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Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good player"

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Post#1 Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:18 pm by ReasonablySober

Good stuff:

Simmons (3:27 p.m.): Let's talk about the trades that did happen. What did you think of the Redick deal? I liked it for Milwaukee obviously. But I like all deals for Team X when Team X gets J.J. Redick. I'm a Redickite. Redickphile? Redickan?

Lowe (3:28 p.m.): Milwaukee paid a price for what might end up being a short-term rental, though one that will help them clinch a playoff berth they are 100 percent committed to cinching. They gave up Doron Lamb and Tobias Harris, along with Beno Udrih's expiring deal. Harris's departure is a particularly sad marker. The Bucks need a two-way wing player going forward, and there was great optimism around the league — both within the Bucks and elsewhere — that Harris, a bruiser with limited range and unproven defensive ability, might be that player. Guess not — or at least not in Milwaukee. Lamb is interesting, but he's shooting 35 percent in limited minutes. The Bucks get back Ish Smith, a deep reserve, and Gustavo Ayon, whom the Magic and Hornets both liked before dealing him. Ayon is a useful player who may struggle to get minutes in Milwaukee's crowded frontcourt. He's a smart passer and cutter on offense, and he's a decent defender.

Simmons (3:32 p.m.): Translation: This Redick trade was for NBA nerds only, a.k.a. the people who watch four games at once on a Monday night and know who any of these guys are. And for the record, I am a HUGE Gustavo Ayon fan. I may or may not have been involved in an "I think Orlando has been misusing Gustavo Ayon" conversation within the last few weeks. So I don't love this trade for Orlando because I like the two guys they gave up. Redick is a proven playoff guy. And a good teammate. The Bucks are better, I think.

Lowe (3:36 p.m.): Redick is obviously the highlight of the deal. He's a very, very good player, and Orlando is now officially in full Tank Mode. He'll have to play some small forward, but anytime he takes from Ellis is a plus for Milwaukee. Milwaukee's offense features a lot of fast-paced cutting for pick-and-rolls around the elbows, and Redick has been thriving in that kind of action for years in Orlando.

And he can shoot. Milwaukee needs that, badly. The Bucks are shooting 34.8 percent from deep, 21st in the league, and Ellis is shooting 22.8 percent on a totally irresponsible 3.5 attempts per game. That is borderline sabotage. Here is the total list of players in league history to attempt more than three 3-pointers per game in a season while hitting fewer than 25 percent of them.

Simmons (3:39 p.m.): There's a good chance that he decided to spend the season trolling the advanced-metrics community with his shot selection. Don't rule this out. Maybe he's trying to drive Kirk Goldsberry to hardcore drug use.

Lowe (3:40 p.m.): It may be that Ellis, as good as he can look on majestic highlight layups, is just a poisonous player. He does some things well — driving, slashing, and finding teammates for productive looks at the rim. But he does more Bad Monta things — taking long jumpers, basically — than Good Monta things on offense, and on defense, there is only Bad Monta. He gambles for steals, stands upright so that even "blah" opponents can blow by him off the dribble, he's undersized, and he's an inattentive help defender.

Basically: I'm beginning to believe a team would be better off just not playing Monta, unless he's going to shoot 50-plus percent, which last happened in 2007-08. Shifting some of his minutes to Redick will help by itself, and Jim Boylan should be able to fit Redick in the small forward rotation, alongside Luc Richard Mbah a Moute (all defense, no spacing) and Mike Dunleavy Jr. (all spacing/passing, no defense).

Simmons (3:44 p.m.): I'm suddenly terrified of Bad Monta sharing Boston's backcourt next season with Basic Cable Rondo. You're looking at Monta's career the wrong way, though — the way I see it, we're just inching closer and closer to Monta reaching his ultimate destiny as an Irrational Confidence Bench Scorer on a contender, like a cross between Vernon Maxwell Circa 1994, Jason Terry Circa 2011 and even Eddie House Circa 2008. Maybe that's what he was always meant to be.

