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PG: Brandon > Holiday

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Post#151 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:18 am by ampd

one underrated thing about the game tonight is Monta. When he plays the role he did tonight, as mostly a secondary ball handler looking to attack and get other guys involved while still giving full effort on defense, this back court actually works. I like that we used him on some more catch and shoot plays and that he didn't force a bunch of jumpers around the free throw line.

We are a much better team when we let Jennings be the #1, and Monta play to his strengths driving the lane, shooting from mid range on the catch and shoot instead of off the dribble, and dishing to open guys. When he's doing that he and Jennings aren't redundant.

However Ersan ties this whole thing together. With him as a consistent threat from outside our offense is just vastly better.
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Post#152 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:21 am by Baddy Chuck

ampd wrote:However Ersan ties this whole thing together. With him as a consistent threat from outside our offense is just vastly better.

It's not even just as a threat from the outside, it's having ANY scoring besides Brandon, Monta and MDJ.
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Post#153 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:27 am by BucksFanSD

Baddy Chuck wrote:
BucksFanSD wrote:I agree. Ersan has been bad this year. If we think he's going to get better, keep Ersan. If not, we have the assets to explore for an upgrade. Gasol is not an upgrade.

Probably best to evaluate Ersan after the end of the year, especially with the coaching change.

I just believe that good production at our 4 spot makes this a very good team. Not a contender, but dangerous. The stats back it up.

Fair enough. I think Gasol is a clear upgrade and I wouldn't give up assets with Ersan to get a guy like Millsap when you can trade Ersan with minimal additions for Gasol though.


I'm with you there. I wouldn't give up too much to get Millsap. But I'd give fair value if Millsap would be willing to sign a reasonable contract. It's not like Ersan has no shot at playing at last year's level. He certainly does, perhaps even better say in 2-3 years. Every team will view Ersan differently.
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Post#154 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:29 am by ampd

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:However Ersan ties this whole thing together. With him as a consistent threat from outside our offense is just vastly better.

It's not even just as a threat from the outside, it's having ANY scoring besides Brandon, Monta and MDJ.


Right. It allows the back court to take less shots and distribute without just leaving other guys in spots where they have to try to force their offense.
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Post#155 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:30 am by BucksFanSD

ampd wrote:However Ersan ties this whole thing together. With him as a consistent threat from outside our offense is just vastly better.


This. It allows everyone to play within themselves.
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Post#156 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:38 am by ampd

BucksFanSD wrote:
ampd wrote:However Ersan ties this whole thing together. With him as a consistent threat from outside our offense is just vastly better.


This. It allows everyone to play within themselves.


Especially Monta. If he can play the role he did tonight offensively, probably usually with a few more shots, I would actually like him as a player
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Post#157 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:43 am by Baddy Chuck

BucksFanSD wrote:I'm with you there. I wouldn't give up too much to get Millsap. But I'd give fair value if Millsap would be willing to sign a reasonable contract. It's not like Ersan has no shot at playing at last year's level. He certainly does, perhaps even better say in 2-3 years. Every team will view Ersan differently.

Yeah he certainly could and if he does it would be more of a discussion for me, I'm not sold after 2 games though. Personally, I think you put Gasol on our team right now he's a 15 and 10 guy which is what we are hoping Ersan would become again and I could easily see him becoming that 20 and 10 player again.
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Post#158 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:44 am by Baddy Chuck

ampd wrote:Especially Monta. If he can play the role he did tonight offensively, probably usually with a few more shots, I would actually like him as a player

I think a Gasol/Monta pick and roll would be pretty fun to watch if Monta bought in.
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Post#159 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:48 am by haubrich91

It was awesome seeing Jennings acknowledging and approving the "All-star" chants by Sector 7.
LUKE23 wrote:Jennings has given up on this team. **** him. Scrap the entire backcourt. One has no heart and the other has no brain. Yellow brick road these **** out of here.
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Post#160 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:51 am by ampd

haubrich91 wrote:It was awesome seeing Jennings acknowledging and approving the "All-star" chants by Sector 7.


I hope he makes it. If he doesn't, I hope he uses it as motivation this time instead of channeling his inner Captain Jack
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Post#161 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:52 am by Baddy Chuck

haubrich91 wrote:It was awesome seeing Jennings acknowledging and approving the "All-star" chants by Sector 7.

What did he do/say?
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Post#162 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:55 am by Baddy Chuck

ampd wrote:
haubrich91 wrote:It was awesome seeing Jennings acknowledging and approving the "All-star" chants by Sector 7.


