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The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe)

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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3221 » by BuckPack » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:26 pm

raferfenix wrote:It is pretty remarkable that our desire to keep Monta likely led to Ferry backing out at the last minute.

Hell, I'd rather deal a Monta + Daly / Udoh package than the Moute + #1 pick + Udrih one we've been hearing about.

Things never should have gotten to the last minute with us pushing to keep Monta.

Redick would have complimented Josh Smith quite well, whereas Ellis and Smith taking and missing deep 2's and 3's at historic rates would have been nasty to say the least.


I haven't heard definitively yet whether the deal would have been completed with Ellis. Maybe. But perhaps the Hawks would have pulled the same garbage at the last minute and kept Josh anyway.

Given the team that the Bucks would have rolled with post-deadline, the 1st rounder would likely have been in the late teens-early twenties. Worth the shot IMO (while creating some LT salary cap space as well).
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3222 » by raferfenix » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:26 pm

BuckPack wrote:
Interestingly, Redick was always the more likely deal of the two. They think they can keep here him.


This is why I don't get the insistence on keeping Monta Ellis.

If we're going to try and commit to Redick, commit to Redick. Don't play games like this - it ended up costing us badly.

*Edited to add new info from BuckPack:

I haven't heard definitively yet whether the deal would have been completed with Ellis. Maybe. But perhaps the Hawks would have pulled the same garbage at the last minute and kept Josh anyway.

Given the team that the Bucks would have rolled with post-deadline, the 1st rounder would likely have been in the late teens-early twenties. Worth the shot IMO (while creating some LT salary cap space as well).


I would vastly prefer for this to be the case, if only to preserve any semblance of hope in this front office.

Maybe the hold up was whether we would have given up a 1st rounder in addition to Ellis, whereas we were trying to pawn of Moute's contract on them instead.

Certainly doesn't seem like the Hawks would have been clamoring for the extra money he has on his deal, even if they like Luc.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3223 » by BigDoggyStyle » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:35 pm

BuckPack wrote:
raferfenix wrote:It is pretty remarkable that our desire to keep Monta likely led to Ferry backing out at the last minute.

Hell, I'd rather deal a Monta + Daly / Udoh package than the Moute + #1 pick + Udrih one we've been hearing about.

Things never should have gotten to the last minute with us pushing to keep Monta.

Redick would have complimented Josh Smith quite well, whereas Ellis and Smith taking and missing deep 2's and 3's at historic rates would have been nasty to say the least.


I haven't heard definitively yet whether the deal would have been completed with Ellis. Maybe. But perhaps the Hawks would have pulled the same garbage at the last minute and kept Josh anyway.

Given the team that the Bucks would have rolled with post-deadline, the 1st rounder would likely have been in the late teens-early twenties. Worth the shot IMO (while creating some LT salary cap space as well).


Do you think the possibility of a S&T deal in the offseason for Smith exists? Or has that bridge with Atlanta now been burnt? I would think that a S&T would greatly increase the odds of Smith coming to Milwaukee, and Atlanta obviously has interest in some of our players.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3224 » by paulpressey25 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:38 pm

SupremeHustle wrote:This thread was awesome then turned sad with people trying to come to terms about why their dog was suddenly murdered.


That really is a good way to put it. That's how I feel.

This was the greatest thread in our history for that 60 minute stretch. Santa Claus was coming. He was bringing the all the toys. We'd be the center of the NBA universe for the next week. We'd actually have a top 20 player on our roster for the first time in ages. All the years of Herb Kohl futility temporarily erased in one giant board orgasm. Excitement, swag, local media coverage. All of it.

Then those tweets from the national guys....."Atlanta keeping Josh Smith, Bucks out #tradedeadline"

This is going to take a long time to recover from.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3225 » by bucknz » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:40 pm

The bucks have chosen a direction. That is go all-in for the 7th seed in the east this year. Try to beat New York in 1st round (optimistic goal)
And...collect as many PF's and C's along the way (my count 8/14 rostered players not including Moute). Hammond loves his PF's.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3226 » by whatthe_buck!? » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:40 pm

the Hawks walked away, literally, at the very last minute.

I don't know why the Hawks did it (I assume they didn't want salary beyond this year, but it might also have been that they didn't want to trade Smith to an EC competitor) and perhaps if there were more time the Bucks could have reworked the deal. But then why didn't the Hawks come back 15 minutes before the deadline?

The Bucks tried to go all-in this year, creating a boatload of cap room to start over if they didn't succeed. To their credit, they get damn close. To their detriment, they didn't get there. Because of past errors, I'm less likely to excuse the latter but at least this wasn't due to lack of effort or imagination this time.


