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Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED)

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Would you trade Jennings before the deadline

Yes (if yes, let us know what it would take)
31
46%
No (what would you sign him to, long term)
36
54%
 
Total votes : 67

Post#121 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:49 pm by LUKE23

To me, the franchise is in a position where they will need to take some risks on the younger guys that appear to have more ceiling at some point. Ilyasova wasn't really a "ceiling" sign, I think Jennings would be. I realize many will disagree and that is fine and I understand the viewpoint. I really wish we could see how this team would operate with a true, 15-18 ppg high efficiency, non ball dominant SG AND Jennings before scrapping it though.

It just seems like we're only one solid SG piece away from pushing this thing up, and I feel like we could have the assets to get this done if we trade Monta, we'd be hopefully armed with two picks and mega cap space. The frontcourt to me is rock solid six deep. Guess we'll see what happens.
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Post#122 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:51 pm by ampd

Baddy Chuck wrote:
giraldo5 wrote:
ampd wrote:Kyle Lowry is not better than Jennings. That trade would be horrendous.

Perfect example of just looking at box scores and a couple random advanced stats on basketball reference not telling the whole story. The only thing Lowry does better than Jennings is have a higher career TS%.


He can dribble with both hands too.

He averages more assists with a lower usage rate as well.


His career AST% is 0.7% higher than Jennings.

His drtg and PER against are both actually worse (in the case of PER, a lot worse) and their synergy defensive stats are almost identical. And those games that Jennings single handedly makes our horrible offense much better and wins for us? Lowry won't do that. We would lose 5-10 more games this season if we just replaced Jennings with Lowry on our roster.

This myth that Lowry is a cheaper and better upgrade is exactly that. A myth. Lowry would be a great 5th best player on a team like the heat where he can shoot spot up 3s and swing the ball around the perimeter. Thats not what we need at all.
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Post#123 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:52 pm by ampd

I would rather trade Jennings straight up for the 25th pick or something (which would also be stupid but..) than take Lowry back for him or use him to take out a contract that we can just decide to negate without losing any assets in the process.
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Post#124 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:54 pm by Baddy Chuck

LUKE23 wrote:To me, the franchise is in a position where they will need to take some risks on the younger guys that appear to have more ceiling at some point. Ilyasova wasn't really a "ceiling" sign, I think Jennings would be. I realize many will disagree and that is fine and I understand the viewpoint. I really wish we could see how this team would operate with a true, 15-18 ppg high efficiency, non ball dominant SG AND Jennings before scrapping it though.

It just seems like we're only one solid SG piece away from pushing this thing up, and I feel like we could have the assets to get this done if we trade Monta, we'd be hopefully armed with two picks and mega cap space. The frontcourt to me is rock solid six deep. Guess we'll see what happens.

I would love to see Jennings with a good "true" shooting guard, but honestly I don't feel that helps his game. I'd say Jennings biggest problems are dribble penetration (and either scoring or passing out of it) and shot selection. Those are on Jennings and not any other player really.
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Post#125 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:55 pm by Bfinkish

LUKE23 wrote:To me, the franchise is in a position where they will need to take some risks on the younger guys that appear to have more ceiling at some point. Ilyasova wasn't really a "ceiling" sign, I think Jennings would be. I realize many will disagree and that is fine and I understand the viewpoint. I really wish we could see how this team would operate with a true, 15-18 ppg high efficiency, non ball dominant SG AND Jennings before scrapping it though.

It just seems like we're only one solid SG piece away from pushing this thing up, and I feel like we could have the assets to get this done if we trade Monta, we'd be hopefully armed with two picks and mega cap space. The frontcourt to me is rock solid six deep. Guess we'll see what happens.



my point exactly. completely agree.
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Post#126 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:56 pm by Baddy Chuck

ampd wrote:Lowry would be a great 5th best player on a team like the heat where he can shoot spot up 3s and swing the ball around the perimeter. Thats not what we need at all.

