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[sdn40]

I'm not going to sing the praises of the organization, but I will say this. Not too long ago every fan on here was complaining about the Bucks having a roster full of bad contracts that bring along with it zero flexibility. Well you got your wish. This offseason contains all the flexibility you could ask for. What the right moves are is anyones guess, but the roster is ripe for a positive turnover along with a few young pieces

I have noticed this line of thought from folks who are pleased with Hammond and his work.

The challenge is that we had flexibility last year also and didnt do much with it as evidenced by our current sub .500 record. The issue isn't flexibility. Hammond could have created flexibIlIty in 2008 by trading Redd for expiring contracts and not trading for RJ. We did not need to wait five years.

The issue is talent. Other than half a season Larry Sanders, Hammond has added no real needle moving talent to this team. He inherited a squad with two above average starters in Bogut and Redd. Five years later we have one above average starter in Sanders.

Can't say that I can argue with much of that other than to say what do fans want the Bucks to do ? No superstar is going to come here willingly ala Chris Paul, and no superstar is going to stay. You could play the lotto for a decade and come away with nothing. Toss in the fact that its so much easier to say tank tank tank when you aren't writing the checks. As I've hinted, the Bucks are in a bad place before they even start.

[AussieBuck]

The biggest story here is that Ellis wasn't getting traded regardless. That's riot worthy in itself. Hammonds' grand plan was an expensive **** stupid sabotage.

[sdn40]

The biggest story here is that Ellis wasn't getting traded regardless. That's riot worthy in itself. Hammonds' grand plan was an expensive **** stupid sabotage.

The biggest story is that fans believe anyone wanted Ellis. Go ahead and bark at the moon if you want but at least be intelligent about it. The reason we didnt trade Ellis for Smith is the same reason we didnt trade Ellis for Durant. Unless you have a link showing a deal was left on the table involving Ellis, its just a bunch of hot air

[paul]

The biggest story here is that Ellis wasn't getting traded regardless. That's riot worthy in itself. Hammonds' grand plan was an expensive **** stupid sabotage.

Yeah we're on the same wavelength here.

The great irony in all this is that we were all hoping Hammond would use the Monta 'asset' to bring in something to avoid the Bogut trade being a complete bust, instead now we're all desperately hoping that Monta walks (thus making it a complete bust) so that the next guy he's brought in using an asset who plays exactly the same position as Monta but does so far better can actually move into the starting role next season (if we can resign him).

The biggest story is that fans believe anyone wanted Ellis. Go ahead and bark at the moon if you want but at least be intelligent about it. The reason we didnt trade Ellis for Smith is the same reason we didnt trade Ellis for Durant. Unless you have a link showing a deal was left on the table involving Ellis, its just a bunch of hot air

So you're saying Monta Ella not have it all?

Probably shouldn't have traded for him then I guess.

[AussieBuck]

The biggest story here is that Ellis wasn't getting traded regardless. That's riot worthy in itself. Hammonds' grand plan was an expensive **** stupid sabotage.

The biggest story is that fans believe anyone wanted Ellis. Go ahead and bark at the moon if you want but at least be intelligent about it. The reason we didnt trade Ellis for Smith is the same reason we didnt trade Ellis for Durant. Unless you have a link showing a deal was left on the table involving Ellis, its just a bunch of hot air

Bellend.

[blazza18]

So you're saying Monta Ella not have it all?

Probably shouldn't have traded for him then I guess.

How else do we get the 8th seed last year then ? Oh wait...

[sdn40]

The biggest story here is that Ellis wasn't getting traded regardless. That's riot worthy in itself. Hammonds' grand plan was an expensive **** stupid sabotage.

The biggest story is that fans believe anyone wanted Ellis. Go ahead and bark at the moon if you want but at least be intelligent about it. The reason we didnt trade Ellis for Smith is the same reason we didnt trade Ellis for Durant. Unless you have a link showing a deal was left on the table involving Ellis, its just a bunch of hot air

Bellend.

PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NOT TOLERATED ON THIS BOARD - MD

[AussieBuck]

[whatthe_buck!?]

