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PG: Brandon > Holiday

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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#81 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:32 am

JayMKE wrote:Gasol could be a franchise crippling move. Only a fool would trade for him at this point.

This is absolutely insane to me. You'd be giving up no young players, no young players besides maybe Ekpe would be losing minutes and you only have Gasol for 1 more season. Franchise crippling deal is the furthest thing that this trade is. We're talking Ersan. At his best he's going to be a 15/8 guy and a third or fourth option on a championship team. We aren't going to be a championship team in the next 5 years.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#82 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:32 am

If you trade for Pau, I want two things or else don't do the deal.

A) Either Ersan or Gooden's long term money has to go, unless they would accept just Monta and Dalembert

B) if we trade them either Beno or Monta, Hammond and Kohl need to be ready to nut up and give up our first and/or Tobias to get Afflalo or an equivalent SG. Otherwise we are still going to straddle the fence with vets and young guys. Go all in win now or go home.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#83 » by SkilesTheLimit » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:34 am

If I'm the Bucks I do this deal and don't look back.

Ersan is the model of inconsistency and you just doled out a big contract to him and are probably having second thoughts. Plus, this frees the log-jam long-term at PF with he and Henson.

My big reason is the playoffs. If you truly want to win a playoff series, you have to be able to play good half-court basketball. This team is built to run but in the playoffs, it's lockdown D and less run and gun. Gasol fits that billing with the ability to score down low as a go-to guy in the post (we have none right now) and would be an ideal complement to Sanders. Plus, after next season, his #'s come off the books and he should have groomed Henson enough to allow him to take over the full-time PF reigns.

Pull the trigger or be 1st round and out.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#84 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:35 am

bigkurty wrote:What worries me about doing the trade is if we use Gasol down low, now we don't have a stretch 4 to use with him. What is Larry going to do playing with him. If he wanders out a little bit his guy will just double Pau and we will be in the same situation the lakers are currently in. Two post players who are your best bigs and neither compliments the other. If Larry had a serviceable mid range jumper it could work but right now he does not.


we couyld go get jon leuer. problem solved.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#85 » by H2tObes » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:35 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:ersan cant get 30 minutes a game against half the teams in this league because of defensive matchups.

he cant gaurd small active 4s when teams go small because he cant make a smaller guy pay in the post. and he cant gaurd bigs with a postgame.

he blows up when his jumpers falling on a lavoy allen or lazy ass jj hickson. yahoo whatever. i cant believe we got a inconsistent nichey pf who could maybe net us pau gasol and guys arent drooling.

A stretch four who has the potential to consistently put up 14 and 9 is really valuable. Have you seen Pau this year? He really does look awful.

It's simply not worth the risk. What does Pau get us? If he performs well our ceiling is a second round exit. If he looks like garbage we give up Ersan for nothing.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#86 » by BucksFanSD » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:35 am

Gasol is a big risk, Ersan is a medium risk, and Millsap is a low risk.

The question is, do you like risks?
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#87 » by JayMKE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:36 am

Some facts about Pau Gasol

He is 32 years old and has been playing professional basketball for 15 years.

makes $20 mil a season.

has plantar fasciitis (think Bobby Simmons)

has arthritic knees.

Currenty averaging 12 points and 8 rebounds a game on 43% shooting and has just been permanently benched for Earl freaking Clark.

He was garbage in the playoffs last year, he was garbage before D'Antoni took over.

He is known for being very sensitive and pouty (think Lamar Odom)

I honestly can't believe there are people advocating trading for this guy, I seriously cannot believe it
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#88 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:38 am

BucksFanSD wrote:Gasol is a big risk, Ersan is a medium risk, and Millsap is a low risk.

The question is, do you like risks?

I don't think Gasol is a much bigger risk then Ersan. He could completely bottom out and you have him for big money one more season. Ersan plays like he's been the whole seasons and you have him for above average money for atleast 3 seasons. Millsap is a huge risk because you'd have to give up a lot more to get him and he can walk.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#89 » by LedZepp007 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:39 am

BucksFanSD wrote:I actually think Gasol makes us less competitive. Seriously, watch some of his games. He's a mess a lot of the time.
When he does something good he immediately messes up somehow. He's not much of an improvement over Gooden in terms of mistakes.

The Lakers are better off with Earl Clark getting Gasol's minutes.


This is because the lakers are a horribly imbalanced mess of a team. Gasol would play better for us. One of the few players in the league now who might actually improve on our roster.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#90 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:40 am

Ersan has some Bogut in him. He's got to have confidence and be in a groove. He also has to have favorable matchups. If he has those things he can go to town.

