The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe)

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

So Hammond just said the Hawks never told him exactly what it would take to get Smith. Not true that there was a deal and they pulled out at the last second.

wtf kind of negotiation is that? who doesnt say and who doesnt ask?

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Atlanta will certainly have chance to do better in free agency than the rumored Mil deal.

how exactly? we have max space and the best assets were willing to offer in a s/t. we know that as a fact based on the negotiations that just occurred.

[Lippo]

Hammond will offer Josh the Max just to spite Atlanta, and they will have to go 5/90m to keep him.

Or better yet lets offer them a great S&T deal, and when they resign him to 5/90m and about to trade him to us for Hesnon/Sanders/1st/BJ/Ersan we back out last second and they are stuck paying him 5/90m. Oh wait Ferry's not dumb enough to fall for that.

[ampd]

I think the Rockets will be in on the Smith sweepstakes again. I'm looking at salaries, and in 2014-2015 they are screwed. Jeremy Lin and Asik's poison pill contracts both top 14 million.

As has been discussed to death, they can prorate those contracts over the life of the deal for the cap. The only teams that would have had their cap killed by those contracts were NY and Chicago

[BigDoggyStyle]

And then there's this. Don't know what to believe. Sure does seem that Monta would've gotten it done though, which is infuriating.

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1
Most interesting fact learned deadline day: Bucks were in final hunt 4 both Redick & Josh. Would've had Smith had offered Monta or Jennings

[drew881]

I think the Rockets will be in on the Smith sweepstakes again. I'm looking at salaries, and in 2014-2015 they are screwed. Jeremy Lin and Asik's poison pill contracts both top 14 million.

As has been discussed to death, they can prorate those contracts over the life of the deal for the cap. The only teams that would have had their cap killed by those contracts were NY and Chicago

Ah, didn't know that, thanks for explaining it, and for being a d about it.

[drew881]

I still can't believe Monta would have been the tipping point. What value is he to the Hawks? I doubt they have any interest in re-signing him and I don't know if he would opt in there. They have Lou Williams coming back who is cheaper and plays a very similar game.

[Debit One]

There are quotes out of Hammond's mouth that he wanted to keep Monta. Several sources said the Hawks wanted Ellis. So yes, I'll go off that to put two and two together. Those that are blaming Ferry here are nuts.

Two things:

1. What do you expect to have Hammond or any GM say? "Yeah, I really wanted to move that bum but no one wanted him?"

2. Again, I have a hard time assigning the blame to Hammond, when we all know that no deal gets done without HK's approval. For all that we know Hammond begged to be able to trade Ellis and HK refused.

The Bucks as an organization once again proved that they have no plan other than to try to maximize their win count each and every season, which has done nothing more but keep them in the 7 - 10 range in the Eastern Conference ad infinitum. There has been one constant in all of those years.

[paulpressey25]

Woelfel spoke to this, noting the following:

1) On Wednesday he was told by a Hawks person that they really wanted to pry out Larry Sanders
2) Gery later heard from both sides that Monta Ellis was a strong part of the discussion and the Hawks wanted him
3) One Hawks guy told him that he couldn't talk because all Hawks front office people were told if they leaked anything, they would be fired.
4) Bucks officials told Gery that they had a deal in principle reached with Ferry but that Ferry called it off at the last minute.

Add in Europa's piece of information that the Bucks front office is ticked at Ferry and the Bucks are planning to go after Smith hard this summer, partly because they want him, partly because of spite.

All I know is that in the end, Hammond and company got played here the exact same way they got played by Donnie Walsh in the Ramon/David Lee deal that fell apart in July 2009.

What this all tells me is that Hammond and crew are naive in their dealings with other teams. And it means we generally get poor execution when we try to make trades. The track record of all the poor trades we've made the last five years would support this.