Have you ever watched him play? That is not his game at all. He is ELITE at driving to the lane and drawing contact.
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Post#127 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:56 pm by Bfinkish

ampd wrote:I would rather trade Jennings straight up for the 25th pick or something (which would also be stupid but..) than take Lowry back for him or use him to take out a contract that we can just decide to negate without losing any assets in the process.



larry harris? are you there?
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Post#128 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:58 pm by Baddy Chuck

ampd wrote:I would rather trade Jennings straight up for the 25th pick or something (which would also be stupid but..) than take Lowry back for him or use him to take out a contract that we can just decide to negate without losing any assets in the process.

Lowry was just traded for a top 10 pick, do you seriously think he's not worth more then a late first?
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Post#129 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:08 am by ampd

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:Lowry would be a great 5th best player on a team like the heat where he can shoot spot up 3s and swing the ball around the perimeter. Thats not what we need at all.

Have you ever watched him play? That is not his game at all. He is ELITE at driving to the lane and drawing contact.


Meh. He is having a career year doing it and is still a total non factor in terms of on court impact.
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Post#130 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:11 am by Baddy Chuck

ampd wrote:Meh. He is having a career year doing it and is still a total non factor in terms of on court impact. Yeah he has an awesome TS%. There is more to basketball than TS%

And Lowry has an advantage on just about every category besides pure PPG.
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Post#131 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:15 am by ampd

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:I would rather trade Jennings straight up for the 25th pick or something (which would also be stupid but..) than take Lowry back for him or use him to take out a contract that we can just decide to negate without losing any assets in the process.

Lowry was just traded for a top 10 pick, do you seriously think he's not worth more then a late first?


I think Toronto massively overpaid for him.

Yes I think he is worth more than the 25th pick. But not to us.

I am with Luke in the sense that I think this may be a situation where if Jennings is more valuable to us than he is to other teams, we may just have to bite the bullet and keep him even though he is currently an inconsistent and flawed player.

I realize we just value Lowry / Dragic a lot differently and probably can't agree on this.
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Post#132 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:17 am by Baddy Chuck

I don't think it's Lowry we don't agree on, I don't want him as our point guard of the future or anything, I just think he's an asset.

What we disagree on is Jennings. I just don't feel he's worth the risk as a player or asset on his new deal.
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Post#133 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:18 am by Bfinkish

ampd wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:I would rather trade Jennings straight up for the 25th pick or something (which would also be stupid but..) than take Lowry back for him or use him to take out a contract that we can just decide to negate without losing any assets in the process.

Lowry was just traded for a top 10 pick, do you seriously think he's not worth more then a late first?


I think Toronto massively overpaid for him.

Yes I think he is worth more than the 25th pick. But not to us.

I am with Luke in the sense that I think this may be a situation where if Jennings is more valuable to us than he is to other teams, we may just have to bite the bullet and keep him even though he is currently an inconsistent and flawed player.

I realize we just value Lowry / Dragic a lot differently and probably can't agree on this.



agreed. the lowry love is too much. jennings is 23, never played with a good sg (salmons, maggette, jackson, monta) and had the great skiles coach him. the hate has gone too far with jennings, just relax. dude will be great.
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Post#134 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:35 am by Baddy Chuck

Bfinkish wrote:agreed. the lowry love is too much. jennings is 23, never played with a good sg (salmons, maggette, jackson, monta) and had the great skiles coach him. the hate has gone too far with jennings, just relax. dude will be great.

And if we keep him I hope that is true. He was only a rookie, but his stats didn't change a single bit when he had Salmons playing like an all star next to him and personally I think blaming Skiles is the farthest thing from his problem. Maybe we'll see with a better offensive coach if Brandon is better, but Skiles gave him the green light from day one until the time he left and Brandon only slightly improved. We can really only look at his other stops but Kirk Hinrich was a young point guard who got better offensively overtime significantly with Skiles (and then completely tanked when he left) so I have a hard time believing Skiles was just a complete idiot misusing Jennings or something.
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Post#135 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:38 am by ampd

Baddy Chuck wrote:I don't think it's Lowry we don't agree on, I don't want him as our point guard of the future or anything, I just think he's an asset.

