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PG: Brandon > Holiday

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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#201 » by Nebula1 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:25 pm

F no to Gasol. Why does this even come up?
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#202 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:25 pm

The postgame show podcast from WSSP is a good listen in regards to the Gasol debate.

I see good arguments on both sides. I just don't feel we have a second round team unless we make a proactive win now deal. Whether that is Gasol or something else is another matter.

I'd be fine rolling with our front court as is, but then Hammond should pony up for Afflalo. And if that means dealing our first and Tobes, I'm down with that. We need a big guard who can keep Jennings and Monta honest on nights they suck.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#203 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:28 pm

Our first and Tobias Harris for Afflalo? I'll pass.

Just trade Monta. We don't need to move anyone else.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#204 » by Nebula1 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:29 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be fine rolling with our front court as is, but then Hammond should pony up for Afflalo. And if that means dealing our first and Tobes, I'm down with that.


:o


No way.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#205 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:35 pm

Remember that fun little myth that "Skiles accounts for a certain number of wins because he gets the most out of his players" (despite the fact that all his players hated him, he didn't play his best players the most minutes, and his accountability scale was all over the place). Ah, those were good times.

Remember this gem?

http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/1/10/3857512/jim-boylan-scott-skiles-bucks

I don't expect much to change for the players, but in a way this will be a test for the surly fans who consistently offered up criticisms of Skiles. Here's your chance to prove you meant what you said. To me, the hyper-criticisms of Skiles mostly express misdirected anger of discontented fans.


:lol:

Cool article, bro
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#206 » by Thunder Muscle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:38 pm

Its early yet though, this could fall apart quickly at some point. Probably after tomorrow when Brandon doesn't make the All-Star team and he goes into a funk blaming Milwaukee b/c we're a small market.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#207 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:40 pm

It's been 8 games, and four of their wins are Suns, Sixers, and Raptors. They are playing well, but lets wait and see how they do when the schedule toughens up. I know many are anxious to get their agendas verified, but there is usually a surge when a coaching change is made.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#208 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:49 pm

LUKE23 wrote:It's been 8 games, and four of their wins are Suns, Sixers, and Raptors. They are playing well, but lets wait and see how they do when the schedule toughens up. I know many are anxious to get their agendas verified, but there is usually a surge when a coaching change is made.


I said they'd go 7-3 in their first ten. Switching from drill sergeant to players friend always works initially.

I'm happy though with the switch and encouraged by what I see.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#209 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:52 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
I said they'd go 7-3 in their first ten. Switching from drill sergeant to players friend always works initially.

I'm happy though with the switch and encouraged by what I see.


Agreed.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#210 » by paulpressey25 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:57 pm

Nebula1 wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be fine rolling with our front court as is, but then Hammond should pony up for Afflalo. And if that means dealing our first and Tobes, I'm down with that.


:o


No way.


This is classic Bucks though. Let's get a team together that is one player away from maybe being 50 win and second round for this year and next. But we will hold onto all sorts of marginal assets or things that will help us three years from now because we are afraid of getting "ripped off". We can buy another first if we want.

Afflalo fits what we need, is signed to a fair deal and is Monta insurance if he leaves or you can't deal him.

Herb Kohl has tried this fence straddling crap for ten years now. You always get your nuts crushed.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#211 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:59 pm

We can not straddle without also giving up Harris and our 1st. I mean come on, that's overpaying for Afflalo. Harris will likely be a better scorer than Afflalo alone, let alone giving the pick.

If we can't turn Monta and/or Udoh and/or our expiring into a better wing fit, we have problems. We need to stay patient though and keep the young pieces together.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#212 » by Badgerlander » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:02 pm

Just curious how long Ersan's current hot streak will last
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#213 » by raysbookclub » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:07 pm

ampd wrote:one underrated thing about the game tonight is Monta. When he plays the role he did tonight, as mostly a secondary ball handler looking to attack and get other guys involved while still giving full effort on defense, this back court actually works. I like that we used him on some more catch and shoot plays and that he didn't force a bunch of jumpers around the free throw line.

We are a much better team when we let Jennings be the #1, and Monta play to his strengths driving the lane, shooting from mid range on the catch and shoot instead of off the dribble, and dishing to open guys. When he's doing that he and Jennings aren't redundant.


Monta played very well last night, under control, steady offense both shooting and passing. His D could have been better in the 2nd half, but he was probably a little tired, I don't think he came out the whole half.

I think a lot of the backcourt success was just Jennings playing really well, too. He controlled the game; our point guard paced the team and led on the court. He got different people involved, helped pace Ellis, and got some easy shots for our bigs (for either assisted fgs or fts). Active on D. And the thing about Jennings, that not every guard has, is his ability to kick up a gear for stretches to either get us back in the game or push our lead, like he recognizes "it is time."
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#214 » by Thunder Muscle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:09 pm

"Right now we're winning and we're in a great situation, we're 6-2 under Jim (Boylan). Things couldn't get any better. Guys are playing with a lot of confidence. The energy in here is really up. Jim just lets us play, including myself. I'm just able to make plays down the stretch to help the team."
-JS

Brandon seems to be pretty upbeat right now. Glad to hear the energy has been better. Obviously winning helps, but its refreshing. Too often in the past years, and even earlier this season, it seemed like everyone was just going through the motions. We'll see how it plays out the rest of the way.

