The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe)

[Jollay]

I also think the Bucks should research the true identities of posters on this board who badmouth them and then try to #### their lives any way possible. Out of spite.

Just like Wes Mantooth...I would hate the organization, but I would really have to respect them.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Atlanta will certainly have chance to do better in free agency than the rumored Mil deal.

how exactly? we have max space and the best assets were willing to offer in a s/t. we know that as a fact based on the negotiations that just occurred.

Im not saying that I want us to sign Smith or sign and trade for Smith in the offseason, but yeah, I agree with u GOS. I actually think the Bucks will be the ones that can improve their off the most in the offseason too. Instead of just offering Monta as an expiring, we could sign and trade Monta for a signed and traded Smith and if its say, 16 mil per for Smith and 10 million per for Monta, because we have cap space to make a trade that's not within 125% of matching salaries or whatever we would essentially be giving Atlanta the added bonus of a 6 mil trade exception. Then there are other things we could do to sweeten the trade like including a 1st round pick swap as our pick should be lower than theirs, or our second rounder etc.

my gut says we're gonna call josh smiths agent at 12.01 on july 1st and offer him the full max. we will give them the option of taking it directly from us or for his agent to call atl and work out a s/t for his bird rights contract. there may be 2-3 other teams in the league willing to commit those dollars that also have some assets to give back. but we'd have the clear lead in that scenario tho.

personally i think a smith/ sanders frontline is worth 40 wins alone. my concern would be that sanders somehow got a team to offer him a hibbert/ lopez sized deal the following year.

[BuckPack]

Woelfel spoke to this, noting the following:

1) On Wednesday he was told by a Hawks person that they really wanted to pry out Larry Sanders
2) Gery later heard from both sides that Monta Ellis was a strong part of the discussion and the Hawks wanted him
3) One Hawks guy told him that he couldn't talk because all Hawks front office people were told if they leaked anything, they would be fired.
4) Bucks officials told Gery that they had a deal in principle reached with Ferry but that Ferry called it off at the last minute.

Add in Europa's piece of information that the Bucks front office is ticked at Ferry and the Bucks are planning to go after Smith hard this summer, partly because they want him, partly because of spite.

All I know is that in the end, Hammond and company got played here the exact same way they got played by Donnie Walsh in the Ramon/David Lee deal that fell apart in July 2009.

What this all tells me is that Hammond and crew are naive in their dealings with other teams. And it means we generally get poor execution when we try to make trades. The track record of all the poor trades we've made the last five years would support this.

Can't speak to the Hawks side, but I don't think people appreciate how close this deal was to happening before the Hawks pulled it. I mean, it was agreed to and the Hawks backed off at the very, very last minute. Bucks FO was not happy with the move.

That aside the Redick deal was the most likely deal all day. Bucks were always in on Smith, but it was always going to go right up to the end (they always do, but this one more so than any other since the Bucks/Magic talks were ongoing throughout).

[LUKE23]

Are we going to offer Smith the max?

[BuckPack]

Are we going to offer Smith the max?

No one knows the answer to that question right now.

Do they like him? Yes. Obviously.

[Nebula1]

Glad we passed on Smith and hope Bucks don't offer him money in the summer.

Wait, so you think making FO decisions based on spite is a BAD idea? Get your $wag up and call me in the morning.

What are you talking about? has nothing to do with spite. I don't see Josh Smith holding a Finals MVP for Milwaukee and certainly wouldn't want to see the Bucks offer him huge money.

[mlloyd10]

Woelfel spoke to this, noting the following:

1) On Wednesday he was told by a Hawks person that they really wanted to pry out Larry Sanders
2) Gery later heard from both sides that Monta Ellis was a strong part of the discussion and the Hawks wanted him
3) One Hawks guy told him that he couldn't talk because all Hawks front office people were told if they leaked anything, they would be fired.
4) Bucks officials told Gery that they had a deal in principle reached with Ferry but that Ferry called it off at the last minute.

Add in Europa's piece of information that the Bucks front office is ticked at Ferry and the Bucks are planning to go after Smith hard this summer, partly because they want him, partly because of spite.

All I know is that in the end, Hammond and company got played here the exact same way they got played by Donnie Walsh in the Ramon/David Lee deal that fell apart in July 2009.

What this all tells me is that Hammond and crew are naive in their dealings with other teams. And it means we generally get poor execution when we try to make trades. The track record of all the poor trades we've made the last five years would support this.