I hope he makes it. If he doesn't, I hope he uses it as motivation this time instead of channeling his inner Captain Jack

If him and Deron make it I'm completely fine with it, but if Holiday or Irving make it with one of Jennings or Williams I think they did it wrong. You either go by best players or you go by who is contributing on a winning team, no in-between.
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Post#163 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:57 am by ampd

Baddy Chuck wrote:
ampd wrote:
haubrich91 wrote:It was awesome seeing Jennings acknowledging and approving the "All-star" chants by Sector 7.


I hope he makes it. If he doesn't, I hope he uses it as motivation this time instead of channeling his inner Captain Jack

If him and Deron make it I'm completely fine with it, but if Holiday or Irving make it with one of Jennings or Williams I think they did it wrong. You either go by best players or you go by who is contributing on a winning team, no in-between.


Judging by how the NBA normally works, it seems most likely to be Deron and Irving.

I'm with you though
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Post#164 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:59 am by Jez2983

Solid win over a team we were predicted to be worse than.

Great to see the good play by all the guys mentioned previously, and also that our starters decisively outplayed our bench.

Boylan for championship???
paulpressey25 wrote:Joe Johnson will be a Buck sometime in 2013. It is destiny. He's the next generation of overpaid wings on the decline.


dupp wrote:I like boys.
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Post#165 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:17 am by ampd

For the most part the changes Boylan has made (starting Ersan, more consistent lineups, running a few more plays, a little more emphasis on playmaking from the guards, Jennings as the #1 instead of Monta, playing Henson with the 2nd unit, less Marquis Daniels) have been the completely obvious choices that pretty much any coach other than Skiles would have done from day 1.

Aside from the rotations in the Detroit game which were baffling and inexplicable, I like what Boylan has done so far, which is pretty much be Skiles without all the BS, and a little attention paid to the offensive end of the floor.
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Post#166 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:19 am by kid idioteque

It's all too easy to want to keep Ersan after the last two games, but his numbers are very similar to Gasol's (who is, by all accounts, having a disastrous season). The most interesting part is how different their situations are.

Ersan just got paid and has had lots of opportunity this season to solidify himself as a bona fide starter, while Gasol has been in the middle of the worst locker room in the league, under far more pressure, and has a contract year coming up.

Ultimately, it's unclear who has the higher ceiling in the short term. Ersan has more potential but no consistency, while Gasol has been a big part of some hugely successful teams and has been reliable outside of the last year or two.

IMO, Gasol is the better gamble short term and long term for the Bucks. Worst case we get a guy that gives us what Ersan has given us most nights this season. Best case is Gasol returns to form, we win some playoff series, and Henson gets the starting role in 2014.
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Post#167 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:36 am by AussieBuck

I can't believe there's so much talk of trading Ersan for Pau. I can't think of many more stupid things. If you are trading for Pau it's to play him predominately at C and giving him the space to operate as the offensive hub. Any combinatin you play with him without Ersan leaves him in the same position he was in at LA. If you are trading for Pau it's to play him for the most part beside Ersan.

On the topic of Ersan it's kinda weird that most of the posters here embrace the various +/- stuff that shows that Gooden and the other awful vets we've had suck and then don't believe the same stuff that says we have always been consistently better on both sides of the ball with Ersan playing.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#168 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:37 am by AussieBuck

cellomac1212 wrote:Someone from the Bucks should be going to the ASG. I know the general favorite between Monta and Jennings is definitely Jennings here, but what do you think the coaches think about the Monta and Jennings when they have to make a pick? Jennings has been the hotter player lately, but over the course of the season the coaches will look at this to make their decision:

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I'm sure of the response this will get already, but thought I should post it anyway as popular player might be the determining factor if either make it.

Monta isn't in the best 5 players on the Bucks.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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Post#169 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:40 am by Baddy Chuck

AussieBuck wrote:Any combinatin you play with him without Ersan leaves him in the same position he was in at LA.

Except instead of Pau Gasol, one of the most talented post scorers in the game, rotting at the perimeter you have Larry Sanders out there, someone who creates a miniscule amount of offense.
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Post#170 Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:51 am by AussieBuck

Baddy Chuck wrote:
AussieBuck wrote:Any combinatin you play with him without Ersan leaves him in the same position he was in at LA.

Except instead of Pau Gasol, one of the most talented post scorers in the game, rotting at the perimeter you have Larry Sanders out there, someone who creates a miniscule amount of offense.

Sure put Larry there, his man will be happily doubling Pau. Gasol smothered and Larry shooing jumpers = massive fail.
aol4532 wrote:what exactly is the difference between him (Bill Russell), and say a guy like Ryan Hollins, who is 20 lbs heavier and can get his head over the rim? He would get in foul trouble so quick, just trying to hold position.
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