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PG: Bucks beat Portland

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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#151 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:34 am

I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#152 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:37 am

giraldo5 wrote:Except for Jennings is looking like a future Jamal Crawford and Holiday looking like a top 10 PG which Jennings has never shown


Holiday's numbers his last ten games are excellent.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3995/jrue-holiday

Agree with those saying he continues to improve week by week. He's breaking out into a 20/10 player on efficient shooting. He's 6-4" and stronger than Jennings.

We are all jumping up and down about Brandon's recent hot streak with his 3-pt shooting skilz.....Jrue is taking almost 4 per game in January and hitting 41% of them. Holiday is essentially matching one of Brandon's considered strengths.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#153 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:05 am

LUKE23 wrote:I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.

Maybe I'm wrong. I see Jrue having an exceptional year. I see Brandon having his normal year. This year when Brandon plays well we do very well. When he plays bad, we usually lose. Considering how much more consistent Jrue is then Brandon, and that his good is just as good as Brandon, I don't think it's to far out there to say maybe Brandon has 16 bad games this year and that we could easily win half of those with a guy like Jrue instead.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#154 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:34 am

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#155 » by ampd » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:39 am

giraldo5 wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.


You should have asked if the Bucks would be 8 games better with Holday, since I am guessing that almost nobody here is arguing that Brandon has had the better season so far.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#156 » by trwi7 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:44 am

ampd wrote:
giraldo5 wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.


You should have asked if the Bucks would be 8 games better with Holday, since I am guessing that almost nobody here is arguing that Brandon has had the better season so far.


I think it's fine the way he has it. If they think Holiday is much better (maybe not 8 games or whatever) they'll just vote for Holiday by a lot.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#157 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:52 am

trwi7 wrote:
ampd wrote:
giraldo5 wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1227480

Just to see what unbiased opinions think on the matter.


You should have asked if the Bucks would be 8 games better with Holday, since I am guessing that almost nobody here is arguing that Brandon has had the better season so far.


I think it's fine the way he has it. If they think Holiday is much better (maybe not 8 games or whatever) they'll just vote for Holiday by a lot.


Yeah tried wording it the best I could and without showing any bias.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#158 » by ampd » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:34 am

If you want to know people's opinion on how many more games the bucks would win with Holiday instead of Jennings you should probably ask that question.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#159 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:43 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.

Maybe I'm wrong. I see Jrue having an exceptional year. I see Brandon having his normal year. This year when Brandon plays well we do very well. When he plays bad, we usually lose. Considering how much more consistent Jrue is then Brandon, and that his good is just as good as Brandon, I don't think it's to far out there to say maybe Brandon has 16 bad games this year and that we could easily win half of those with a guy like Jrue instead.

To kind of further my point and obviously it's not a forgone conclusion but don't you think we could pretty easily win these games if Jennings played more consistent like Holiday?

11/10 4 point loss to Boston - 1-11, 4 points, 5 assists
11/19 4 point loss to Charlotte - 5-18, 10 points, 5 assists
12/22 12 point loss to Cleveland - 3-13, 7 points, 3 assists
12/30 2 point loss to Detroit - 3-12, 9 points, 4 assists

I'd say their games where they really blow up for like 25+ are pretty even (might even favor Holiday) and his passing is much better so I'd think the games where Jennings wills your team to victory could be pretty much replaced by Holiday but the games where Jennings is pretty much trash would be a lot less often with Holiday. Over the course of the year I could see it being 8 or so games.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#160 » by AussieBuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:53 am

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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#161 » by Max Green » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:23 am

I wonder if Portland will make a move for some depth and a legit starting Center. They are destined to be a late lottery team starting Hickson at Center.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#162 » by Baddy Chuck » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:14 am

Max Green wrote:I wonder if Portland will make a move for some depth and a legit starting Center. They are destined to be a late lottery team starting Hickson at Center.

I think Matthews for Gortat benefits both teams.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#163 » by blazza18 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:26 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
Max Green wrote:I wonder if Portland will make a move for some depth and a legit starting Center. They are destined to be a late lottery team starting Hickson at Center.

I think Matthews for Gortat benefits both teams.


Matthews for Dalembert/Daniels works for us ;)
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#164 » by coolhandluke121 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:05 pm

LUKE23 wrote:I agree recently play matters, but I'm taking the entire career sample over half a season. These guys aren't different tiers based on that half season is all I'm saying. If Jrue was that much better than Brandon in terms of win impact though, no chance in living hell Philly is six games under with a terrible PPG differential right now, regardless of their supporting cast. None.


Philly would be more than 6 games under .500 with Jennings. That's all that matters. Raw record doesn't matter. Holiday does everything better than Jennings, and does most things MUCH better. He has this year anyway. This whole argument is about why Jennings doesn't have a case for the all-star game over Holiday or Irving. No case whatsoever. Those two have been the far superior players this season.

