RealGM

jeremyd236 wrote:

JimmyTheKid wrote:Ok, fine, so why was Monta untouchable at the deadline?

Why do you and others continue to throw this statement around? There's absolutely 0 evidence that suggests this is true at all, and common sense should steer you in the right direction.

There's reports ATL wanted Monta...from a week ago. There's also reports that they wanted Sanders thrown in the trade, and Hammond wanted no part of that. Which do you think makes more sense?

It makes sense to me. The Bucks could have really thought that they would have a much better chance to get Smith to resign with them if they could keep Monta. The Nets wanted Monta to help their pursuit of Howard last offseason,and the Hawks have almost nobody under contract besides Horford next year and are going to be chasing Howard this offseason. I could see Monta being the key piece for the Hawks, and I could also see the Bucks considering him untouchable because they felt like Smith would be a half season rental unless they held onto him. Yes it would take real stupidity on the bucks part to behave that way, but u would probably of course agree that the fact it would take real stupidity on the bucks part to behave that was strengthens my case rather than weakens it. It actually fits right into a longstanding pattern.

JimmyTheKid wrote:

TheDIsSilent wrote:Jennings/Ish
Reddick/Ellis
Smith/Dunleavy
Ilyasova/Henson
Sanders/Dalembert (or Udoh)Ayon/Przy

Is a very good team.

Yup. Take away Monta Ellis and its an even better team.

FIFY

jtrinaldi wrote:

whatthe_buck!? wrote:

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.

Them having more leverage than us is a given and thats fine. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that after we made our best offer, instead of letting the Hawks decide to draw us all the way through until literally the last minute to decide what they want to do, say that u need an answer like 20 minutes before the deadline or youre withdrawing the offer that way if it turns out theyre not gonna do it for what we're willing to offer we can execute a better backup up plan or at least have a tiny little bit of extra time to negotiate with the Magic...

This offseason the Hawks hold no cards. J Smoove does not have to agree to do S&T. He is not restricted. If he wants to sign with the bucks, he can sign here.

Very true. We will be MUCH better off dealing with the Hawks in the offseason if a sign and trade is the avenue we choose to pursue than we were trying to work out a trade with them at the deadline. In that sense it could be argued its a positive the deal didn't go through before the deadline. Also, we could just sign him as an UFA in the offseason if we do decide we want him, an avenue I'm been advocating for while now (for any soon to be UFA, not just Smith). We certainly will have the cap space.

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:

whatthe_buck!? wrote:

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:the hawks had josh smith. we wanted him. so did alot of other teams. they held all the cards. we wernt ever gonna be able to put a gun on them in this.

Them having more leverage than us is a given and thats fine. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that after we made our best offer, instead of letting the Hawks decide to draw us all the way through until literally the last minute to decide what they want to do, say that u need an answer like 20 minutes before the deadline or youre withdrawing the offer that way if it turns out theyre not gonna do it for what we're willing to offer we can execute a better backup up plan or at least have a tiny little bit of extra time to negotiate with the Magic...

and why would atl agree to this? im sure we told them we had other options with our assets and we might pull them and all that yada yada bs in order for them to do a deal on tuesday night. big fin deal. atl probabaly was like yeah whatever
atl knew smith was the big ticket in the whole deadline deal.... the last 15 minutes is probably when the best offer WOULD come in. thats probably the time atl was actually going to decide if they traded their guy and not a minute before. you expect atl to tell teams they were off the hook if a deal wasnt made by then? and you expected us to demand something like that?

bottom line is in the last 15 minutes we had a verbal agreement. i dont know what the hell else we were supposed to do.

How do define "verbal agreement". To me that means that they said the deal was acceptable and this they backed out at the end. I have no idea based on the things that have come out that they agreed and then backed out. Not even bucks sources have said that's what happened, and if it did I can't imagine why they wouldn't let that out if they were as pissed at the hawks as it seems they were.

Lock up Larry. Go after Smoove if he is committed. Refuse to work a S&T with Atlanta, and hope that Smoove does not care about the extra 1.50 per year he could make with the max (if it really does come down to us offering him the max). I hope Josh would realize that if he wants to win, it would be dumb to trade valuable assets that he could play with (lol Udoh), when the Hawks do not have any leverage. I hope we **** atlanta over royally this offseason. Hopefully Dwight goes to Houston or Dallas, and Atlanta offers Monta a ridiculous deal.

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:and why would atl agree to this? im sure we told them we had other options with our assets and we might pull them and all that yada yada bs in order for them to do a deal on tuesday night. big fin deal. atl probabaly was like yeah whatever
atl knew smith was the big ticket in the whole deadline deal.... the last 15 minutes is probably when the best offer WOULD come in.

They wouldn't agree to it. It's called an ultimatum, one of the ways to create leverage for yourself in a situation like that. If the Hawks answer is they dont want to agree to anything 15 minutes before because they want to wait until the very last second so they can get the best possible offer that's ur clue they are probably on bs and probably don't like ur offer enough to accept but want to keep it on the table to use it to solicit better offers from other teams.

