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Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED)

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Would you trade Jennings before the deadline

Yes (if yes, let us know what it would take)
31
46%
No (what would you sign him to, long term)
36
54%
 
Total votes: 67

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Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely to be tradedu 

Post#496 » by Ayt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:11 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
mattg wrote:The question becomes, what happens with Jennings when you put him alongside a good offensive player who can take pressure off of him so he doesn't have to use so many offensive possessions because we have no chance to win if Jennings doesn't shoot a lot and shoot well. I'm talking about an efficient secondary(or even primary creator), not just an efficient catch and shoot player or something. Think about how good we look offensively at times playing Beno and Jennings together when beno is playing well, and now imagine that skillset in a SG or SF who could do it consistently.


how is this guy you describe to take the "load off jennings".... not monta ellis?

ellis big issue is his efficiency but that has nothing to do with what you just described as jennings "ideal" running mate. surely youre not suggesting that if ellis shot better that this would improve how jennings looks are you?

i hate the argument about how brandon would look if we paired him with a decent sg. wtf does that have to do with anything. how in the hell is another sg gonna help brandon unless he does all the things a damn pg is supposed to do for him. brandon is the pg... he doesnt play like one. he plays like a sg. the discussion should be how the rest of the team would look with a decent pg.


Watching Monta use possessions to chuck up shots that he misses doesn't take pressure off of Jennings. It adds pressure.

El Duderino wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:I would love to see Monta gone because I think it helps the team overall (and he's an asset you need to cash in on) but I'd be lying if I said it helped Brandon that much. His problems aren't tied into Monta. Not being able to dribble right, inconsistent jump shot and his problems converting or passing once he gets into the lane aren't a problem that Monta is throwing on Brandon's shoulders. One thing that could help him with a more consistent guy is the nights where Brandon feels like he has to chuck up shots to pick up the slack, but honestly, for every one of those nights there's a night where Brandon chucks up those shots anyways. It'll be interesting to see how long the excuses for being inconsistent run with Brandon.


I agree. Brandon thinks shoot first and second because that's just who he is as a player. It's in his basketball DNA. He's been a scorer first before coming to the NBA.

Unlike some people, i don't mind point guards who shoot quite a bit and aren't say 8-9-10 assists per game guys. Generally point guards who are great passers and who have great court vision, that's something which mostly came natural to them. It isn't taught or learned as much a gift they possess. Brandon wasn't blessed with that gift.

He can pass decently enough though to be a quality PG if he simply wasn't such a bricklayer. If he could finish better in the paint and get to the line. Basically, if he could score more efficiently to justify his natural inclination to shoot so often. After nearly four seasons done though, i've seen very little from Jennings to hold out serious hope that he'll ever be noticeably better than he currently is.


I'm not necessarily calling you out specifically, but it seems like a lot of people are hopeful that Baddy can become like Mo circa 2007-08 offensively. Can you even imagine Baddy having a TS% of .566? Can you imagine him with Mo's quick layup move, floater, and mid-range pull up to go along with Mo's three point shot? Young Mo crushes Baddy as a scorer.

If you put Mo's skillset in a much quicker and more athletic body like Baddy's, you have yourself a guy who can score 25+ with solid efficiency. Sadly, Baddy doesn't have anywhere close to the arsenal that Mo had.

I certainly also wouldn't argue that Baddy is a huge amount better as a creator for others. Frankly, we'd be much better off with 2007-08 Mo this season compared to Jennings.

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
giraldo5 wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:People defending Jennings makes it a "love fest". Oh my Jesus.


People arguing that he's in the same tier as Jrue Holiday specifically.

Im no Jennings lover, but is it even a question that he's on the same tier as Jrue Holiday? Holiday has had a better season this year yes, almost identical ppg with significantly better apg and slightly better rpg, but Jennings also gets more steals and turns the ball over less. As for their careers thus far id say jennings stas are slightly more impressive but i admit its very debatable based on their respective shooting percentages. At the same time, do u understand what it means for players to "be in the same tier"? U understand that two players can be in the same tier without them being equally good right? If two players are in the same tier they should be similar caliber players with similar impacts on their teams level of play, not equally good.

If u believe that Holiday is better than Jennings that's fine, I would definitely agree with u on that if that's what you're trying to say, but both players are as locked into the same tier as point guards at the moment as two players can be. It's not even debatable, that is unless you're allowing for there to exist close to a unique tier for each and every individual NBA player. If I was asked to pick players that are closet to Holiday in terms of not only trade value but also statistics and impact on his team Jennings would be like one of my top 3 choices. How is he in a lower tier?