The questions I have...

If we continue to win, does it make more or less likely Ellis is dealt? Or no difference?
Does an All-Star appearance by BJ3 really make his contract jump this offseason?
Short of going to the NBA Finals, do you feel there is any chance Boylan is the Head Coach next year?

My answers...

1. Less likely. I think we'll ride it out if we're playing good ball into mid-February.
2. I would have to think that would get him in the 12M/year range at minimum.
3. If we continue to have success and the players like him, I wouldn't be 100% shocked if he's back. But right now I'm skeptical that we'll make it far. I do think we'll make the playoffs, already have 7 game cushion in the loss column.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#215 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:09 pm

LUKE23 wrote:It's been 8 games, and four of their wins are Suns, Sixers, and Raptors. They are playing well, but lets wait and see how they do when the schedule toughens up. I know many are anxious to get their agendas verified, but there is usually a surge when a coaching change is made.


Why did I know you were going to bring up the Bucks' opponents over Boylan's first 8 games...

"Agendas verified"

:lol:

When is it no longer an "agenda" in your eyes? All I want is for the coach of my favorite team is to put his team in the best position to win. At what point am I simply "right" about Skiles?

Jim Boylan, not an "elite" coach by anyone's standards HOWEVER, through 8 games, he:

1) Communicates with his players
2) Plays his best players the most minutes
3) Installed a starting lineup that makes sense
4) Keeps his rotations tight (for the most part)

Those were ALL no-brainer moves for Scott Skiles. All of them. They're no-brainer moves for any coach at any level. Yet when I would continually harp on Skiles' deficiencies as a major problem for this team, you would take me to task.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#216 » by emunney » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:10 pm

paulpressey25 wrote:
Nebula1 wrote:
paulpressey25 wrote:I'd be fine rolling with our front court as is, but then Hammond should pony up for Afflalo. And if that means dealing our first and Tobes, I'm down with that.


:o


No way.


This is classic Bucks though. Let's get a team together that is one player away from maybe being 50 win and second round for this year and next. But we will hold onto all sorts of marginal assets or things that will help us three years from now because we are afraid of getting "ripped off". We can buy another first if we want.

Afflalo fits what we need, is signed to a fair deal and is Monta insurance if he leaves or you can't deal him.

Herb Kohl has tried this fence straddling crap for ten years now. You always get your nuts crushed.


I agree with you in principle, I just don't think Afflalo is very good.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#217 » by LUKE23 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:12 pm

Like I said, I know how much you hated Skiles and how badly you want to bring him up after every win. I hope we keep winning. All I'm saying is that it's been 8 games and the schedule has been pretty light. We've played two over .500 teams so far. Lets see how we do as it toughens up. Hopefully we keep winning.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#218 » by Thunder Muscle » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:14 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:
LUKE23 wrote:It's been 8 games, and four of their wins are Suns, Sixers, and Raptors. They are playing well, but lets wait and see how they do when the schedule toughens up. I know many are anxious to get their agendas verified, but there is usually a surge when a coaching change is made.


Why did I know you were going to bring up the Bucks' opponents over Boylan's first 8 games...

"Agendas verified"

:lol:

When is it no longer an "agenda" in your eyes? All I want is for the coach of my favorite team is to put his team in the best position to win. At what point am I simply "right" about Skiles?

Jim Boylan, not an "elite" coach by anyone's standards HOWEVER, through 8 games, he:

1) Communicates with his players
2) Plays his best players the most minutes
3) Installed a starting lineup that makes sense
4) Keeps his rotations tight (for the most part)

Those were ALL no-brainer moves for Scott Skiles. All of them. They're no-brainer moves for any coach at any level. Yet when I would continually harp on Skiles' deficiencies as a major problem for this team, you would take me to task.


I would agree with the 4 points on Boylan. He looks more engaged on the sideline and his rotations have been pretty tight. I mean you'll see Daly, Daniels, and Gooden here and there, but never major minutes. I think he's had the same starting lineup throughout. Right now it's working, can't argue with it.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#219 » by ReasonablySober » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:16 pm

The players don't hate their coach. That alone is reason enough for me to be fine with the change. But I also like that we're seeing a tighter rotation and guys are allowed to play through rough stretches.
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Re: PG: Brandon > Holiday 

Post#220 » by JimmyTheKid » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:18 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Like I said, I know how much you hated Skiles and how badly you want to bring him up after every win. I hope we keep winning. All I'm saying is that it's been 8 games and the schedule has been pretty light. We've played two over .500 teams so far. Lets see how we do as it toughens up. Hopefully we keep winning.


The only reason I hated Skiles was because his ineptitude prevented my favorite basketball team from being the best they could be. Period. Will you eat crow if the Bucks continue to play well considering how many times you attempted to call me out after I would piss and moan about Skiles? Or do you think this whole 6-2 since Boylan took over is all one big coincidence?

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