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Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor

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Post#46 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:07 pm by DocHoliday

HurricaneKid wrote:
whatthe_buck!? wrote:If we jump in and offer either Daly/2nd or Udoh/Dunleavy/2nd for Perk/Lamb/1st and get the thunder to agree I'm ecstatic no matter what else happens the rest of the deadline. I don't even care if we trade for Smith and Redick after, in fact if we did I'd be perfectly fine because we'd have a crappier first to send out for Redick and we could keep ours...


Do you think either of those packages, the ones with guys who play sparingly or not at all, are better than a 15/10 player on a team friendly deal? They aren't even close.


Dalembert has avg close to that as a starter when Sanders was out and gets paid the same. Anyway the Suns turned down the deal, so maybe OKC is still looking to dump Perkins salary.
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Post#47 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:07 pm by whatthe_buck!?

HurricaneKid wrote:
whatthe_buck!? wrote:If we jump in and offer either Daly/2nd or Udoh/Dunleavy/2nd for Perk/Lamb/1st and get the thunder to agree I'm ecstatic no matter what else happens the rest of the deadline. I don't even care if we trade for Smith and Redick after, in fact if we did I'd be perfectly fine because we'd have a crappier first to send out for Redick and we could keep ours...


Do you think either of those packages, the ones with guys who play sparingly or not at all, are better than a 15/10 player on a team friendly deal? They aren't even close.

No. But the suns apparently turned down the offer. If we give them expirings for Perkins with a big man included who knows, that might be enough to get them to say yes. Don't underestimate how much of a burden Perkins contract is to the Thunder...
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Post#48 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:26 pm by Siefer

I'd give up quite a bit to get Bledsoe. A young core of Bledsoe/Harris/Henson/Sanders would be pretty damn exciting.

Hell, as long as I'm dreaming...

Bledsoe/Gordon/Harris/Henson/Sanders :droop:
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Post#49 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:34 pm by whatthe_buck!?

Siefer wrote:I'd give up quite a bit to get Bledsoe. A young core of Bledsoe/Harris/Henson/Sanders would be pretty damn exciting.

Hell, as long as I'm dreaming...

Bledsoe/Gordon/Harris/Henson/Sanders :droop:

Yes please
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Post#50 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:36 pm by emunney

I don't see where there's a strong argument that Gortat is significantly better than Perkins or Dalembert.
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Post#51 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:36 pm by Baddy Chuck

I'd give up quite a bit to get Lamb. Like Dally, Luc and a first for Lamb/Perkins. I'd throw in Udoh or MDJ for Maynor if they wanted too.
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Post#52 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:38 pm by DocHoliday

Siefer wrote:I'd give up quite a bit to get Bledsoe. A young core of Bledsoe/Harris/Henson/Sanders would be pretty damn exciting.

Hell, as long as I'm dreaming...

Bledsoe/Gordon/Harris/Henson/Sanders :droop:


Bledsoe/JLamb/Harris/Henson/Sanders 8-)
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Post#53 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:57 pm by HurricaneKid

emunney wrote:I don't see where there's a strong argument that Gortat is significantly better than Perkins or Dalembert.


No wonder everyone thinks Hammond and all our coaches are bums. All our scrubs making arsurd amounts of money are equivalent to borderline all-stars on team friendly deals. I mean lets just trade Toby and Mbah for Durant and Monta and Pryz for LeBron. We would have one helluva team.
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Post#54 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:57 pm by Styrian

Ilyasova and Dunleavy for Martin, PJIII and Toronto first round pick.
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Post#55 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:07 pm by whatthe_buck!?

HurricaneKid wrote:
emunney wrote:I don't see where there's a strong argument that Gortat is significantly better than Perkins or Dalembert.


No wonder everyone thinks Hammond and all our coaches are bums. All our scrubs making arsurd amounts of money are equivalent to borderline all-stars on team friendly deals. I mean lets just trade Toby and Mbah for Durant and Monta and Pryz for LeBron. We would have one helluva team.

