The Josh Smith eventually to the Bucks thread (maybe)

[tonyreyes123]

why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

[tonyreyes123]

why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

Trading is the best way to get a proven player. Especially if you're not a desirable FA destination.

[AussieBuck]

Rudy Gay is less efficient than Monta for Toronto. The primary reason for their improvement has been Amir in Bargnani's spot.

[Baddy Chuck]

in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

He's shooting like 35%

[blazza18]

why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

Considering that is a win now move I'm pretty pissed we didn't at least try to get him.

Our FO is just so idiotic.

[Baddy Chuck]

Rudy Gay is less efficient than Monta for Toronto. The primary reason for their improvement has been Amir in Bargnani's spot.

Nah.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Rudy Gay is less efficient than Monta for Toronto. The primary reason for their improvement has been Amir in Bargnani's spot.

woah... i hadnt looked at his %. you gotta be right. his ts% sucks balls so far. but somethings changed beyond just amir for bargnani too. bargnanis been out of the lineup before. maybe lowry... maybe just the whole blend is better somehow. they are clearly better the little ive followed them basically score watching. weird whats going on there since the trade no less.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

in retrospect its bugging me quite a bit that we didnt take a look at gay either. he was panned horrendously here and hes blowing up in toronto making them obviously better in the process.

He's shooting like 35%

yeah **** it... im busted.

[AussieBuck]

Rudy Gay is less efficient than Monta for Toronto. The primary reason for their improvement has been Amir in Bargnani's spot.

woah... i hadnt looked at his %. you gotta be right. his ts% sucks balls so far. but somethings changed beyond just amir for bargnani too. bargnanis been out of the lineup before. maybe lowry... maybe just the whole blend is better somehow. they are clearly better the little ive followed them basically score watching. weird whats going on there since the trade no less.

Bargs out, Lowry lifting his game, Derozan being pushed out the 'star' role by Gay where he's less harmful to the offense, it's a bunch of stuff probably.

[whatthe_buck!?]

and why would atl agree to this? im sure we told them we had other options with our assets and we might pull them and all that yada yada bs in order for them to do a deal on tuesday night. big fin deal. atl probabaly was like yeah whatever
atl knew smith was the big ticket in the whole deadline deal.... the last 15 minutes is probably when the best offer WOULD come in.

They wouldn't agree to it. It's called an ultimatum, one of the ways to create leverage for yourself in a situation like that. If the Hawks answer is they dont want to agree to anything 15 minutes before because they want to wait until the very last second so they can get the best possible offer that's ur clue they are probably on bs and probably don't like ur offer enough to accept but want to keep it on the table to use it to solicit better offers from other teams.

This is not a complicated concept and its one that should be almost instinct to someone who is truly qualified to run an NBA team. We got used plain and simple and we have nobody to blame but ourselves IMHO. Unless dude you're dealing with is ur brother or a longtime friend u know u can trust 100% u can't allow yourself to be in situation where ur other alternatives are erased because u want to believe the person you're dealing with is 100% on the up and up...

dont talk to me about negotiation tactics if your a rookie. there are no real ultimatums in negotiations.... only the fake ass ones. that may be the first 2 lessons you learn in negotiation 101...

1. dont give an ultimatum because your adversary is gonna either ignore it or walk away
2. if you get an ultimatum from your adversary either ignore it or walk away

not a complicated concept my ass. ultimatums work as well as a shake on a plate

The reason youre wrong and your general negotiation guideline tactics arent applicable is that what Im talking about isn't some business deal with an open ended timetable. This is a unique deadline situation where if u don't get an answer far enough in advance u start missing out on alternatives. If its just an arbitrary ultimatum that is clearly being used to force a decision that's one thing and yeah it's not smart to let someone force into a decision that you're not ready to make. In this case, an ultimatum at some ridiculously late hour (we were both using 15 minutes before as and example) is reasonable because they know you're not lying when u say that if u don't have an answer by that time u start risking missing out on alternatives. There's your leverage. At that point if they walk away that's fine, u now know the probability they would have done a deal if u had waited (incredibly small and not worth waiting on).

As an aside, if you believe the info coming out from the Bucks side today about the Magic deal being the fallback deal and the Hawks one just being something the Bucks were shooting for but had no expectation of getting this argument about negotiating tactics is moot because then my premise about things going down a certain way on deadline day and second guessing it wasn't right. But then again that doesn't make u any less wrong.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

The reason youre wrong and your general negotiation guideline tactics arent applicable is that what Im talking about isn't some business deal with an open ended timetable. This is a unique deadline situation where if u don't get an answer far enough in advance u start missing out on alternatives. If its just an arbitrary ultimatum that is clearly being used to force a decision that's one thing and yeah it's not smart to let someone force into a decision that you're not ready to make. In this case, an ultimatum at some ridiculously late hour (we were both using 15 minutes before as and example) is reasonable because they know you're not lying when u say that if u don't have an answer by that time u start risking missing out on alternatives. There's your leverage. At that point if they walk away that's fine, u now know the probability they would have done a deal if u had waited (incredibly small and not worth waiting on).

