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ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies.

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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#201 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:17 pm

Granger is a much different fit than Amare. Indy needs the offense and Granger won't sabotage the D. He's more of a natural fit. I'll be surprised if we catch either Indy or Chicago, assuming no big move is made.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#202 » by daschysta » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:21 pm

gbmb34 wrote:6 weeks ago, Granger was going to have to save the Pacers. Now there is the possibility that he wrecks them like Amare. I wouldn't give up on catching Indy just yet.


Granger is still a very good player. Indiana was 8.1 points better on offense per 48 minutes and 3.6 points better on defense when Granger was on the floor. He's a very, very impactful offensive player for them, adding him to the best defense in the NBA is nothing but good. There is no downside, Granger's been out because he's getting orthykine injections, they strengthen the joint it isn't like surgery where there is an extended period of rehab. He's expected to be back at 100 percent of what he was, or perhaps even better since he's been able to rest some of his lingering pseudoinjuries. The only thing expected is a period to get back in game shape and get him into rhythm. He's already practicing with the team, and is reported to have no physical drawbacks.

He gives us scoring we desperately need, and he makes our starting lineup even bigger and longer. He's a good defender and held opposing small forwards to just 12 PER per 48 last season. He's exactly what we need. Amare on the otherhand can singlehandedly screw a defense and has regressed horribly on offense. none of that applies to Granger. He's just going to make the Pacers better, and if he can make our offense even average it could make Indiana legit darkhorse contenders when one takes into account their defense is tops in the NBA.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#203 » by jeremyd236 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:50 pm

Ayt wrote:
He was talking about the argument being made by the owners prior to the CBA. Also, sale value was very much a large part of the CBA negotiations.

Did you follow this at all? LeBron is the idiot?


You obviously aren't getting what I'm saying. I KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. The argument the owners made that they aren't making money (Quick aside: The NBA as a whole is making money, but almost half the owners in the league have lost money on their investment since purchasing their respective team...according to CBA negotiation tactics) But they WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT LOSING MONEY WHEN SELLING THE TEAM when throwing this statement out there.

Sale price may have been part of CBA negotiations, but the whole "we're losing money" thing was from annual operations. Example: Herb Kohl loses money every year from owning the Bucks. He obviously will make money if he sells them for more than he bought them for.

Look at this link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... als-110630

"The league contends that 22 of the 30 teams are losing money, to the tune of about $370 million per season collectively. "

PER SEASON. I don't know how many times I can stress this. Again, sale price/earnings may have been a factor in CBA negotiations but the whole "we're losing money" argument was on a YEAR TO YEAR OPERATIONAL BASIS.

Do YOU understand? I never thought I'd have to use my CPA certification to explain something on this board. To Lebron, perhaps...

Edit: I am in no way endorsing the owners and their accounting methods, rather stating my understanding of the owners' tactics used in CBA negotiations and how Lebron's comments are misguided and suggest inaccurate representations of what the owners actually meant, considering I do not believe anyone ever stated they were losing money on the sale of their teams.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#204 » by CanadaBucks » Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:46 pm

Anderson Varajao...imo the Cavs missed the boat badly on him. He has played now 81 out of a possible 230 games over the last 3 seasons. They gotta be wishing they pulled the trigger on a deal.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#205 » by Ayt » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:01 pm

jeremyd236 wrote:
Ayt wrote:
He was talking about the argument being made by the owners prior to the CBA. Also, sale value was very much a large part of the CBA negotiations.

Did you follow this at all? LeBron is the idiot?


You obviously aren't getting what I'm saying. I KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. The argument the owners made that they aren't making money (Quick aside: The NBA as a whole is making money, but almost half the owners in the league have lost money on their investment since purchasing their respective team...according to CBA negotiation tactics) But they WERE NOT TALKING ABOUT LOSING MONEY WHEN SELLING THE TEAM when throwing this statement out there.

Sale price may have been part of CBA negotiations, but the whole "we're losing money" thing was from annual operations. Example: Herb Kohl loses money every year from owning the Bucks. He obviously will make money if he sells them for more than he bought them for.

Look at this link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... als-110630

"The league contends that 22 of the 30 teams are losing money, to the tune of about $370 million per season collectively. "

PER SEASON. I don't know how many times I can stress this. Again, sale price/earnings may have been a factor in CBA negotiations but the whole "we're losing money" argument was on a YEAR TO YEAR OPERATIONAL BASIS.