Vacating Squad 6 (or again, whatever it's called) doesn't cost the team or the fans anything. The seats are bought and paid for. So what I'm saying is if these fans want to really send a message, they should collectively not show up.

Maybe the the entire group doesn't care about today's moves and are perfectly fine with the status quo. But from the looks of this thread there are some from the group that don't like the management.

So take a stand and really make a statement. A bagnight would mean nothing compared to members of the vocal group that everyone notices not showing up.

But don't the bucks sanction/pay for sector 7? If so vacating the section would probably just result in the team cancelling the whole program (if they're not already planning to at the end of the season)...

[Wilford Brimley]

I'm not going to sing the praises of the organization, but I will say this. Not too long ago every fan on here was complaining about the Bucks having a roster full of bad contracts that bring along with it zero flexibility. Well you got your wish. This offseason contains all the flexibility you could ask for. What the right moves are is anyones guess, but the roster is ripe for a positive turnover along with a few young pieces

I have noticed this line of thought from folks who are pleased with Hammond and his work.

The challenge is that we had flexibility last year also and didnt do much with it as evidenced by our current sub .500 record. The issue isn't flexibility. Hammond could have created flexibIlIty in 2008 by trading Redd for expiring contracts and not trading for RJ. We did not need to wait five years.

The issue is talent. Other than half a season Larry Sanders, Hammond has added no real needle moving talent to this team. He inherited a squad with two above average starters in Bogut and Redd. Five years later we have one above average starter in Sanders.

Can't say that I can argue with much of that other than to say what do fans want the Bucks to do ? No superstar is going to come here willingly ala Chris Paul, and no superstar is going to stay. You could play the lotto for a decade and come away with nothing. Toss in the fact that its so much easier to say tank tank tank when you aren't writing the checks. As I've hinted, the Bucks are in a bad place before they even start.

Make some good draft picks would be a start.

[Wilford Brimley]

I agree with DrugBust here. The best thing that could happen is that the Bucks miss the playoffs, and no one shows up for the games.

[whatthe_buck!?]

I agree with DrugBust here. The best thing that could happen is that the Bucks miss the playoffs, and no one shows up for the games.

If everybody took that approach though, the Bucks would up and leave. Id rather be tortured by this terrible franchise til the day I die than have it relocate. Maybe that makes me just as guilty as Herb Kohl for this teams unending mediocrity, but I just love the sh*t out of the Bucks, I can't help it at this point...

[ampd]

I agree with DrugBust here. The best thing that could happen is that the Bucks miss the playoffs, and no one shows up for the games.

You guys are hilarious. If we miss the playoffs we will just chase the playoffs again next season. Team direction isn't changing unless the ownership does.

[Sigra]

So you're saying Monta Ella not have it all?

Probably shouldn't have traded for him then I guess.

When we traded for him he had better stats. This season he has terrible stats. Whatever value he had before we traded for him now it is 10x worse.

Regarding new bag night or whatever guys plan to do on satarday, I am not sure how is that diferent of what Bucks fans do all those years and that is creating bad atmosphere. I remember when we traded for Monta he put text in local newspaper and was happy to come here. Then in his first game in BC it was empty crowd (some local NCAA team played or something). It kills any desire to play for this pathetic franchise. Pathetic not because of owner or GM but because of that terrible fan base.

[Buckrageous]

"Terrible fan base?" Thats BS. Why should fans come out in droves to see a team that isnt even trying to win. Its not the customer's fault when they dont buy bad products. The Bucks are a bad product with a goal to be an average product. They arent even really trying to win now as PP pointed out they are trying to make marginal improvements in order to barely make the playoffs. They havent even been successful at that. In a 30 team league their goal at the deadline is to be the 16th best team and they have failed. Now you want to blame the fans? The fans didnt give a longte deal to Drew Gooden, refuse to trade within the division, trade for Corey maggette, etc. that was management.
People dont suck because they didnt buy Pepsi Clear (or whatever it was called), Pepsi Clear sucked. People didnt suck because they didnt buy enough Yugos, the Yugos sucked. And fans dont suck because they dont buy the Bucks, the Bucks suck.

