ImageImage

PG: Bucks beat Portland

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
CanadaBucks
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,374
And1: 314
Joined: Sep 14, 2012

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#141 » by CanadaBucks » Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:54 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
CanadaBucks wrote:Holiday has had a nice half season but you guys are getting carried away with potential impact here.

Isn't it very well that this could just be the year he broke out though? Brandon's a year older and most are willing to give him 4 more years to finally break away from him norm.

We would clearly have a better record replacing Brandon for Jrue these 40 games. Maybe Jrue numbers drop drastically but I like to go by what I've seen. Jrue has busted free from his "projected norm", Brandon is still looking to do that.

I'm 100% willing to stick by what I've said. You give me Jrue we've seen for 40 games going forward instead of the Jennings we've seen for 40 games and this team is a tier above where it is now. We'd be right up there with a Rose-less Bulls and Indy.


We'll never know either way
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#142 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:08 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:I think we're about a 40 win team right now. You give a point guard who is better at scoring, much better at creating for others and who can defend the tougher guard between he and Monta every night rather easily and I think we can be that Indy level team and win 48 games. You give me a shooting guard who can defend a little, give me 15-20 a night and shoot the three a reasonable rate and I think you could probably win 50.


If we're a 40 win team with BJ, we're like a 42=43 win team with this years Jrue. I don't think you have any idea what 8 wins of impact means in terms of player difference. That is a HUGE number. Hell, if Jrue makes that much of a difference for a team Philly is easily over .500 with him regardless of the rest of their roster.

There is just no way I will agree with this take so we might as well agree to disagree. Your hate of Jennings is clouding your judgment here.
giraldo5
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 109
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#143 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:14 am

LUKE23 wrote:
Baddy Chuck wrote:I think we're about a 40 win team right now. You give a point guard who is better at scoring, much better at creating for others and who can defend the tougher guard between he and Monta every night rather easily and I think we can be that Indy level team and win 48 games. You give me a shooting guard who can defend a little, give me 15-20 a night and shoot the three a reasonable rate and I think you could probably win 50.


If we're a 40 win team with BJ, we're like a 42=43 win team with this years Jrue. I don't think you have any idea what 8 wins of impact means in terms of player difference. That is a HUGE number. Hell, if Jrue makes that much of a difference for a team Philly is easily over .500 with him regardless of the rest of their roster.

There is just no way I will agree with this take so we might as well agree to disagree. Your hate of Jennings is clouding your judgment here.


I wouldn't argue 8 games of improvement but I think 5-6 is very realistic and likely. Jrue's a clear tier ahead of Jennings
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 49,549
And1: 22,615
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
 

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#144 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:17 am

Bobicous wrote:Baddychuck did Jennings do your girlfriend on top of you after he took your lunch money??? Look at the assist totals on the 6ers after Jru, its 3 and change from turner then everyone is under 2. Now look at the bucks with Jennings and Monte both just above 5 then Udrih at 3 and change, see how the Bucks offense spreads the ball control around more than Philly??? (oh and the starters for Philly shoot .461 vs .422 for the Bucks, might help to get more assist when people can actually hit shots!)

This isn't even about how much I don't like Brandon, I think Jrue is just that much better of a player. I'd trade Jennings for a guy like Lowry because I don't want to pay Jennings going forward, that isn't the same case here. I genuinely think Jrue is a much, much better player then Jennings.

As for the assist thing, I think that's one thing I think proves even more that Brandon isn't a great passer. Monta has shown that pick and roll play is possible with the squad we have. We've seen some absolutely beautiful plays with him in the pick and roll, we really haven't seen that from Brandon. Beno is great at driving into the lane and drawing guys and doing small little handoffs to guys, once again, Brandon has a ton of trouble getting to those spots and even more trouble converting.

Bobicous wrote:Also if Jru is all that and a bag of chips and makes his team so great why are they 6 games under 500 and the Bucks are over 500?.

Our defense is great. Our offense isn't what is winning us games like how Philly is forced to do without a center. Jrue is a better defender then Jennings so that would add to our defense as well.