This is not a complicated concept and its one that should be almost instinct to someone who is truly qualified to run an NBA team. We got used plain and simple and we have nobody to blame but ourselves IMHO. Unless dude you're dealing with is ur brother or a longtime friend u know u can trust 100% u can't allow yourself to be in situation where ur other alternatives are erased because u want to believe the person you're dealing with is 100% on the up and up...

DanoMac wrote:

JimmyTheKid wrote:

TheDIsSilent wrote:Jennings/Ish
Reddick/Ellis
Smith/Dunleavy
Ilyasova/Henson
Sanders/Dalembert (or Udoh)Ayon/Przy

Is a very good team.

Yup. Take away Monta Ellis and its an even better team.

FIFY

I won't agree this team is better without Ellis, but I'll agree that he and brandon don't excel on the floor together. Ellis could start at PG in that line-up and this team would be very good w/ Jennings as 6th man or visa versa, but minimizing the time they are on the court together is a good idea.

I think the Suns stealing Morris from Houston was the best trade of the dead-line. Kid is money from the top of the arc, wish we had him on the Bucks.

DocHoliday wrote:I think the Suns stealing Morris from Houston was the best trade of the dead-line. Kid is money from the top of the arc, wish we had him on the Bucks.

Id say getting T-Rob for very little was the best.

BUCKnation wrote:

DocHoliday wrote:I think the Suns stealing Morris from Houston was the best trade of the dead-line. Kid is money from the top of the arc, wish we had him on the Bucks.

Id say getting T-Rob for very little was the best.

Yeah, Morey got another steal.

Morris is an aight role player. Nothing too special, but a quasi-fan favorite and liked by a lot of people...I was kind of surprised to see him traded for just a 2nd round pick. But I think it was a cap move.

Will be interesting to see how the Rockets are without any floor-spacing PFs.

not sure if this was posted already, but according to Hammond we weren't as close as everyone thought:

"There was never a true offer on the table from Atlanta," he said. "They never said this is exactly what it will take to get a deal done, but we just continued to negotiate, talk and exchange ideas until the very last moment. It was a possibility."

milwaukee bunks wrote:not sure if this was posted already, but according to Hammond we weren't as close as everyone thought:

"There was never a true offer on the table from Atlanta," he said. "They never said this is exactly what it will take to get a deal done, but we just continued to negotiate, talk and exchange ideas until the very last moment. It was a possibility."

I know it's always hard to trust what comes out of the mouth of a GM, but I believe Hammond here. My belief is that the Magic and Bucks had their backup deal done and kept waiting for Atlanta to commit to expanding the deal until Atlanta dropped off at the last second.

humanrefutation wrote:

milwaukee bunks wrote:not sure if this was posted already, but according to Hammond we weren't as close as everyone thought:

"There was never a true offer on the table from Atlanta," he said. "They never said this is exactly what it will take to get a deal done, but we just continued to negotiate, talk and exchange ideas until the very last moment. It was a possibility."

I know it's always hard to trust what comes out of the mouth of a GM, but I believe Hammond here. My belief is that the Magic and Bucks had their backup deal done and kept waiting for Atlanta to commit to expanding the deal until Atlanta dropped off at the last second.

agreed, but consensus seemed that the whole team thought we were going to pull it off... Jennings was even quoted to think so.

"Everybody's name was being thrown out there," Jennings said. "I really thought we were going to get Josh Smith. Just the fact the trade talks said he wanted to play in Milwaukee and things like that. It didn't happen, so we have to see Josh Smith tomorrow."

Morris

whatthe_buck!? wrote:

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:and why would atl agree to this? im sure we told them we had other options with our assets and we might pull them and all that yada yada bs in order for them to do a deal on tuesday night. big fin deal. atl probabaly was like yeah whatever
atl knew smith was the big ticket in the whole deadline deal.... the last 15 minutes is probably when the best offer WOULD come in.

They wouldn't agree to it. It's called an ultimatum, one of the ways to create leverage for yourself in a situation like that. If the Hawks answer is they dont want to agree to anything 15 minutes before because they want to wait until the very last second so they can get the best possible offer that's ur clue they are probably on bs and probably don't like ur offer enough to accept but want to keep it on the table to use it to solicit better offers from other teams.

This is not a complicated concept and its one that should be almost instinct to someone who is truly qualified to run an NBA team. We got used plain and simple and we have nobody to blame but ourselves IMHO. Unless dude you're dealing with is ur brother or a longtime friend u know u can trust 100% u can't allow yourself to be in situation where ur other alternatives are erased because u want to believe the person you're dealing with is 100% on the up and up...

dont talk to me about negotiation tactics if your a rookie. there are no real ultimatums in negotiations.... only the fake ass ones. that may be the first 2 lessons you learn in negotiation 101...

1. dont give an ultimatum because your adversary is gonna either ignore it or walk away
2. if you get an ultimatum from your adversary either ignore it or walk away

not a complicated concept my ass. ultimatums work as well as a shake on a plate

why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

tonyreyes123 wrote:why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:

tonyreyes123 wrote:why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

Trading is the best way to get a proven player. Especially if you're not a desirable FA destination.

Rudy Gay is less efficient than Monta for Toronto. The primary reason for their improvement has been Amir in Bargnani's spot.

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

He's shooting like 35%