Do u blame the Hawks FO more for breaking promises made to the Bucks or the Bucks FO more for allowing the Hawks to string them along all the way until the minute before the deadline without forcing the Hawks to give them a yes or no response sometime before (like even say 15 minutes before) the deadline hit?
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3227 » by TheDIsSilent » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:44 pm

Woelfel said on the last post game show, the day before the deadline, that they wanted Sanders. It didn't sound like Atlanta has much interest in Jennings, Ilyasova, or Monta. In fact, it sounds like ATL didn't want Monta at all because he was potential future salary, although Monta would have made it easier to sell the trade to their fans.

Woelfel also said that Atlanta was considering Udrih + Dalembert + 1st, which accomplishes the no future salary requirement.

Atlanta claims they didn't want future salary so them taking Udoh + Moute doesn't make sense considering that would have added 9M next year. However, I don't understand why we didn't trade Dalembert instead to meet the future salary demand. It really appears that the Bucks wanted to clear Moute and Udoh off the books next year and forced future salary onto ATL. It also makes me wonder if a large part of this plan wasn't Hammond trying to force ATL to be so bad that they fall out of the playoffs and likely ensure the Bucks playoff appearance. If this is the case, I'm sure we could have found a 3rd team to take on Moute and/or Udoh for an expiring contract or TPE.

Furthermore, we have Udoh, Dalembert, Ayon, Gooden, Henson, and Przy who could all play minutes at the C if we desparately needed. WHY IN THE HELL IS SAMUEL DALEMBERT STILL HERE? We just showcased this guy for a week. If he wasn't goingto ATL and Udoh wasn't outgoing either, we should have had a back-up trade for Dalembert on deck. I'm would have felt better about just simply getting the TPE and 2nd that Miami got from Memphis for Dalembert.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3228 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:45 pm

the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3229 » by Baddy Chuck » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:46 pm

TheDIsSilent wrote:Furthermore, we have Udoh, Dalembert, Ayon, Gooden, Henson, and Przy who could all play minutes at the C if we desparately needed. WHY IN THE HELL IS SAMUEL DALEMBERT STILL HERE? We just showcased this guy for a week. If he wasn't goingto ATL and Udoh wasn't outgoing either, we should have had a back-up trade for Dalembert on deck. I'm would have felt better about just simply getting the TPE and 2nd that Miami got from Memphis for Dalembert.

With Udoh sucking recently and the scare to Larry I have to believe Hammond and Kohl had Dally as "near untouchable".
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3230 » by jtrinaldi » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:49 pm

am I the only one that thinks that the second lineup PF and Center should be Dally and Henson. Henson is not getting enough respect.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3231 » by JimmyTheKid » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:49 pm

I'm more depressed the more I read. I thought the Bucks keeping Monta had nothing to do potentially acquiring JSmith. Looks like it might have. What a f***ing joke. Now I see that the Bucks think they can keep Redick long term. Ok, fine, so why was Monta untouchable at the deadline? Such backward ass thinking.

Jennings/Ish
Redick/DHarris
Smith/Dunleavy
Ersan/Henson/Gooden
Sanders/Dalembert/Ayon/Pryz

is a million times better than...

Jennings/Ish
Ellis/Redick
LMRAM/Dunleavy
Ersan/Henson/Gooden
Sanders/Dalembert/Ayon/Pryz
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3232 » by TheDIsSilent » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:51 pm

am I the only one that thinks that the second lineup PF and Center should be Dally and Henson. Henson is not getting enough respect.


No, Dalembert is one of the best back-up C's in the NBA unquestionably, but he's not impacting the game like Josh Smith would have. You have to keep you goals in front of you.

I'm more depressed the more I read. I thought the Bucks keeping Monta had nothing to do potentially acquiring JSmith. Looks like it might have. What a f***ing joke. Now I see that the Bucks think they can keep Redick long term. Ok, fine, so why was Monta untouchable at the deadline? Such backward ass thinking.

Jennings/Ish
Redick/DHarris
Smith/Dunleavy
Ersan/Henson/Gooden
Sanders/Dalembert/Ayon/Pryz

is a million times better than...

Jennings/Ish
Ellis/Redick
LMRAM/Dunleavy
Ersan/Henson/Gooden
Sanders/Dalembert/Ayon/Pryz


Jennings/Ish
Reddick/Ellis
Smith/Dunleavy
Ilyasova/Henson
Sanders/Dalembert (or Udoh)Ayon/Przy

Is a very good team.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3233 » by jeremyd236 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:53 pm

JimmyTheKid wrote:Ok, fine, so why was Monta untouchable at the deadline?


Why do you and others continue to throw this statement around? There's absolutely 0 evidence that suggests this is true at all, and common sense should steer you in the right direction.

There's reports ATL wanted Monta...from a week ago. There's also reports that they wanted Sanders thrown in the trade, and Hammond wanted no part of that. Which do you think makes more sense?
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3234 » by drew881 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:54 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.