What we disagree on is Jennings. I just don't feel he's worth the risk as a player or asset on his new deal.


I agree that he'd be an asset in that he's almost guaranteed not to perform below that contract.
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Post#136 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:55 am by AussieBuck

ampd wrote:Kyle Lowry is not better than Jennings. That trade would be horrendous.

Perfect example of just looking at box scores and a couple random advanced stats on basketball reference not telling the whole story. The only thing Lowry does better than Jennings is have a higher career TS%.

He's better by every advanced stat that I've seen. Jennings might be the better on ball defender. Not sure what else he's better at.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#137 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:19 am by Bobicous

One big factor I think most of you are missing is Jennings is a name beyond just the NBA. He is that rare player that has fans outside the NBA and brings a focus to the Bucks that no other player they have or have talked about getting have. Just look at his commercials, or how his name was in the news all the time during the lockout from playing. That brings fans, sells jerseys, its a big part of the money part of the game.

The funny thing is people want to say nothing has improved with Jennings but the ignore improvement, just like about a month ago every is saying "he can't throw the lob" and yeat I see several high lights from almost every game of him lobbing to Sanders or Henson. The fact is the kid is a gym rat, he is willing to put the time in, does anyone really think he won't work on his offhand after getting it pointed out? Seems to like the Bucks and the city and at some level that has to matter. Not sure why people are going crazy about 4/10 for Jennings when we are paying close to that on scrubs like Ersanity and Gooden? At some point a small market team needs to take a risk and I can see alot of people I would be way more willing to move than Jennings.
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Post#138 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:26 am by ampd

AussieBuck wrote:
ampd wrote:Kyle Lowry is not better than Jennings. That trade would be horrendous.

Perfect example of just looking at box scores and a couple random advanced stats on basketball reference not telling the whole story. The only thing Lowry does better than Jennings is have a higher career TS%.

He's better by every advanced stat that I've seen. Jennings might be the better on ball defender. Not sure what else he's better at.


I'm willing to back off the word horrendous which was really just hyperbole. As far as player value goes, it would be nice to get a productive player back for Gooden, keep some cap space, and get a good roleplaying PG in Lowry. Asset value wise it probably isn't a massive win for either team since Gooden is such a negative asset at this point.

Amir and Lowry are both pretty good moneyball type players and I'm obviously fine with acquiring those guys on general principle.

My reaction to the trade was mostly a team direction standpoint. Trading a high upside guy who is wildly inconsistent but productive for a couple consistent but uninspiring guys is well.. uninspiring. And one of those guys is at a position where we have a billion players already who need minutes, and isn't significantly better than those players.It feels like kicking the can down the road for a season while staying in win now without getting any real win now players. Like trading a #2 or 3 option on a contender in Jennings for a #4 and #6 option. Spinning our wheels while managing to reduce our upside and virtually lock us into mediocrity for another season.
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Post#139 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 am by AussieBuck

I don't see Jennings as a high upside guy but I can see your POV.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#140 Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:47 am by Baddy Chuck

AussieBuck wrote:I don't see Jennings as a high upside guy but I can see your POV.

That's about where I am right now.

What is his potential?

Is he Damon Stoudemire who peaked early then fell off?
Is he Nick Van Exel who was a pretty consistently inconsistent player throughout his career?
Is he going to change his game completely and become a real team leader and raise his play like Chauncey Billups?
Is he going to raise his efficiency and just be a Mo Williams with more swag?
Is he going to improve his efficiency only a little but greatly improve his playmaking and become like Jrue Holiday?
Is he just going to stay the same Brandon we've seen for four years now?

I'd have to believe he's closer to the lower end of those scenarios.
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