Can't speak to the Hawks side, but I don't think people appreciate how close this deal was to happening before the Hawks pulled it. I mean, it was agreed to and the Hawks backed off at the very, very last minute. Bucks FO was not happy with the move.

That aside the Redick deal was the most likely deal all day. Bucks were always in on Smith, but it was always going to go right up to the end (they always do, but this one more so than any other since the Bucks/Magic talks were ongoing throughout).

Why couldn't they get an extension?

[JimmyTheKid]

Woelfel spoke to this, noting the following:

1) On Wednesday he was told by a Hawks person that they really wanted to pry out Larry Sanders
2) Gery later heard from both sides that Monta Ellis was a strong part of the discussion and the Hawks wanted him
3) One Hawks guy told him that he couldn't talk because all Hawks front office people were told if they leaked anything, they would be fired.
4) Bucks officials told Gery that they had a deal in principle reached with Ferry but that Ferry called it off at the last minute.

Add in Europa's piece of information that the Bucks front office is ticked at Ferry and the Bucks are planning to go after Smith hard this summer, partly because they want him, partly because of spite.

All I know is that in the end, Hammond and company got played here the exact same way they got played by Donnie Walsh in the Ramon/David Lee deal that fell apart in July 2009.

What this all tells me is that Hammond and crew are naive in their dealings with other teams. And it means we generally get poor execution when we try to make trades. The track record of all the poor trades we've made the last five years would support this.

Can't speak to the Hawks side, but I don't think people appreciate how close this deal was to happening before the Hawks pulled it. I mean, it was agreed to and the Hawks backed off at the very, very last minute. Bucks FO was not happy with the move.

That aside the Redick deal was the most likely deal all day. Bucks were always in on Smith, but it was always going to go right up to the end (they always do, but this one more so than any other since the Bucks/Magic talks were ongoing throughout).

Was there a "sweetener" that the Bucks could have thrown in to clinch the deal? Like taking the protection off the 1st or adding a different player? Or was it strictly a d*ck move by Ferry that f**ked us over?

[tski1972]

Are we going to offer Smith the max?

No one knows the answer to that question right now.

Do they like him? Yes. Obviously.

I'd be more happy if they liked a descent SG/SF. Serioulsy, what is Hammond's problem with athletic wing players?

[BuckPack]

Woelfel spoke to this, noting the following:

1) On Wednesday he was told by a Hawks person that they really wanted to pry out Larry Sanders
2) Gery later heard from both sides that Monta Ellis was a strong part of the discussion and the Hawks wanted him
3) One Hawks guy told him that he couldn't talk because all Hawks front office people were told if they leaked anything, they would be fired.
4) Bucks officials told Gery that they had a deal in principle reached with Ferry but that Ferry called it off at the last minute.

Add in Europa's piece of information that the Bucks front office is ticked at Ferry and the Bucks are planning to go after Smith hard this summer, partly because they want him, partly because of spite.

All I know is that in the end, Hammond and company got played here the exact same way they got played by Donnie Walsh in the Ramon/David Lee deal that fell apart in July 2009.

What this all tells me is that Hammond and crew are naive in their dealings with other teams. And it means we generally get poor execution when we try to make trades. The track record of all the poor trades we've made the last five years would support this.

Can't speak to the Hawks side, but I don't think people appreciate how close this deal was to happening before the Hawks pulled it. I mean, it was agreed to and the Hawks backed off at the very, very last minute. Bucks FO was not happy with the move.

That aside the Redick deal was the most likely deal all day. Bucks were always in on Smith, but it was always going to go right up to the end (they always do, but this one more so than any other since the Bucks/Magic talks were ongoing throughout).

Was there a "sweetener" that the Bucks could have thrown in to clinch the deal? Like taking the protection off the 1st or adding a different player? Or was it strictly a d*ck move by Ferry that f**ked us over?

Hawks walked away, literally, at the very last minute.

I don't know why the Hawks did it (I assume they didn't want salary beyond this year, but it might also have been that they didn't want to trade Smith to an EC competitor) and perhaps if there were more time the Bucks could have reworked the deal. But then why didn't the Hawks come back 15 minutes before the deadline?

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.

[BUCKnation]

If it ever comes out that Monta not being included was the breaker in the deal, I dont know what to say. I already think this is the reason, but I'll be even more depressed if we were to stubborn to throw him in.