Why are u being a d*ck? And u never responded to my post. U do at least understand that a Perkins/Lamb trade is much more about unloading Perkins to clear his contract than to get back a huge upgrade at center right?
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Post#56 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:11 pm by emunney

HurricaneKid wrote:
emunney wrote:I don't see where there's a strong argument that Gortat is significantly better than Perkins or Dalembert.


No wonder everyone thinks Hammond and all our coaches are bums. All our scrubs making arsurd amounts of money are equivalent to borderline all-stars on team friendly deals. I mean lets just trade Toby and Mbah for Durant and Monta and Pryz for LeBron. We would have one helluva team.


Lol at Gortat being any kind of all-star. He had a career box score year playing with Steve Nash. Hooray. He's borderline Jamaal Magloire.

I love how all these teams who are far worse than us are somehow full of players who are far better than ours.
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Post#57 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:19 pm by Villanoeyebrows

Expiring contract guys for Perkins and J Lamb would be on the top of my list of moves to make. Perkins becomes our backup center, Lamb is our first guard off the bench, and then our start next year when Ellis inevitable moves on to wherever the money is for him.

Jennings, J Lamb, Tobias, Ersan, Sanders is respectable, and Perkins gives you muscle and attitude off the bench. I understand we could have just drafted Lamb without taking on Perkins' salary, I get that. But Perkins is an albatross contract on the Thunder (what? even Presti makes mistakes?) but not a horrible player.

I would feel better about this move than any other we have talked about.
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Post#58 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:40 pm by HurricaneKid

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:
whatthe_buck!? wrote:If we jump in and offer either Daly/2nd or Udoh/Dunleavy/2nd for Perk/Lamb/1st and get the thunder to agree I'm ecstatic no matter what else happens the rest of the deadline. I don't even care if we trade for Smith and Redick after, in fact if we did I'd be perfectly fine because we'd have a crappier first to send out for Redick and we could keep ours...


Do you think either of those packages, the ones with guys who play sparingly or not at all, are better than a 15/10 player on a team friendly deal? They aren't even close.

No. But the suns apparently turned down the offer. If we give them expirings for Perkins with a big man included who knows, that might be enough to get them to say yes. Don't underestimate how much of a burden Perkins contract is to the Thunder...


I completely agree that for the Thunder it is about dumping Perk and his salary. It gets them out of a punitive tax situation and all of a sudden they get an asset for someone that a lot of folks expect to get amnestied.

The Suns, correctly, likely turned down the deal. But if you look back at the first few pages people here thought that the Suns package was a poor one to get Perk, Lamb, and their #1 (likely ~29th) and that Hammond could easily put together a much better package around... Dally? So yes, if you think I was being a dick to anyone that felt that Dally was >>>> Gortat I guess I kind of was.

I don't get why people are begging for Monta to opt out at the end of the year but think that some other team is going to pay through the nose to get him. It just doesn't work that way. I think the board at large overestimates ALL our assets; and not by a small amount.
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Post#59 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:46 pm by emunney

Exactly nobody said Dally >>> Gortat. But unlike Gortat, Dally expires this year, which should be important to them if the plan on adding anybody, or keeping Martin, while staying under the luxury tax they traded James Harden to avoid.

As far as the Monta thing, it's not really that far fetched to think that we could have a different opinion about a player than an NBA decision maker does, is it?
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Post#60 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:49 pm by blazza18

DocHoliday wrote:We have the assets to go get JLamb and probably Bledsoe if we had the damn sense to try. It's frustrating to watch this FO chase $10million dollar (lol) Redick and Max JSmith. Hell Houston is even floating TJones for a 1st. I bet we could trade them Moute for him straight up. We would still have enough veteran leadership on the team to get the precious 8th seed.


Nailed it right here. QFT dude.
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Post#61 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:52 pm by Godgers

Bucks should be going hard for Bledsoe and Gordon.
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Post#62 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:57 pm by whatthe_buck!?

