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Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good player"

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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#201 » by Newz » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:31 am

While I love me some Tobes I don't really see this as a terrible deal so long as:

1. We let Monta go in the offseason.
2. We retain Redick AND the deal that we get him on is reasonable.

I actually really like Redick as a player. I think he's in the same mold as Ersan and Moute... he's a 'elite' role player. I think those three plus Sanders and Henson is pretty good going forward. Redick is the type of guy that I think can play well into his mid-late thirties because he should still be able to put the ball in the basket at a pretty high clip. He's an asset and a valuable player so long as his deal we bring him back at isn't ridiculous.

PG: ?
SG: Redick
SF: Moute
PF - Ersan - Henson
C - Sanders

I think those guys all fit together pretty well. It'd be nice to see Jennings break out or for us to just get a flat out better player at the PG spot. But if we let Ellis go and don't bring in any more ridiculously bad players like him or Gooden... I could see our team being a lot of fun to watch and possibly a team that wins 50+ if we add a couple of decent pieces to that puzzle.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#202 » by humanrefutation » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:31 am

sneakerdust wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
sneakerdust wrote:
And Scalabrine drives to the basket and is rejected, goes down like a sack of potatoes, Pitino on the sideline laughing his ass off olive oil flying off his head onto the floor and oooh down goes Jennings like a bucket full of Roscoe's the ball goes flying toward the sidelines and Ayon dives across the border into the expensive seats where our honored guests from the INS are tonight.


Equal opportunity racism is still racism, FYI.


Explain how any of the above has to do with skin pigmentation and the illogical argument that that skin pigmentation affects behavior or intelligence in anyway and originates only from what latitude ones ancestors lived at for a number of generations.

It doesnt. its poking fun at our idiosyncrasies that form as a common group (as well as individuals). Sometimes it is done with a mean spirit to hurt, that is true, but its no more racist than me making fun of my wife and her family for having the "fart" gene when they stink it up.

Damn trade deadline f***** me up. :D


No offense, but I'm not really in the mood to delve into the psychological and social construct surrounding racism on this board at this time. Simply stated, your perspective is valid in a vacuum, but devoid of social and historical context. And, I can personally guarantee that a lot of people would find that Ayon comment offensive, and I'm one of them.

But simply stated, I'm going to leave it there. I don't doubt the purity of your intent, but I think the impact matters just as much as the intent.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#203 » by sneakerdust » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:34 am

raferfenix wrote:Redick is now the best guard on the roster, regardless of whether he starts or not.

Anyone disagree?

Either way, the jury will be out on this trade until the offseason at least.

If we resign Redick, and because of it, bail on Jennings or Monta or (gasp!) both of the swag twins because we want to commit to JJ, then this is a coup for us long-suffering fans.

And if Tobias Harris becomes Glenn Robinson, absolutely we could look back on it as a bad trade.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time the Bucks misjudged a prospect. But then again, it also wouldn't be the first time that -- for want of anything else to hope for -- we overrated a young player with potential on this board.


I'm a sucka I still think Jennings still has hope + infinitely more talent than Redick so I'll still take Jennings.
He's not a leader though he needs a good environment /mentor and I dont mean DaTrillStak5 or whatever.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#204 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:35 am

CanadaBucks wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:You know, I'm reading these arguments and I can't believe we're really arguing about the following:

1. Tobias has shown potential, is only 20 years old. Could he turn into a bust? Absolutely. But he's also shown some offensive ability, especially in the block, and is only in his second year.

2. JJ Redick is not going to win us a title.

3. We could have signed JJ Redick in the offseason. This trade gives us no real advantage in that department.

4. We still are stuck with Monta Ellis and did not sell on our other expendable asset, the expiring contract of Sam Dalembert.

Is there anything on that list that is debatable?


1. Possible
2. No one argued he would
3. Yes but it wouldn't have helped us this season and the owner want s to win agree or not.
4. What offers do you think we got? Dalembert might have got us a 2nd. For a team that's trying to win and make the playoffs is that worth it? You may not agree with their path but that's what their goal is. Without knowing what we could have got for Ellis it's hard to say.
4. Whoops, I already did 4
5. I wonder what the wife's making me for lunch, seriously could eat the crutch out of a low flying duck
6. Eighth seeds aren't given out in the offseason, get a grip guys
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#205 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:36 am

humanrefutation wrote:You know, I'm reading these arguments and I can't believe we're really arguing about the following:

1. Tobias has shown potential, is only 20 years old. Could he turn into a bust? Absolutely. But he's also shown some offensive ability, especially in the block, and is only in his second year.