Lowe: (3:46 p.m.): Last point on the Redick deal: It's basically a wash financially for the Bucks in terms of cap room this summer, and it gives them the option of just letting Ellis go — assuming he opts out — and re-signing Redick to replace him. But Redick wants to win. Is this the right place for him to do that?

Simmons (3:47 p.m.): If "win" means "winning slightly more games than you're losing," then yes, it's the right place for him to do that. If you're talking about winning multiple playoff series, then no. I'd say that he's more focused on the second point. I was hoping he'd land in Indiana; he could have made a nice splash for the Pacers (they needed another shooter, as you know). If the Bucks land the no. 7 seed, could they bother Indiana or New York in the first round with Jennings, Redick, Ilyasova, SANDERS! and Mbah a Moute or Dunleavy at crunch time? I mean … maybe? But I think that's where it ends.

Lowe (3:50 p.m.): As for Orlando: It seems they couldn't get a first-round pick, so this return is fine. That's the story of the trade deadline: Only one first-round pick changed hands after January 1 — the pick Memphis sent to Cleveland in their pre-Rudy trade. About four or five future first-rounders changed hands on average in the last few trade deadlines.

Simmons (3:52 p.m.): So either the new tax rules (and the shrinking cap) changed the trade landscape going forward, or it's a massive aberration that means nothing. Hmmmmmm. Last Bucks thought: Why not deal Monta Ellis as the second part of that Redick move?

Lowe (3:53 p.m.): Perhaps they couldn't find a taker for Monta, though it's unclear if he was in the offer to Atlanta for Smith
(apparently not). The Bucks have the talent to bother anyone, but they're still a step below the East's second-tier teams. "Why didn't Indiana trade a late first-round pick for Redick?" will be a popular question in the wake of this deadline. Ditto for "Where the heck was Utah?" Teams were very cautious with first-rounders, even late ones that typically produce very little. This is a question for tomorrow, though. But a bunch of teams choose "do nothing" over all other options, and that includes the Hawks with Smith. They had offers on the table and chose none of them.
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Post#2 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:20 pm by LUKE23

Yuck.
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Post#3 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:22 pm by europa

LUKE23 wrote:Yuck.


Yeah that doesn't strike me as a convincing argument about this being a great deal for the Bucks. It locks them into the 8th seed. Congrats. I'm sure the Heat are quivering.

I did like Lowe's comments about the optimism surrounding Harris, though.
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Post#4 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:24 pm by humanrefutation

The title of this thread seems to misrepresent the whole discussion.
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Post#5 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:24 pm by LUKE23

That's my biggest issue. We're still unquestionable first round fodder. Keep Harris. Sign Redick in the offseason if you really want him. Landing him now doesn't change anything about this season. It was a horrible trade, period.
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Post#6 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:25 pm by Baddy Chuck

Simmons (3:47 p.m.): If "win" means "winning slightly more games than you're losing," then yes, it's the right place for him to do that.

Basically sums up the article.
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Post#7 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:26 pm by europa

LUKE23 wrote:That's my biggest issue. We're still unquestionable first round fodder. Keep Harris. Sign Redick in the offseason if you really want him. Landing him now doesn't change anything about this season. It was a horrible trade, period.


I keep looking at how Dallas got Anthony Morrow for basically a used piece of chewing gum. Why on Earth would the Bucks pay the going rate for Redick given that? And again, I like Redick. I just think it's stupid that every team around the league that wanted him was balking at the Magic's asking price. Except for one team. Which, as always, was our Milwaukee Bucks.
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Post#8 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:27 pm by JayMKE

Good analysis on Monta.
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Post#9 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:30 pm by EzeDoesIt

Redick really is a good player. I like his game a lot and he has developed significantly over the years. The value was totally fair and, if anything, we got a steal here.

And yet, why give up Harris/ Lamb when we're just gonna lose Redick this off-season? More importantly, WHY THE **** DO WE STILL HAVE MONTA ELLIS???
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Post#10 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:32 pm by EzeDoesIt

JayMKE wrote:Good analysis on Monta.