HurricaneKid wrote:I completely agree that for the Thunder it is about dumping Perk and his salary. It gets them out of a punitive tax situation and all of a sudden they get an asset for someone that a lot of folks expect to get amnestied.

The Suns, correctly, likely turned down the deal. But if you look back at the first few pages people here thought that the Suns package was a poor one to get Perk, Lamb, and their #1 (likely ~29th) and that Hammond could easily put together a much better package around... Dally? So yes, if you think I was being a dick to anyone that felt that Dally was >>>> Gortat I guess I kind of was.

I don't get why people are begging for Monta to opt out at the end of the year but think that some other team is going to pay through the nose to get him. It just doesn't work that way. I think the board at large overestimates ALL our assets; and not by a small amount.

Based on the bolded part of your post it is clear the point, intentionally or unintentionally, is going over ur head. What u are missing is the fact that a players trade value is decided by a lot more than just on court production. You know that. The fact is that Dalys contract expires this season, whereas Gortats extends for another season or two after this one.

While it is impossible to know how much more valuable -if at all- that makes Daly as far as that specific aspect of his trade value compared to Gortat in the eyes of the Thunders FO, but based on what we do know (ie that the reason the thunder are looking to give up assets to move Perkins is to rid themselves of his contract because they are fairly cash-strapped atm), I have zero idea how someone who comes off as smart u do couldn't even begin to conceive of the possibility that Daly could be AS valuable or maybe even MORE valuable in a trade to OKC than Gortat even if I'm conceding to u that Gortat is the better player between the two of them. Is that what you're saying? That u can't even envision how there is a possibility that it could be reasonable based on OKCs motivations for trading Perk that they could value Daly as much or more than Gortat?
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Post#63 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:24 pm by HurricaneKid

whatthe_buck!? wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:I completely agree that for the Thunder it is about dumping Perk and his salary. It gets them out of a punitive tax situation and all of a sudden they get an asset for someone that a lot of folks expect to get amnestied.

The Suns, correctly, likely turned down the deal. But if you look back at the first few pages people here thought that the Suns package was a poor one to get Perk, Lamb, and their #1 (likely ~29th) and that Hammond could easily put together a much better package around... Dally? So yes, if you think I was being a dick to anyone that felt that Dally was >>>> Gortat I guess I kind of was.

I don't get why people are begging for Monta to opt out at the end of the year but think that some other team is going to pay through the nose to get him. It just doesn't work that way. I think the board at large overestimates ALL our assets; and not by a small amount.

Based on the bolded part of your post it is clear the point, intentionally or unintentionally, is going over ur head. What u are missing is the fact that a players trade value is decided by a lot more than just on court production. You know that. The fact is that Dalys contract expires this season, whereas Gortats extends for another season or two after this one.

While it is impossible to know how much more valuable -if at all- that makes Daly as far as that specific aspect of his trade value compared to Gortat in the eyes of the Thunders FO, but based on what we do know (ie that the reason the thunder are looking to give up assets to move Perkins is to rid themselves of his contract because they are fairly cash-strapped atm), I have zero idea how someone who comes off as smart u do couldn't even begin to conceive of the possibility that Daly could be AS valuable or maybe even MORE valuable in a trade to OKC than Gortat even if I'm conceding to u that Gortat is the better player between the two of them. Is that what you're saying? That u can't even envision how there is a possibility that it could be reasonable based on OKCs motivations for trading Perk that they could value Daly as much or more than Gortat?


A player's trade value is substantially dictated by their contract. The new CBA is extremely punitive when it comes to taxation (exceeding the tax threshold). This minimizes the value of expiring contracts as in the past it allowed teams with cap issues flexibility. Now teams with cap issues largely just want to get rid of those problems as they are EXPENSIVE. So the biggest real benefit of an expiring is that it provides flexibility by allowing a team to cut bait with a player. Which isn't nearly the benefit it once was. So we are back to evaluating talent and the contract associated with that talent. And frankly, no, I don't believe that there is a GM in the NBA that would value Dally over Gortat. If it truly was OKC's desire to simply cut as much salary as possible and to allow Daly to leave at the end of the year they would STILL prefer Gortat. This is largely due to the fact that Gortat is on a very good contract that would allow OKC- or anyone else- to turn him into a pick at draft time. So they would end up with a better player for a half season and then a pick rather than letting the player leave for nothing.
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Post#64 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:36 pm by whatthe_buck!?