[SupremeHustle]

This thread was awesome then turned sad with people trying to come to terms about why their dog was suddenly murdered.

[Max Green]

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.

Thanks for sharing. This is good to know, for some of us at least. Let's see if it will stop those who are complaining about us not picking a direction or laughing at the notion of blaming Ferry for the deal not getting done.

[JimmyTheKid]

Hawks walked away, literally, at the very last minute.

I don't know why the Hawks did it (I assume they didn't want salary beyond this year, but it might also have been that they didn't want to trade Smith to an EC competitor) and perhaps if there were more time the Bucks could have reworked the deal. But then why didn't the Hawks come back 15 minutes before the deadline?

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.

Well, go figure. Even when they try to do the right thing they end up failing. They try to go "all-in" and end up with JJ Redick... and thats it. JJ Redick. Ugh. F*** Danny Ferry. And since ATL took it to the deadline, I guess there was no time for Plan B, C, or D. Do you know if the Bucks had a Plan B, C, or D? Like a fire sale of sorts?

[averageposter]

I can't sit here and say I am pleased with the outcome of this whole trade deadline. But, if you are going win now, and they are, then the way they went for it, is one heck of a lot better and creative then warming up the corpse of Corey Maggette, or taking on a malcontent in Jackson. It might not have ultimately moved the needle enough but the off season could have brought a true do over or partial do over with a fair amount of flexibility. So I guess I give them some credit for targeting a guy under 30 for once, and doing it in a manner that didn't lock up the future immediately.

[Debit One]

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.

This provides a reasonable explanation as to why the Bucks might have preferred to keep Ellis.

To be honest, I hadn't thought of it in the way that BP describes it here. That isn't a half bad plan. Worst case the Bucks would have gone into next season having cleared the salaries of Ellis, Redick, and Smith (and Jennings, if they want to clear that one).

I'll say this - I've heard of worse plans. That being said, as BP noted above you have to fault them on the execution of the plan. Only achieving 50% of an all-in plan is the worst of all possible worlds. I'm not sure why they would not have insisted on seeing Atlanta's signature on the bottom line before pulling the trigger on Redick.

[raferfenix]

It is pretty remarkable that our desire to keep Monta likely led to Ferry backing out at the last minute.

Hell, I'd rather deal a Monta + Daly / Udoh package than the Moute + #1 pick + Udrih one we've been hearing about.

Things never should have gotten to the last minute with us pushing to keep Monta.

Redick would have complimented Josh Smith quite well, whereas Ellis and Smith taking and missing deep 2's and 3's at historic rates would have been nasty to say the least.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

our offseason was always going to be when a true transformation could take place. it wasnt going to be this deadline by throwing our season away for a bunch of 2nd rounders. thanks for sharing buckpack.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.

This provides a reasonable explanation as to why the Bucks might have preferred to keep Ellis.

To be honest, I hadn't thought of it in the way that BP describes it here. That isn't a half bad plan. Worst case the Bucks would have gone into next season having cleared the salaries of Ellis, Redick, and Smith (and Jennings, if they want to clear that one).

I'll say this - I've heard of worse plans. That being said, as BP noted above you have to fault them on the execution of the plan. Only achieving 50% of an all-in plan is the worst of all possible worlds. I'm not sure why they would not have insisted on seeing Atlanta's signature on the bottom line before pulling the trigger on Redick.

we would have cleared the salaries of tobes, lamb, mam, and udoh too! assuming ayon and ish smith were options we asked for after the smith deal collapsed....we literally could have only had ersan, sanders, and henson under contract next year

[BuckPack]

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.

This provides a reasonable explanation as to why the Bucks might have preferred to keep Ellis.

To be honest, I hadn't thought of it in the way that BP describes it here. That isn't a half bad plan. Worst case the Bucks would have gone into next season having cleared the salaries of Ellis, Redick, and Smith (and Jennings, if they want to clear that one).

I'll say this - I've heard of worse plans. That being said, as BP noted above you have to fault them on the execution of the plan. Only achieving 50% of an all-in plan is the worst of all possible worlds. I'm not sure why they would not have insisted on seeing Atlanta's signature on the bottom line before pulling the trigger on Redick.

Interestingly, Redick was always the more likely deal of the two. They think they can keep here him.