[mlloyd10]

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1

Most interesting fact learned deadline day: Bucks were in final hunt 4 both Redick & Josh. Would've had Smith had offered Monta or Jennings
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14 mins Mike Lloyd ‏@Lloyd_Michael

@PeterVecsey1 do we know for sure the bucks didn't offer monta?
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11 mins Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1

@Lloyd_Michael As noted, had Bucks made offer they'd have Josh. Reports Monta or Jennings was offered were incorrect
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8 mins Mike Lloyd ‏@Lloyd_Michael

@PeterVecsey1 that's even more depressing now

[drew881]

If you want to trust Peter Vecsey, the biggest douche in sports.

[drew881]

I mean if we wanted Monta so badly, you still do the trade including Monta, and go after Monta in FA.

[mlloyd10]

If you want to trust Peter Vecsey, the biggest douche in sports.

That title belongs to chris broussard

[coolhandluke121]

I still can't believe Monta would have been the tipping point. What value is he to the Hawks? I doubt they have any interest in re-signing him and I don't know if he would opt in there. They have Lou Williams coming back who is cheaper and plays a very similar game.

When is Lou coming back though? They want to make the playoffs and maybe win a series or two. They were pretty successful with Lou in his role as a scoring combo guard, so it's only natural that they would want to replace him and get a serviceable center at the same time. They want to trade Smith so they don't lose him for nothing, but they also want to replace some of his and Lou's volume scoring (enter Monta) and some of his frontcourt defense (Udoh) while maybe getting a future asset in exchange for the talent downgrade (protected pick).

I think the Bucks should have done that. Supposedly they offered LRMAM, Udoh, Udrih, and a protected first. Substituting Ellis for LRMAM and Udrih gives Altanta either more cap space (if Ellis opts out) or a Dwight recruiter (if Ellis opts in), along with the added benefit of the scoring Ellis brings (debatable if Ellis's volume scoring is a benefit, but it probably depends on the team and I think Atlanta would have a use for him, considering they had a use for Lou). Since it was rumored that the Hawks didn't want LRMAM's contract, I think that's how it played out.

Bucks could have still offered up LRMAM + Harris +Lamb for Redick, and would have rolled with:

Jennings/Udrih
Redick/Udrih
Smith/MDJ
Ersan/Smith
Sanders/Dalembert

Backcourt depth is still an issue, but that's a pretty solid team IMO.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1
Most interesting fact learned deadline day: Bucks were in final hunt 4 both Redick & Josh. Would've had Smith had offered Monta or Jennings

I don't believe Vecsey knows this to be a fact. But I mean even if he's totally making it up (or a questionable source "leaked" him that), whos gonna bother refuting it? Of course if it is perfectly accurate then we suck, but that's not news either...

[Nebula1]

Glad we passed on Smith and hope Bucks don't offer him money in the summer.

[whatthe_buck!?]

Atlanta will certainly have chance to do better in free agency than the rumored Mil deal.

how exactly? we have max space and the best assets were willing to offer in a s/t. we know that as a fact based on the negotiations that just occurred.

Im not saying that I want us to sign Smith or sign and trade for Smith in the offseason, but yeah, I agree with u GOS. I actually think the Bucks will be the ones that can improve their off the most in the offseason too. Instead of just offering Monta as an expiring, we could sign and trade Monta for a signed and traded Smith and if its say, 16 mil per for Smith and 10 million per for Monta, because we have cap space to make a trade that's not within 125% of matching salaries or whatever we would essentially be giving Atlanta the added bonus of a 6 mil trade exception. Then there are other things we could do to sweeten the trade like including a 1st round pick swap as our pick should be lower than theirs, or our second rounder etc.

[deftonesmjp]

I watched this thread all day yesterday laughing my *** off!

[Jollay]

Add in Europa's piece of information that the Bucks front office is ticked at Ferry and the Bucks are planning to go after Smith hard this summer, partly because they want him, partly because of spite.

I could be down with our organization becoming one that is motivated mostly by spite.

If we're gonna fail, would love to #### as many people as possible in the process.

[jakecronus8]

Glad we passed on Smith and hope Bucks don't offer him money in the summer.

Wait, so you think making FO decisions based on spite is a BAD idea? Get your $wag up and call me in the morning.