I'll want to see him next week against Detroit. Monroe, Drummond and Maxiell have beat Ersan like a drum this year. (and before one of you sez he got 24 pts in the first game, go watch the tape. Those guys got 60 points in the paint, many against Ersan).
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#91 » by JayMKE » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:40 am

Maybe we should sign Tracy McGrady, and Allen Iverson, they were good players at one time too
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#92 » by The Wet Whistle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:41 am

I agree with Baddy's line of thinking here, however I think Gasol is essentially done as a player at this stage of his career. That's where my opinion on him totally differs. Agree with the concept, though
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#93 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:41 am

paulpressey25 wrote:I'll want to see him next week against Detroit. Monroe, Drummond and Maxiell have beat Ersan like a drum this year. (and before one of you sez he got 24 pts in the first game, go watch the tape. Those guys got 60 points in the paint, many against Ersan).

Ersan's worth will never be on defense. He's a slow footed guy without post defense. The only question with him is will he score and rebound at a consistent rate.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#94 » by LedZepp007 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:42 am

Also Gasol could teach Henson plenty. I think we can all agree that Henson generally looks good in limited minutes. Does he look lost at times? Yes. I blame Skiles for severely limiting his playing time early on.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#95 » by Baddy Chuck » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:43 am

JayMKE wrote:Maybe we should sign Tracy McGrady, and Allen Iverson, they were good players at one time too

Ersan is averaging 9 and 5 on 42% shooting, he was a good player at one point too.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#96 » by H2tObes » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:43 am

Baddy Chuck wrote:
H2tObes wrote:Guarantee you Ersan plays like he did last year for the rest of the season. Seriously all mental with the guy and its clear as day his confidence was completely shot with Skiles. He slowly has started to look more confident and comfortable after Skiles was canned, and he now is coming off his two best games of the season b2b.

We'll see, I'm not buying that. You're telling me it took Ersan 6 games to get over Skiles and then he plays as good as he ever has before? This isn't the Ersan you are getting for the rest of the season. He is never going to be a 20/10 guy for 40 games, it's never going to happen. He's been that guy 2 games. He was not that guy 6 other games under Boylan.

H2tObes wrote:News to me that Ersan is seen as inconsistent. When he's playing how we expect him to, he's consistent as they come.

News to you? That was his calling card for three seasons until his contract year. Then he starts off inconsistent this season and that's supposed to not be his norm? Sure, if he's playing how you expect him to play he's consistent, looks like our expectations may have been a little high.

I didn't say Ersan is going to put up 20/10 the rest of the season, I said I'm confident we'll see the Ersan of last year, which is a 14-9 stretch four. His ability to stretch the floor is really valuable, which is why we're like 11-3 when he scores 10+ points. Taking 1 of our 2 or 3 good shooters off this team would make us a lot worse, even if we would add a player who can create for himself in the post.

If a player can maintain a level of play for a whole season, I'd consider that consistent. Ersan made a big jump last season, and you can still see that this season. He just lost confidence with his shot and is just starting to get it back. We'll see how these next couple game before the asb turn out.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#97 » by LedZepp007 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:44 am

Dalambert, Ersan, and Tobes for Jamison and Gasol. Win now or tank.

I know people hate this deal, but I've given up on Tobes after seeing his inability to guard wings consistently.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#98 » by randy84 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:44 am

It really comes down to Henson and Ersan. Who is going to be your starting PF two years out?
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#99 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:45 am

JayMKE wrote:Some facts about Pau Gasol

He is 32 years old and has been playing professional basketball for 15 years.

makes $20 mil a season.

has plantar fasciitis (think Bobby Simmons)

has arthritic knees.

Currenty averaging 12 points and 8 rebounds a game on 43% shooting and has just been permanently benched for Earl freaking Clark.

He was garbage in the playoffs last year, he was garbage before D'Antoni took over.

He is known for being very sensitive and pouty (think Lamar Odom)

I honestly can't believe there are people advocating trading for this guy, I seriously cannot believe it


nice list. i still give up ersan in a heartbeat. now make a similar one for dwight and garnett. id trade ersan for them too. id even deal benson for lanier all over again.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#100 » by H2tObes » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:48 am

randy84 wrote:It really comes down to Henson and Ersan. Who is going to be your starting PF two years out?

Good problem to have, if Henson is clearly the superior player, you just let Ersan be the back-up,

If they both look like capable starters, you trade Ersan.

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