2. JJ Redick is not going to win us a title.

3. We could have signed JJ Redick in the offseason. This trade gives us no real advantage in that department.

4. We still are stuck with Monta Ellis and did not sell on our other expendable asset, the expiring contract of Sam Dalembert.

Is there anything on that list that is debatable?


1. sure
2. so what? i like good basketball and i gotta watch this sht. 2nd round potential right now is good enough for me.
3. wrong. just like with salmons we need the hometown advantage if the money is all the same. relationships matter ALOT in milwaukee when it comes to stuff like this and redick seems like the kind of guy it would especially apply to. i acknowledge the very real possibility he walks but its much more realistic he plays for us next year if he finishes the year with us now.
4. good point on ellis :x as far as sammy goes see #2 :-?
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#206 » by ampd » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:36 am

Newz wrote:PG: ?
SG: Redick
SF: Moute
PF - Ersan - Henson
C - Sanders


There is no chance we are letting Jennings walk. We tried to extend Monta. Jennings could probably take a dump at mid court and we'd still pay him 10 million dollars
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#207 » by MikeIsGood » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:37 am

Newz wrote:While I love me some Tobes I don't really see this as a terrible deal so long as:

1. We let Monta go in the offseason.
2. We retain Redick AND the deal that we get him on is reasonable.


If we can honestly get him on a reasonable deal, I still think the trade is stupid but I would be less irate. I just don't foresee that happening. We'll see.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#208 » by LUKE23 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:38 am

Yep. I hope people like Jennings/Redick (both overpaid) as our starting backcourt. I still want Jennings gone, but it isn't happening.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#209 » by Max Green » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:38 am

europa wrote:
Max Green wrote:Guys supported and defended Hammond until he traded their favorite player(s).


I was critical of Hammond long before he traded Bogut, who was my favorite player on the team at the time. I don't want to speak for Paul but I know he was too. So your statement doesn't really mesh with the facts with some of us at least.


You were critical of Hammond here and there (As was everyone else even his most loyal supporters), but you still supported and defended him up until last years trade deadline. But the tone of your posts as well as some others have completely changed since the Bogut trade. You & Paul were "and Livingston" guys before the trade, now you're GrendonJennings impressionists.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#210 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:38 am

GHOSTofSIKMA wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:You know, I'm reading these arguments and I can't believe we're really arguing about the following:

1. Tobias has shown potential, is only 20 years old. Could he turn into a bust? Absolutely. But he's also shown some offensive ability, especially in the block, and is only in his second year.

2. JJ Redick is not going to win us a title.

3. We could have signed JJ Redick in the offseason. This trade gives us no real advantage in that department.

4. We still are stuck with Monta Ellis and did not sell on our other expendable asset, the expiring contract of Sam Dalembert.

Is there anything on that list that is debatable?


1. sure
2. so what? i like good basketball and i gotta watch this sht. 2nd round potential right now is good enough for me.
3. wrong. just like with salmons we need the hometown advantage if the money is all the same. relationships matter ALOT in milwaukee when it comes to stuff like this and redick seems like the kind of guy it would especially apply to. i acknowledge the very real possibility he walks but its much more realistic he plays for us next year if he finishes the year with us now.
4. good point on ellis :x as far as sammy goes see #2 :-?


Have you got the phaser set to 'flop' on Monta at the moment? I thought it was flips week, I miss flip, flip's cool.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#211 » by europa » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:39 am

ampd wrote:
There is no chance we are letting Jennings walk. We tried to extend Monta. Jennings could probably take a dump at mid court and we'd still pay him 10 million dollars


He's topped 30 points in the last two games. He's a Buck for life now.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#212 » by MikeIsGood » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:39 am

paul wrote:4. Whoops, I already did 4
5. I wonder what the wife's making me for lunch, seriously could eat the crutch out of a low flying duck
6. Eighth seeds aren't given out in the offseason, get a grip guys
[/quote]

This board is about to get incredibly fun (as if today wasn't good enough). Should we include fun as part of the deal?

Lamb + Tobes + Udrih out
Redick + Ish + Ayon + RGM board fun in
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#213 » by CanadaBucks » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:39 am

paul wrote:
CanadaBucks wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:You know, I'm reading these arguments and I can't believe we're really arguing about the following:

1. Tobias has shown potential, is only 20 years old. Could he turn into a bust? Absolutely. But he's also shown some offensive ability, especially in the block, and is only in his second year.