Do YOU understand? I never thought I'd have to use my CPA certification to explain something on this board. To Lebron, perhaps...

Edit: I am in no way endorsing the owners and their accounting methods, rather stating my understanding of the owners' tactics used in CBA negotiations and how Lebron's comments are misguided and suggest inaccurate representations of what the owners actually meant, considering I do not believe anyone ever stated they were losing money on the sale of their teams.


Well, now that you were more clear in your position, I better understand where you are coming from. Still, your argument that LeBron is an idiot because of his comments is odd. The owners also did use the valuation and potential sale value of franchises in their argument that drastic changes needed to be made because so many teams were, apparently, losing money on a yearly basis.

I would think it would be obvious to someone with your background that the owners obliterated the players in this negotiation in terms of the financial impact. They also, sadly, had a huge amount of unwarranted sympathy from the fans.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#206 » by jeremyd236 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:15 pm

Ayt wrote:
Well, now that you were more clear in your position, I better understand where you are coming from. Still, your argument that LeBron is an idiot because of his comments is odd. The owners also did use the valuation and potential sale value of franchises in their argument that drastic changes needed to be made because so many teams were, apparently, losing money on a yearly basis.

I would think it would be obvious to someone with your background that the owners obliterated the players in this negotiation in terms of the financial impact. They also, sadly, had a huge amount of unwarranted sympathy from the fans.


I really was not calling him an idiot because I thought he was unaware or misunderstood the owners statements (although I said that), it's because I think he knows and chose to use the Maloofs making money to capitalize on a sensitive topic with the players. With that said, I obviously didn't recognize the degree to which owners were using valuation/resale arguments in their "losing money" statements.

Some of the sympathy is unwarranted, as you said, but not all of it is. Like I said earlier, on the whole, the NBA owners are not losing money as much as they claim to be (they're not actually losing money at all), but that's in the aggregate.

Herb Kohl, for example, loses real money every year he owns the Bucks. With the stipulation that the new owner keeps the team in Milwaukee, he's especially not likely to make money in total from his ownership of the Bucks. From a pure business/investment outlook, this is obviously a bad decision and it makes absolutely no sense. The only way to rationalize it is that he must really enjoy the Bucks and wants an NBA team in Wisconsin, which is a sentiment I appreciate (I'd have no team otherwise).

It's easier for me to be a little more sympathetic towards Herb Kohl than owners like the Maloofs, because he's losing money and likely could have sold the team for a profit on multiple occasions to buyers looking to move the team elsewhere. Kohl's situation may not be typical, but teams/owners around the league are losing money every year. For every LA Lakers or NY Knicks, there's a team like Milwaukee or Charlotte, however when Lebron and other players make statements directed at the owners making money, they fail to recognize that it's not even close that that league wide.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#207 » by Ayt » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:25 pm

Well, with the new CBA, even idiots like the Maloof's, who have managed to squander billions, could potentially own NBA teams in the future and make money. There is almost no risk involved in buying an NBA team with the new CBA provided you don't pay an unbelievable amount. Barring the complete collapse of the world economy, buying an NBA team for $500-750M is a rock solid investment. Actually, getting in now before the economy completely recovers from the recession is a great idea.

I enjoyed this analysis by Nate Silver, whom you may be familiar with, back when this all started.

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... -distress/

People who are pro-owner have argued that the owners take a huge financial risk by owning a team, but they actually do not, IMO. If they have the type of capital needed to purchase an NBA team, it is actually an extremely safe, and fun, investment. That is especially true now, when yearly income is nearly guaranteed on top of the appreciation of the team.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#208 » by Ayt » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:28 pm

To put it in simple terms, what risk is there for potential new owners right now compared to other ventures in which they could invest their vast sums of money? Buying an NBA team is actually an extremely safe investment, IMO. On the other hand, the players, like LeBron, who make the product, are undervalued by max contracts, the salary cap, and numerous restrictions on player movement. And beyond the players, the public largely pays for the arenas in which these players perform. The owners simply use their wealth to acquire ownership, but generally invest almost nothing into what actually makes the NBA worth something.