Bobicous wrote:To people who think Jennings can't dish watch him when he played the Lockout summer games with people who can actually finish and you see a guy who is willing to pass and does a damn nice job of it but other than Duns he hasn't had a good finisher on this team in forever.

Not even sure how to respond to this. When they don't call anything and there is absolutely no defense being played in an NBA game maybe the situations could be somewhat comparable. Might as well sign Hot Sauce, he's got to be able to break down LRMAM with his sick handles right?

Bobicous wrote: The Bucks have issues but putting Jennings at the top of your list is very very strange! How about dump Monte who has been good in like 5 games, trade for a quality big that can finish, and ride Jennings through the year and then if you don't like the numbers to sign him you move on and use all that freed up money to sign from the tons of quality PGs that are better than Jennings. To be honest I would love for him to go to a team like the Knicks or Lakers and watch him blow up with quality players around him.

Jennings isn't on the top of my list, but his upcoming free agency makes this deadline with him moving forward pretty important. Every impression we're getting seems to indicate he's getting over $10 million a year. I don't think his play to now warrants that type of contract and I'm (obviously the minority) not sure sure he's all that much better then we've seen.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#145 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:17 am

He's better this year but they are in the same tier for career play and trajectory.

Jennings: 17.9 points, 3.7 rebounds, 5.7 assists, 1.6 steals, .273 AST, .121 TO, .256 USG, .496 TS, .094 WS/48

Holiday: 14.5 points, 3.9 rebounds, 6.2 assists, 1.5 steals, .282 AST, .169 TO, .216 USG, .518 TS, .081 WS/48
giraldo5
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 109
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#146 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:20 am

LUKE23 wrote:He's better this year but they are in the same tier for career play and trajectory.


I'll agree to disagree. Jennings has never been nearly as impressive as Holiday has been this year. Plus Holiday is a year younger. Holiday has made the jump that people have been waiting on Jennings for 4 years.
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#147 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:23 am

There is 9 months of age difference and their career numbers are posted above. Agreed that Holiday has been better this year, however to say he's in a "different tier" isn't accurate.
User avatar
blazza18
RealGM
Posts: 53,233
And1: 26,441
Joined: Dec 02, 2010
       

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#148 » by blazza18 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:30 am

I think Holiday's come into his own has Philly's first option. No doubt he is playing really well this season and its better than any season Jennings has had. I'm actually shocked that his and BJ's career numbers are so similar.

I'm torn on which one I'd rather want.
Baddy Chuck wrote:I want to win but I also love chaos.
giraldo5
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 109
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#149 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:32 am

Except for Jennings is looking like a future Jamal Crawford and Holiday looking like a top 10 PG which Jennings has never shown
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 49,549
And1: 22,615
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
 

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#150 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:32 am

LUKE23 wrote:There is 9 months of age difference and their career numbers are posted above. Agreed that Holiday has been better this year, however to say he's in a "different tier" isn't accurate.

Which I think it's to dumb to base them off their previous averages. Literally this entire week we've been talking how Brandon could break out. By all accounts, Jrue is breaking out right now before our eyes. This isn't a week stretch, or a month, he's done it for 40 games. If Jennings had a stretch of 40 games and I tried comparing those numbers to his previous seasons I'd probably get my head chewed off because that was "before his breakout".
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 72,264
And1: 6,213
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#151 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:34 am

I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 60,878
And1: 25,845
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#152 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:37 am

giraldo5 wrote:Except for Jennings is looking like a future Jamal Crawford and Holiday looking like a top 10 PG which Jennings has never shown


Holiday's numbers his last ten games are excellent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3995/jrue-holiday

Agree with those saying he continues to improve week by week. He's breaking out into a 20/10 player on efficient shooting. He's 6-4" and stronger than Jennings.

We are all jumping up and down about Brandon's recent hot streak with his 3-pt shooting skilz.....Jrue is taking almost 4 per game in January and hitting 41% of them. Holiday is essentially matching one of Brandon's considered strengths.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 49,549
And1: 22,615
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
 

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#153 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:05 am

LUKE23 wrote:I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.

