stat, TS% doesn't define Brandon Jennings as an NBA point guard. You can use all the "right" stats over the best sample sizes (seasons, careers) and you still wouldn't be able to begin to "define" a Bruce Bowen or Luc Richard Mbah a Moute's worth and impact on the basketball court.

With Jennings, especially in this forum, it doesn't matter what he does, some people will always want to pick the kid apart. I personally am a big fan and hope he's here for the long haul. He might be inconsistent at times, but he's still very young, and when he's played well, he's show the ability to play at a very high level. I hope he gets one of those last All-Star spots, and if he doesn't, I'll be curious to see how responds this season?