[paulpressey25]

I've been thinking about this thread since yesterday afternoon. If a bunch of you guys want to show some "fan support" at a future game, more power to you. That said, I've come to the conclusion that this time it would not be productive.

I think five years ago we were dealing with a younger, more engaged version of Herb Kohl. And we had a GM who had run his course and needed to be replaced. Combine that with actual crowds of people that showed up at games and cared about things.

At this point, I think a second bag night with Kohl as the focus would be counter-productive. I'm not sure he has the mental acuity to understand it. If he did, he would have seen the recent mistakes of his ownership tenure here and we wouldn't have gone through the circus of what we did yesterday at the trade deadline.

I think this board should consider two goals:

1. All public intentions from Kohl are to keep the team here after his ownership tenure. I'd hate to have an event that causes him to re-think that position. At his age, I don't think he's able to focus as rationally on things as he did five years ago.

2. Yesterday was a bit of a tipping point with some in the media and the fanbase. Many people previously on the sidelines, including Ted Davis on WSSP started to really question the strategy or lack thereof.

I think some sort of public relations campaign with the hardcore fans here to continue the momentum about the lack of a "vision" might end up being more effective. I'm not sure what form this takes, but I don't think bag night II focused on Kohl personally is the answer for it.

Thoughts?

[upnorthfan]

If you organize a "bag night" event again, I would urge you not to use sector 7, who are getting free tickets to support the Bucks during games (not use those tickets to disbarge the organization), and by extention represents Ersan, kinda.

Just a recomendation

As I said yesterday, just get on board and lets make a playoff run and have fun for a change

[trwi7]

I've been thinking about this thread since yesterday afternoon. If a bunch of you guys want to show some "fan support" at a future game, more power to you. That said, I've come to the conclusion that this time it would not be productive.

I think five years ago we were dealing with a younger, more engaged version of Herb Kohl. And we had a GM who had run his course and needed to be replaced. Combine that with actual crowds of people that showed up at games and cared about things.

At this point, I think a second bag night with Kohl as the focus would be counter-productive. I'm not sure he has the mental acuity to understand it. If he did, he would have seen the recent mistakes of his ownership tenure here and we wouldn't have gone through the circus of what we did yesterday at the trade deadline.

I think this board should consider two goals:

1. All public intentions from Kohl are to keep the team here after his ownership tenure. I'd hate to have an event that causes him to re-think that position. At his age, I don't think he's able to focus as rationally on things as he did five years ago.

2. Yesterday was a bit of a tipping point with some in the media and the fanbase. Many people previously on the sidelines, including Ted Davis on WSSP started to really question the strategy or lack thereof.

I think some sort of public relations campaign with the hardcore fans here to continue the momentum about the lack of a "vision" might end up being more effective. I'm not sure what form this takes, but I don't think bag night II focused on Kohl personally is the answer for it.

Thoughts?

I kind of agree at this point. I don't think Kohl understood the first one tbh. I see it as a mostly futile effort. Like I said if we could get a bunch of people to just not show up and there ends up being like 1,000 people or less at a game that would hit Kohl more than anything a group of 20 or 50 or however many of us could do. It's only going to embarrass Kohl for one night and after that he's going to make sure no one can do it again.

[trwi7]

but because of that terrible fan base.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6AjJ9RwcUY[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivaXuq6wAqI[/youtube]

[paulpressey25]

I don't think Kohl understood the first one tbh.

In the first bag night he was able to deflect any blame off him and he could rationalize this was all "the kid's fault", i.e. Larry Harris.

This time around, I think he's far more senile and less capable of dealing with something like this. And if he really had any understanding of how to create a plan or strategy for an NBA team, he would have done it by now, rather than doubling down on the same garbage like he did yesterday.

But the people around him, i.e. everyone on Kohl's payroll from the front office down to Jim Paschke have to see the mess they are in. Is there some way to reach those people to try and effect change from within?

And given Kohl's advanced age, can those people now effect such change? Or are they too tied into Kohl and concerned (rightly) about their own paycheck next month?

Hammond still has these fan events, including season ticket holder calls. Maybe we get a group together that starts flooding those events. Again just brainstorming here.