No it wasn't. Maybe they're just trying to be "politically correct" (basketball-wise), but they're a little (and by that I mean a LOT) late to the party if they're just now realizing that Ellis is nothing but a significant detriment to his team.
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Post#11 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 pm by bigdog34

Is Redick "Very good" enough for Boylan to make Monta our 6th man? Start Jennings, Redick, Dunleavy, Ers, Sanders. Have Smith, Monta, Luc, Henson, Dalembert off the bench.
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Post#12 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 pm by MikeIsGood

Redick is a good player. That doesn't change the fact that this trade sucks.

I just take solace in not being completely done with the franchise. We **** up, but not that bad.
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Post#13 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 pm by MikeIsGood

There is 0.0% chance Swag 2 doesn't start.
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Post#14 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:37 pm by blazza18

Solidifying the 8th seed.

#whereamazinghappens.
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Post#15 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:37 pm by WEFFPIM

You can be a good player and still not make sense for a particular team. In this case, it's less about him and more about what is still here.
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Post#16 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:37 pm by ReasonablySober

I don't get how some of you can't look at this in a vacuum for what the rest of the entire country sees: as a nice win for Milwaukee. They got a "very, very good player" without having to move a first round pick.

Would they be a 9th/8th seed team without the move? Sure. Are they still a team with a 7th seed ceiling? Yup.

But I don't give a **** about this season. What I'm interested in is adding out solution at SG going forward. If moving Harris for the chance at that is the price I'm totally fine with it. He was a late teens pick that showed nothing here. Draft his another Tobias Harris with our #14 this summer. Whatever.

If he leaves, then I'll be disappointed. I won't lose my mind, though, because all we're out is Tobias Harris.

But to the original point, you can be pissed we didn't move Ellis. I am. I'm also upset we could be seeing Baddy return. But it's possible to be pleased the Bucks actually made a smart trade while at the same time being upset elsewhere.
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Post#17 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:40 pm by LUKE23

The problem I have with that argument is that I don't believe Redick landing here before FA has any bearing on where he signs. He'll go where the money is. We could have kept Harris and signed him. Make no mistake about it, this was NOT a long-term move, it was a move to solidify playoff position. Hell, Redick is 29 before he signs his next deal anyway. It's not like he's an up and coming long-term solution.

This trade blows ass.
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Post#18 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:42 pm by MoneyInDaBank07

I can see why teams like SA and IND wanted him, he'd be a great compliment to all-stars/superstars. Playing off the ball waiting for penetration or waiting for a kick out from a Tim Duncan type player. Instead, he's here with a bunch of role players pretending to be the all-stars/superstars. A good player, just a bad fit at the wrong time. Teams won't collapse on Jennings/Ellis/etc. penetration because every team knows that they can't finish. J.J. and Duns won't get open off of that. Good luck taking contested 3's all night long.

Sidenote: Does J.J. possess the ability to create his own shot?? at all??
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Post#19 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:43 pm by humanrefutation

DrugBust wrote:I don't get how some of you can't look at this in a vacuum for what the rest of the entire country sees: as a nice win for Milwaukee. They got a "very, very good player" without having to move a first round pick.


A. There may be a consensus that this is a win for Milwaukee, but I have yet to read anyone who is singing our praises. It's basically at best - Redick is a nice player, but this won't make Milwaukee a contender and at worst - meh, I don't get why the Bucks made this move.

B. The rest of the country isn't as privy to the problems of this team as we are.
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Post#20 Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a &qu
Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:43 pm by MikeIsGood

LUKE23 wrote:The problem I have with that argument is that I don't believe Redick landing here before FA has any bearing on where he signs. He'll go where the money is. We could have kept Harris and signed him. Make no mistake about it, this was NOT a long-term move, it was a move to solidify playoff position. Hell, Redick is 29 before he signs his next deal anyway. It's not like he's an up and coming long-term solution.

This trade blows ass.


And that, despite being a good player, he's not exactly an ideal SG candidate long-term. Like you said, he's 29. He's also just "good," and he's he's hit his ceiling.
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