Maybe I'm wrong. I see Jrue having an exceptional year. I see Brandon having his normal year. This year when Brandon plays well we do very well. When he plays bad, we usually lose. Considering how much more consistent Jrue is then Brandon, and that his good is just as good as Brandon, I don't think it's to far out there to say maybe Brandon has 16 bad games this year and that we could easily win half of those with a guy like Jrue instead.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
giraldo5
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 109
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#154 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:34 am

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.
User avatar
ampd
RealGM
Posts: 21,268
And1: 4,883
Joined: Dec 06, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#155 » by ampd » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:39 am

giraldo5 wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.


You should have asked if the Bucks would be 8 games better with Holday, since I am guessing that almost nobody here is arguing that Brandon has had the better season so far.
User avatar
trwi7
RealGM
Posts: 110,824
And1: 26,315
Joined: Jul 12, 2006
Location: Aussie bias
         

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#156 » by trwi7 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:44 am

ampd wrote:
giraldo5 wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.


You should have asked if the Bucks would be 8 games better with Holday, since I am guessing that almost nobody here is arguing that Brandon has had the better season so far.


I think it's fine the way he has it. If they think Holiday is much better (maybe not 8 games or whatever) they'll just vote for Holiday by a lot.
stellation wrote:What's the difference between Gery Woelful and this glass of mineral water? The mineral water actually has a source."


I Hate Manure wrote:We look to be awful next season without Beasley.
giraldo5
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 109
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#157 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:52 am

trwi7 wrote:
ampd wrote:
giraldo5 wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.


You should have asked if the Bucks would be 8 games better with Holday, since I am guessing that almost nobody here is arguing that Brandon has had the better season so far.


I think it's fine the way he has it. If they think Holiday is much better (maybe not 8 games or whatever) they'll just vote for Holiday by a lot.


Yeah tried wording it the best I could and without showing any bias.
User avatar
ampd
RealGM
Posts: 21,268
And1: 4,883
Joined: Dec 06, 2010

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#158 » by ampd » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:34 am

If you want to know people's opinion on how many more games the bucks would win with Holiday instead of Jennings you should probably ask that question.
User avatar
Baddy Chuck
RealGM
Posts: 49,549
And1: 22,615
Joined: Apr 18, 2006
 

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#159 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:43 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.

Maybe I'm wrong. I see Jrue having an exceptional year. I see Brandon having his normal year. This year when Brandon plays well we do very well. When he plays bad, we usually lose. Considering how much more consistent Jrue is then Brandon, and that his good is just as good as Brandon, I don't think it's to far out there to say maybe Brandon has 16 bad games this year and that we could easily win half of those with a guy like Jrue instead.

To kind of further my point and obviously it's not a forgone conclusion but don't you think we could pretty easily win these games if Jennings played more consistent like Holiday?

11/10 4 point loss to Boston - 1-11, 4 points, 5 assists
11/19 4 point loss to Charlotte - 5-18, 10 points, 5 assists
12/22 12 point loss to Cleveland - 3-13, 7 points, 3 assists
12/30 2 point loss to Detroit - 3-12, 9 points, 4 assists

I'd say their games where they really blow up for like 25+ are pretty even (might even favor Holiday) and his passing is much better so I'd think the games where Jennings wills your team to victory could be pretty much replaced by Holiday but the games where Jennings is pretty much trash would be a lot less often with Holiday. Over the course of the year I could see it being 8 or so games.
John Henson wrote:This lady just asked me who I play for and I said the Milwaukee Bucks, she quickly replied “oh the highschool across the street?”
User avatar
AussieBuck
RealGM
Posts: 41,650
And1: 19,674
Joined: May 10, 2006
Location: Bucks in 7?
 

Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#160 » by AussieBuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:53 am

showtimesam wrote:It was fun watching Terry Stotts' offense make no effort to get Aldridge the ball in positions to score. Aldridge easily would have put up 30 plus points last night with Sanders missing so much time if they posted him up.

The Blazers might as well deal him if they are going to hold onto good ol Terry as coach.

Aldridge is a vag.
emunney wrote:
We need a man shaped like a chicken nugget with the shot selection of a 21st birthday party.


GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
if you combined jabari parker, royal ivey, a shrimp and a ball sack youd have javon carter

Return to Milwaukee Bucks