If I have the choice of Jrue with his extension or Baddy with the exact same extension, I'm taking Jrue 100 times out of 100. The sad thing is, Baddy is likely going to get more.

I think Jrue is clearly the superior player right now. He's also on a much higher career trajectory given the huge step forward he's taken this year.

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ackypoo wrote:take a minute and look at chauncey billups career.

Take a look at the other 99% of all stars the past 20 years. There's always an exception or two to the rule because I'd have to think you are pointing out Steve Nash next.


I certainly am not worried about Baddy getting away and becoming a perennial All-Star type player. Do other people see that as a realistic scenario?

I think that really puts things in perspective for me. I see almost no chance that Baddy will become "the one that got away." Instead, I think I would see him as a player another team paid 10-12M for who was the exact same player we all knew he was while he was here.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#497 » by Baddy Chuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:48 am

Ayt wrote:I'm not necessarily calling you out specifically, but it seems like a lot of people are hopeful that Baddy can become like Mo circa 2007-08 offensively. Can you even imagine Baddy having a TS% of .566?

One thing in Brandon's defense though is though he is an 18 PPG player on bad efficiency, Mo was an 18 on good efficiency. If Brandon even raises his percentages to a respectable level (still a solid jump for him) he would likely be a 20-22 ppg player. But I guess that's not to say that Mo couldn't do that as well with lower efficiency.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#498 » by 4xBuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:04 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:If Brandon even raises his percentages to a respectable level (still a solid jump for him).


Dude, you are so addicted to your agenda, you’ll say anything… awful.

Bellyaching that a player with a TS of .513 the last two seasons is a solid jump away from a respectable level is pathetically laughable.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#499 » by Ayt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:10 am

ackypoo wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:
H2tObes wrote:ITT: People saying a 23 year old cant improve.

Can't improve? No. I'd say history presents itself very clearly that if you aren't a star in the league after your first four years, especially with the minutes Brandon got, your odds of finally breaking out in years 5 and on are very small.

who are you using as your examples besides starbury and like...stevie franchise? i dont see how you can disregard cassell/billups cause im too lazy to look up others.


So your argument is that Baddy has the chance to be an enormous outlier? Should we re-sign Udoh because he has a <0 chance to become Ben Wallace?

Maybe Baddy will become a Nash/Billups clone and win the MVP every year for the next 6 seasons! It is possible! Sign him!
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#500 » by Baddy Chuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:15 am

4xBuck wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:If Brandon even raises his percentages to a respectable level (still a solid jump for him).


Dude, you are so addicted to your agenda, you’ll say anything… awful.

Bellyaching that a player with a TS of .513 the last two seasons is a solid jump away from a respectable level is pathetically laughable.

League average is 53.1%. 1.8% is a pretty big jump. No agenda, it's a fact.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#501 » by Ayt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:16 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
4xBuck wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:If Brandon even raises his percentages to a respectable level (still a solid jump for him).


Dude, you are so addicted to your agenda, you’ll say anything… awful.

Bellyaching that a player with a TS of .513 the last two seasons is a solid jump away from a respectable level is pathetically laughable.

League average is 53.1%. 1.8% is a pretty big jump. No agenda, it's a fact.


Agreed. What is he talking about?
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#502 » by Baddy Chuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:24 am

Ayt wrote:Agreed. What is he talking about?

Apparently I have some blind hate for him but when I use stats to back up my arguments I am just wrong.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#503 » by 4xBuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:42 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:Apparently I have some blind hate for him but when I use stats to back up my arguments I am just wrong.


Now you’re playing the victim card- it’s amusing how haters always seem to do that.

Do have a link that he isn’t already respectable, especially when factoring in the crap offense & offensive talent he‘s had to play in/with, or are you just spewing hate?

Even though Jennings has already improved his TS by almost 4.0% from his first year to his last 2 years, you discount that. Yet, now claim a jump of 1.8% is “pretty big”… too funny!

Oh well, get yur hate on... Giddy up!
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#504 » by Ayt » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:47 am

4xBuck wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:Apparently I have some blind hate for him but when I use stats to back up my arguments I am just wrong.


Now you’re playing the victim card- it’s amusing how haters always seem to do that.

Do have a link that he isn’t already respectable, especially when factoring in the crap offense & offensive talent he‘s had to play in/with, or are you just spewing hate?

Even though Jennings has already improved his TS by almost 4.0% from his first year to his last 2 years, you discount that. Yet, now claim a jump of 1.8% is “pretty big”… too funny!

Oh well, get yur hate on... Giddy up!


So he went from **** awful to merely bad?