HurricaneKid wrote:
whatthe_buck!? wrote:
HurricaneKid wrote:I completely agree that for the Thunder it is about dumping Perk and his salary. It gets them out of a punitive tax situation and all of a sudden they get an asset for someone that a lot of folks expect to get amnestied.

The Suns, correctly, likely turned down the deal. But if you look back at the first few pages people here thought that the Suns package was a poor one to get Perk, Lamb, and their #1 (likely ~29th) and that Hammond could easily put together a much better package around... Dally? So yes, if you think I was being a dick to anyone that felt that Dally was >>>> Gortat I guess I kind of was.

I don't get why people are begging for Monta to opt out at the end of the year but think that some other team is going to pay through the nose to get him. It just doesn't work that way. I think the board at large overestimates ALL our assets; and not by a small amount.

Based on the bolded part of your post it is clear the point, intentionally or unintentionally, is going over ur head. What u are missing is the fact that a players trade value is decided by a lot more than just on court production. You know that. The fact is that Dalys contract expires this season, whereas Gortats extends for another season or two after this one.

While it is impossible to know how much more valuable -if at all- that makes Daly as far as that specific aspect of his trade value compared to Gortat in the eyes of the Thunders FO, but based on what we do know (ie that the reason the thunder are looking to give up assets to move Perkins is to rid themselves of his contract because they are fairly cash-strapped atm), I have zero idea how someone who comes off as smart u do couldn't even begin to conceive of the possibility that Daly could be AS valuable or maybe even MORE valuable in a trade to OKC than Gortat even if I'm conceding to u that Gortat is the better player between the two of them. Is that what you're saying? That u can't even envision how there is a possibility that it could be reasonable based on OKCs motivations for trading Perk that they could value Daly as much or more than Gortat?


A player's trade value is substantially dictated by their contract. The new CBA is extremely punitive when it comes to taxation (exceeding the tax threshold). This minimizes the value of expiring contracts as in the past it allowed teams with cap issues flexibility. Now teams with cap issues largely just want to get rid of those problems as they are EXPENSIVE. So the biggest real benefit of an expiring is that it provides flexibility by allowing a team to cut bait with a player. Which isn't nearly the benefit it once was. So we are back to evaluating talent and the contract associated with that talent. And frankly, no, I don't believe that there is a GM in the NBA that would value Dally over Gortat. If it truly was OKC's desire to simply cut as much salary as possible and to allow Daly to leave at the end of the year they would STILL prefer Gortat. This is largely due to the fact that Gortat is on a very good contract that would allow OKC- or anyone else- to turn him into a pick at draft time. So they would end up with a better player for a half season and then a pick rather than letting the player leave for nothing.


*blinks and rubs eyes repeatedly while reading ur post over and over*
I'm trying to understand ur argument. Are u seriously trying to argue that somehow the new, more punitive CBA as far as Lux tax makes it less important/valuable for teams close to the lux tax to unload overpaid relatively replaceable players? If that's seriously going to be the argument u choose to make, my counter is going be that u badly need to read more about the changes implemented in the new CBA versus what it was before and gain a better understanding of it before u continue to hang yourself. Did u notice what Memphis gave up to the Cavs earlier this year to get back Jon f*cking Leuer?
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Post#65 Re: Gortat to OKC for Perk+JLamb+1st Rumor
Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:46 pm by HurricaneKid

We are arguing two different things at this point. I am arguing that offering Daly is no where near the package that Pho supposedly had on the table. You are saying offering Daly, etc makes sense for both teams as OKC may very well give up a LOT to get rid of Perk. Which I agree with.

At least I hope that is what you are arguing and not that Gortat is an overpaid replaceable player.
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