The Hawks didn't have all the cards in that they got lowballed by every team. If they held all the cards, they would have played each team and got a reasonable deal. Every team knew that Atlanta isn't going to re-sign Smith, and that diminished his value.

The reason Smith wasn't given away for free, is because the Hawks can still sign and trade him in the offseason. They can pretty much get the same deal from the Bucks if they want, but they still can hold out hope that another team will offer more value. I don't blame them for doing it, but they could have told us at 2:45 instead of 2:59. At least then we could have tried to do another deal, or at least maximize some of the expiring players.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3235 » by whatthe_buck!? » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:55 pm

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.

Them having more leverage than us is a given and thats fine. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that after we made our best offer, instead of letting the Hawks decide to draw us all the way through until literally the last minute to decide what they want to do, say that u need an answer like 20 minutes before the deadline or youre withdrawing the offer that way if it turns out theyre not gonna do it for what we're willing to offer we can execute a better backup up plan or at least have a tiny little bit of extra time to negotiate with the Magic...
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3236 » by JimmyTheKid » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:57 pm

jeremyd236 wrote:
JimmyTheKid wrote:Ok, fine, so why was Monta untouchable at the deadline?


Why do you and others continue to throw this statement around? There's absolutely 0 evidence that suggests this is true at all, and common sense should steer you in the right direction.


Except for Hammond, post deadline, saying that he wanted to "keep the core together." Not to mention the fact that Monta Ellis is still on this team. Two pretty big pieces of evidence.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3237 » by jtrinaldi » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:01 pm

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.

Them having more leverage than us is a given and thats fine. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that after we made our best offer, instead of letting the Hawks decide to draw us all the way through until literally the last minute to decide what they want to do, say that u need an answer like 20 minutes before the deadline or youre withdrawing the offer that way if it turns out theyre not gonna do it for what we're willing to offer we can execute a better backup up plan or at least have a tiny little bit of extra time to negotiate with the Magic...

This offseason the Hawks hold no cards. J Smoove does not have to agree to do S&T. He is not restricted. If he wants to sign with the bucks, he can sign here.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3238 » by JimmyTheKid » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:01 pm

TheDIsSilent wrote:Jennings/Ish
Reddick/Ellis
Smith/Dunleavy
Ilyasova/Henson
Sanders/Dalembert (or Udoh)Ayon/Przy

Is a very good team.


Yup. Take away Monta Ellis and its still a very good team.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3239 » by TheDIsSilent » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:06 pm

drew881 wrote:The reason Smith wasn't given away for free, is because the Hawks can still sign and trade him in the offseason. They can pretty much get the same deal from the Bucks if they want, but they still can hold out hope that another team will offer more value. I don't blame them for doing it, but they could have told us at 2:45 instead of 2:59. At least then we could have tried to do another deal, or at least maximize some of the expiring players.


This is what's so upsetting, it sounds like these teams had some ulterior motive. Atlanta knew that if they kept Milwaukee guessing until the last minute, that they couldn't negotiate other deals. That way Atlanta can suppress Milwaukee this year in the playoff picture and supress Milwaukee in the future from gaining possible future assets.

JimmyTheKid wrote:
TheDIsSilent wrote:Jennings/Ish
Reddick/Ellis
Smith/Dunleavy
Ilyasova/Henson
Sanders/Dalembert (or Udoh)Ayon/Przy

Is a very good team.


Yup. Take away Monta Ellis and its still a very good team.


Well, that's what you should look forward to because that's likely what Milwaukee will push for in the offseason, that roster minus Ellis. But for this playoff run, Ellis would have made a really good 6th man, much better than Harris.
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Re: The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe) 

Post#3240 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:06 pm

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.

Them having more leverage than us is a given and thats fine. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that after we made our best offer, instead of letting the Hawks decide to draw us all the way through until literally the last minute to decide what they want to do, say that u need an answer like 20 minutes before the deadline or youre withdrawing the offer that way if it turns out theyre not gonna do it for what we're willing to offer we can execute a better backup up plan or at least have a tiny little bit of extra time to negotiate with the Magic...


and why would atl agree to this? im sure we told them we had other options with our assets and we might pull them and all that yada yada bs in order for them to do a deal on tuesday night. big fin deal. atl probabaly was like yeah whatever :roll:
atl knew smith was the big ticket in the whole deadline deal.... the last 15 minutes is probably when the best offer WOULD come in. thats probably the time atl was actually going to decide if they traded their guy and not a minute before. you expect atl to tell teams they were off the hook if a deal wasnt made by then? and you expected us to demand something like that?

bottom line is in the last 15 minutes we had a verbal agreement. i dont know what the hell else we were supposed to do.

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