You do also realize, I'm sure, that the higher your TS% gets the harder it is to improve.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#505 » by 4xBuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:54 am

Ayt wrote:
So he went from **** awful to merely bad?

You do also realize, I'm sure, that the higher your TS% gets the harder it is to improve.


Giddy up!
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#506 » by whatthe_buck!? » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:20 am

Ayt, your points are well taken, but if u see the likely outcome being that we overpay Jennings on a long term extension in the 10-12 mil per range, and since u also believe there is a very low chance he improves much or at all as a player from where he is now, then that means the bucks are in deep sh*t in regard to our options with him and time is quickly running out. What is your preferred course of action, trade him before the deadline to the highest bidder? And would u be looking for another PG or just picks/young assets...
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#507 » by mlloyd10 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:37 pm

To everyone, don't bother arguing with Baddy, He will simply never like Jennings. Get over it and move on.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#508 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:38 pm

mattg wrote:What is defense to you then? Jennings ball pressure often eats up precious seconds of the shot clock which limits how much the offense can go to work. He also forces a lot of turnovers without gambling in e passing lanes.



This is an area where I'd be afraid we'd lose something if we moved Jennings. And an area where I can't buy into the nostalgia of Mo Williams, who was horrific at even applying on ball pressure. Mo would sit back in the free throw lane and invite the opposing PG to smoke a cigar and have a beer with him. And it would kill us. Jennings makes the opposing PG honest and that does have a strong effect on our defense.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#509 » by Thunder Muscle » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:39 pm

For me the biggest reason I consider trading Jennings is b/c I think he's a good piece but I don't ever view him as being a face of the franchise player for a championship team, and I think he's going to command 12M/year. If he was a more consistent shooter and you could move him to SG, I'd be more inclined to keep too, but he's cold more than hot. In the end I just don't know if he is going to be worth the payday he is going to get.

I could be wrong, I hope so as in the end I think they'll keep him.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#510 » by JimmyTheKid » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:35 pm

mlloyd10 wrote:To everyone, don't bother arguing with Baddy, He will simply never like Jennings. Get over it and move on.


Its easy to spot a "hater." How? They cherry pick. For example, Jennings has played plenty of good games this year. We've voted him the 'Player of the Game' in a Bucks win multiple times throughout the course of the first half of the season. The blind haters can never just say "Brandon was great and his play propelled the Bucks to victory." Its not in their DNA to do so. Because of some strange agenda. They have to cherry pick. If Brandon ends up with 25 points on 50% shooting, 7 assists, 5 rebounds, 4 steals, 4 turnovers, and plays pesky defense, the haters will post something along the line of: "Brandon was good in the first half of the 2nd quarter and made some shots down the stretch. But the rest of the game he was awful. Turning the ball over... taking and missing bad shots...missed Larry on a lob...dribbled too much...left the opposing point guard open for a 3..." But the Bucks WON and Jennings' play was the biggest factor in the WIN. Its amazing how many postgame threads have turned into sh*tfests because of some weird agenda.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#511 » by Chapter29 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:43 pm

I voted no, only because I like Jennings and wouldn't mind keeping him.

Now we don't know is what type of offers we'd receive for him and I will trade anyone on this team if the offer is right. My guess is that he will not be traded and will be resigned, sadly likely overpaying.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#512 » by ackypoo » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:44 pm

Ayt wrote:
So your argument is that Baddy has the chance to be an enormous outlier? Should we re-sign Udoh because he has a <0 chance to become Ben Wallace?

Maybe Baddy will become a Nash/Billups clone and win the MVP every year for the next 6 seasons! It is possible! Sign him!

no, my point was pretty clearly stated, jennings is 23 and people get better.

thats not an outlier if you look at any pg career archs.
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#513 » by J-Nut » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:58 pm

I'm still of the belief that the Bucks should trade Ellis for a player like O.J. Mayo, Arron Afflalo, or Wesley Mathews. I think Jennings play would look a lot better with one of those guys next to him.
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Re: Ford: Jennings #7 on players most likely to be traded 

Post#514 » by Lippo » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:30 pm

ackypoo wrote:jennings > lowry

now, in the past, and in the future.

everyone wanting to use metrics to measure this garbage might wanna check win shares. beyond lowry's better season, theyre similar, and jennings is 3 years younger.


I concur
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Re: Potential Jennings trade thread (POLL ADDED) 

Post#515 » by jakecronus8 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:32 pm

J-Nut wrote:I'm still of the belief that the Bucks should trade Ellis for a player like O.J. Mayo, Arron Afflalo, or Wesley Mathews. I think Jennings play would look a lot better with one of those guys next to him.


Why would a team trade any of those guys for Ellis is my question.
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