As an aside, if you believe the info coming out from the Bucks side today about the Magic deal being the fallback deal and the Hawks one just being something the Bucks were shooting for but had no expectation of getting this argument about negotiating tactics is moot because then my premise about things going down a certain way on deadline day and second guessing it wasn't right. But then again that doesn't make u any less wrong.

as the hawks proved on thursday at 3.00 pm eastern standard time.....they were perfectly willing and able to ignore the arbitrary timetable set out by the league with its imposed trade deadline. the trade deadline was in fact a deadline for us.... it wasnt for them. they took offers and josh smith is still a hawk... he played tonight as a matter of fact.

you cant give an ultimatum in a situation where you dont have any leverage. you use ultimatums when you have all the leverage. thats why in the cba talks the owners used ultimatums and the players didnt. even then the players took the owners final offers like 23 times and just kept negotiating

[whatthe_buck!?]

The reason youre wrong and your general negotiation guideline tactics arent applicable is that what Im talking about isn't some business deal with an open ended timetable. This is a unique deadline situation where if u don't get an answer far enough in advance u start missing out on alternatives. If its just an arbitrary ultimatum that is clearly being used to force a decision that's one thing and yeah it's not smart to let someone force into a decision that you're not ready to make. In this case, an ultimatum at some ridiculously late hour (we were both using 15 minutes before as and example) is reasonable because they know you're not lying when u say that if u don't have an answer by that time u start risking missing out on alternatives. There's your leverage. At that point if they walk away that's fine, u now know the probability they would have done a deal if u had waited (incredibly small and not worth waiting on).

As an aside, if you believe the info coming out from the Bucks side today about the Magic deal being the fallback deal and the Hawks one just being something the Bucks were shooting for but had no expectation of getting this argument about negotiating tactics is moot because then my premise about things going down a certain way on deadline day and second guessing it wasn't right. But then again that doesn't make u any less wrong.

as the hawks proved on thursday at 3.00 pm eastern standard time.....they were perfectly willing and able to ignore the arbitrary timetable set out by the league with its imposed trade deadline. the trade deadline was in fact a deadline for us.... it wasnt for them. they took offers and josh smith is still a hawk... he played tonight as a matter of fact.

you cant give an ultimatum in a situation where you dont have any leverage. you use ultimatums when you have all the leverage. thats why in the cba talks the owners used ultimatums and the players didnt. even then the players took the owners final offers like 23 times and just kept negotiating

That would be true if they had ALL the leverage, but how the hell can u argue they had all the leverage? They now risk losing Smith as an asset for nothing in the offseason. What r u talking about?

And that's not really the point anyway. It wasn't about forcing them into a disadvantageous situation. What im talking about is to keep ourselves out of the disadvantageous position of not knowing exactly where we were with the hawks past the point of being able to capitalize on other potential offers from other teams besides the magic.

[humanrefutation]

This thread was awesome then turned sad with people trying to come to terms about why their dog was suddenly murdered.

That really is a good way to put it. That's how I feel.

This was the greatest thread in our history for that 60 minute stretch. Santa Claus was coming. He was bringing the all the toys. We'd be the center of the NBA universe for the next week. We'd actually have a top 20 player on our roster for the first time in ages. All the years of Herb Kohl futility temporarily erased in one giant board orgasm. Excitement, swag, local media coverage. All of it.

Then those tweets from the national guys....."Atlanta keeping Josh Smith, Bucks out #tradedeadline"

This is going to take a long time to recover from.

I definitely agree about this thread being amazing for that 60 minute stretch and that acquiring Smith would have made our team relevant nationally for a week, but I don't agree that everyone here was excited about trading for Smith or that Smith was a top 20 player. I think the majority of the board was actually more nervous that we'd make a catastrophic decision than they were excited that we're going to acquire Smith. It was like we were all having a tumor removed by an inexperienced surgeon and hoping he wouldn't screw up and kill us. When we all woke up from the anesthesia, we realized that we were still living, but also realized that the tumor was still there.

[Ayt]

why the hell didn't we trade for Harden? Ellis/Harris would have gotten it deal easily.

OKC wouldn't have wanted a scrub like Ellis instead of Kevin Martin and we also didn't have a potentially nice lotto pick to send them like Houston did with the Toronto pick. Harris also doesn't fit like Lamb as a young guy because he's a strict SF and they already have a decent SF on their roster.