The new CBA is an owner's wet dream. Hell, the previous CBA was an owner's wet dream. Even if you lost a small amount of money in yearly revenue, and it was a small amount, you would still make it up in the sale value of the franchise. Now, you almost can't lose unless you spend an absurd amount when initially purchasing the team.

NBA owners are a joke. Owners of sports teams in general are a joke. They exploit the players and the public, and we let them. In fact, we even encourage it is a public.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#209 » by drew881 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 am

Gasol to now come off the bench...should be interesting.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#210 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 am

D'Antoni says Pau is moving to the bench permanently to play backup C to Dwight.


I can't see this lasting long.

You have to wonder if they would've been better off keeping the Odom/Bynum/Pau trio together. Even with Odom falling off the planet because that might not have happened if not traded. Bynum would still be hurt but that would mean Pau was starting at C so, who knows.

Just love watching them go down in flames after having the Steve Nash & Dwight Howard offseason.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#211 » by Max Green » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:07 am

Yep, Pau is ripe for the taking now. D'Antoni has done everything he can to humiliate him now, I zero reservations in trading for him with the fear that he would pout here. Danomac, text Hammond pls.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#212 » by drew881 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:09 am

I think they are still better off in the long run, and by that I mean post-Kobe Bryant phase. They will suck for the next year or two...next year maybe they will be ok and make ECF at best if they can get healthy and recharge. But I think Dwight will re-sign, and they will pick up someone great when Kobe retires.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#213 » by drew881 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 am

I would offer them Ersan, Daniels, Gooden and Harris for Gasol and Meeks. Unlike everyone else here, if I go after Gasol, I do it only by keeping Monta and at least have three good scorers.

Jennings/Udrih
Monta/Meeks
Moute/Dunleavy
Gasol/Henson
Sanders/Udoh

Even if it fails we can get rid of Gooden and Ersan's contract and get closer to starting over.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#214 » by blazza18 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:19 am

I don't know if I'm keen on Pau anymore. I'm all for dumping a few contracts on LA but I'm starting to believe Ersan has turned it around and I don't want to give up on Tobes just yet.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#215 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:19 am

Jrue Holiday is almost Rondo-esque in his ability to probe the defense and find openings.

Sixers mounted a huge 17 point comeback to lead by 5 over the Spurs with 3 minutes left in the 4th
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#216 » by Bad Midget » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:31 am

Sixers are awful. And Jrue Holiday just did a major choke job the last few possessions.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#217 » by Max Green » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:18 am

Dwight doesn't even look like he cares on the Defensive end anymore under D'Antoni. Proves that some guys need Coaches like SVG to scream at them all the time to get them to play hard.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#218 » by SkilesTheLimit » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:29 am

Bulls will win the Central easily as I thought. My 48-50 win prediction looks dead on. I'm trying to get you guys to buy in on my Thibs bandwagon. The dude is a top 3 coach in the NBA.
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#219 » by Bad Midget » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:44 am

SkilesTheLimit wrote:Bulls will win the Central easily as I thought. My 48-50 win prediction looks dead on. I'm trying to get you guys to buy in on my Thibs bandwagon. The dude is a top 3 coach in the NBA.


The bobcats would beat the lakers at this point
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Re: ATL: KG Barks, Melo cries, Knicks hire spies. 

Post#220 » by daschysta » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:00 am

SkilesTheLimit wrote:Bulls will win the Central easily as I thought. My 48-50 win prediction looks dead on. I'm trying to get you guys to buy in on my Thibs bandwagon. The dude is a top 3 coach in the NBA.


I'm not sure they catch Indiana. The Pacers are 16-3 at home and in February have 10 home games and 2 road games. Indy is 22-9 over their last 31 and is getting Granger back a month earlier than Chicago gets Rose back. I can buy the Bulls MAYBE winning the Central by the skin of their teeth, but they are in no way going to be winning the Central division "easily". Indy is already a game ahead despite playing 23 road games to Chicago's 17, and even though they pulled it off tonight against a terrible Los Angeles team in free fall, Chicago is going to lose some games since Deng is hurt again. Getting Granger back is massive for Indy and should ensure them winning the division since Chicago doesn't get Rose back until quite a bit after that. (Granger is back first week of February). You may have predicted 48-50 wins for Chicago, and you may even be right, but Indiana is on pace win more than 50, and thus the division.

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