And it's not "8 games better" or "10 games better" like you keep saying. It's just 3 or 4 stinking games. Holiday is playing like prime Billups right now. He is easily that much better than Brandon. Jennings mails it in on a regular basis, so just get an equally talented player who actually comes to play every night and you'd easily see a 3-win improvement.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#165 » by giraldo5 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:21 pm

ampd wrote:If you want to know people's opinion on how many more games the bucks would win with Holiday instead of Jennings you should probably ask that question.



Well actually I wanted to know if they were in the same tier. If you want to know your question then feel free to ask that. Based upon the results I think the verdict is rather clear for people saying there is no real difference going forward.

They are either in the same tier barely with Holiday at the top of the tier and Jennings at the bottom or holiday is a clear tier ahead of him.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#166 » by LUKE23 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:01 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:Philly would be more than 6 games under .500 with Jennings. That's all that matters. Raw record doesn't matter. Holiday does everything better than Jennings, and does most things MUCH better. He has this year anyway. This whole argument is about why Jennings doesn't have a case for the all-star game over Holiday or Irving. No case whatsoever. Those two have been the far superior players this season.

And it's not "8 games better" or "10 games better" like you keep saying. It's just 3 or 4 stinking games. Holiday is playing like prime Billups right now. He is easily that much better than Brandon. Jennings mails it in on a regular basis, so just get an equally talented player who actually comes to play every night and you'd easily see a 3-win improvement.


First of all, you have a massive bias against Jennings and always have and it clearly flows through in every one of your posts regarding him. That being said, I'll respond anyway.

Baddy Chuck said we could "easily be 10 games over .500" if we had Holiday right now. That means 25-14 or whatever, which is 4 games better through a half season, or 8 games through a full season.

I have already agreed Holiday is better this year. To argue he is that much better means he is one of the best players in the NBA. Which also means there is no chance Philly is 6 games under .500 with over a negative 4 ppg point differential.

These players aren't on "different tiers". Holiday is better this year, for career he's slightly ahead and the players are of comparable ages. But hey, by all means, lets keep letting the hyperbole fly.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#167 » by Thunder Muscle » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:31 pm

What is the general take on Moute right now? Statisically it looks like he's having a rough year. Majority of his #'s are below his career average. His usage and field goal attempts are the highest ever, but his TS% is 5% below his career average at 46.3% and his Offense Rating is 93 (career avg 107). His FG% is just under 41% and his FT% is down. His turnovers are up. I don't know what stat people generally use (if any) to determine defensive prowess, but his D rating is at 105 which is around his career average.

Its funny on the eye ball test I felt Moute has become a better offensive player, but then looking at the stats it paints a totally different picture.

(All stats from Basketball Reference)
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#168 » by crkone » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:39 pm

N8Frog wrote:What is the general take on Moute right now? Statisically it looks like he's having a rough year. Majority of his #'s are below his career average. His usage and field goal attempts are the highest ever, but his TS% is 5% below his career average at 46.3% and his Offense Rating is 93 (career avg 107). His FG% is just under 41% and his FT% is down. His turnovers are up. I don't know what stat people generally use (if any) to determine defensive prowess, but his D rating is at 105 which is around his career average.

Its funny on the eye ball test I felt Moute has become a better offensive player, but then looking at the stats it paints a totally different picture.

(All stats from Basketball Reference)

LRMAM has been attacking but hasn't been making shots. Its a new role for him.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#169 » by Thunder Muscle » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:45 pm

crkone wrote:
N8Frog wrote:What is the general take on Moute right now? Statisically it looks like he's having a rough year. Majority of his #'s are below his career average. His usage and field goal attempts are the highest ever, but his TS% is 5% below his career average at 46.3% and his Offense Rating is 93 (career avg 107). His FG% is just under 41% and his FT% is down. His turnovers are up. I don't know what stat people generally use (if any) to determine defensive prowess, but his D rating is at 105 which is around his career average.

Its funny on the eye ball test I felt Moute has become a better offensive player, but then looking at the stats it paints a totally different picture.

(All stats from Basketball Reference)

LRMAM has been attacking but hasn't been making shots. Its a new role for him.


So he gets a free pass? And I actually think he's taking more jumpers and 3's than ever. I know he has 3's b/c he's had 32 3PT Attempt in his first 4 years combined and has 17 3PT attempts in 25 games this year.
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Re: PG: Bucks beat Portland 

Post#170 » by Epicurus » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:58 pm

Max Green wrote:I wonder if Portland will make a move for some depth and a legit starting Center. They are destined to be a late lottery team starting Hickson at Center.

Hickson is the least of Portland's concerns. Not having anyone on the bench who would be a 6th-8th player on a decent team, or actually any other team, is their premier problem now. Perhaps one of the four other rookies not name Lillard will contribute more and better in the second half of the season. If Leonard didn't get injured and been out for several weeks, it probably would have been him (and hence depth and variety at the 5, and even 4 as Hicksdon could then spel Aldridge). This would be a hell of a team with their starters and the Bucks bench.

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