2. JJ Redick is not going to win us a title.

3. We could have signed JJ Redick in the offseason. This trade gives us no real advantage in that department.

4. We still are stuck with Monta Ellis and did not sell on our other expendable asset, the expiring contract of Sam Dalembert.

Is there anything on that list that is debatable?


1. Possible
2. No one argued he would
3. Yes but it wouldn't have helped us this season and the owner want s to win agree or not.
4. What offers do you think we got? Dalembert might have got us a 2nd. For a team that's trying to win and make the playoffs is that worth it? You may not agree with their path but that's what their goal is. Without knowing what we could have got for Ellis it's hard to say.
4. Whoops, I already did 4
5. I wonder what the wife's making me for lunch, seriously could eat the crutch out of a low flying duck
6. Eighth seeds aren't given out in the offseason, get a grip guys


That's hilarious
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#214 » by Newz » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 am

MikeIsGood wrote:
Newz wrote:While I love me some Tobes I don't really see this as a terrible deal so long as:

1. We let Monta go in the offseason.
2. We retain Redick AND the deal that we get him on is reasonable.


If we can honestly get him on a reasonable deal, I still think the trade is stupid but I would be less irate. I just don't foresee that happening. We'll see.


I think Redick on a reasonable deal is always going to be a more valuable player than Tobes. Redick is actually a pretty damn good ball player, IMO. That being said I think some team is going to either pay him more than he is worth and steal him away... or we will get in a bidding war and pay him way more than he is worth.

I also agree with the poster who says he wont let Jennings go. I also think we will end up keeping him for more than he is worth.

I am pretty much predicting the Bucks to do whatever the stupidest thing possible is. I'd say that's a pretty good bet. ;)

Overall I'm just saying I like JJ Redick as a player and I don't think we really gave up all that much for him. Tobes is a decent prospect, Lamb might be another Meeks type guy.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#215 » by paul » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 am

Max Green wrote:
europa wrote:
Max Green wrote:Guys supported and defended Hammond until he traded their favorite player(s).


I was critical of Hammond long before he traded Bogut, who was my favorite player on the team at the time. I don't want to speak for Paul but I know he was too. So your statement doesn't really mesh with the facts with some of us at least.


You were critical of Hammond here and there (As was everyone else even his most loyal supporters), but you still supported and defended him up until last years trade deadline. But the tone of your posts as well as some others have completely changed since the Bogut trade. You & Paul were "and Livingston" guys before the trade, now you're GrendonJennings impressionists.


Actually I still defend some of the things he's done. Like picking Harris at 19 for example, that was a great pick....
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#216 » by El Duderino » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 am

humanrefutation wrote:
3. We could have signed JJ Redick in the offseason. This trade gives us no real advantage in that department.

4. We still are stuck with Monta Ellis and did not sell on our other expendable asset, the expiring contract of Sam Dalembert.

Is there anything on that list that is debatable?


1. On point three. I don't agree that this trade gives no advantage to resigning Redick. If he finds himself liking it here in Milwaukee, i do think it increases the chances that he'll stay so long as the contract he's offered is acceptable to him. For quite a few NBA players, they've ended up liking the city only after first having to play here vs the negative opinion they had before being here.

Granted though, some certainly can argue as to whether resigning Redick would be a good thing for the Bucks.

2. As for Ellis and Dalambert, i have serious doubts as to whether Ellis had any positive value around the league given his overall crappy play. Why exactly should any team have valued Monta?

Now maybe Dalambert had some minor value as a rental, but if Josh Smith couldn't even bring Atlanta much of anything good as a rental, why should Dalambert have?
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#217 » by whatthe_buck!? » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 am

DrugBust wrote:If the Bucks drafted Trey Burke and let Jennings walk would that make this deal better all of the sudden? Give Redick $8 million a year for four years or whatever. Let everyone else walk and sign none cap killing vets to fill out the roster. The Bucks are still as flexible as ever, not great but not bad.

I feel like I have to add this to every post, but I'm looking for rational discussion.

I'll engage this discussion just cuz what's done is done, even though I obviously dislike the trade and would have waited to sign him in the offseason. If it has to be 4 years, 8 per is my absolute max, but I wouldn't sign him for 4. If his offers are 8 per for 4 years, I would offer him for 10 mil per season over 2 years or 9 mil per over 3. Wanna have the ability to re-deal him as a valuable expiring sooner rather than later, also it makes him less of a burden in case whatever SG we draft this year turns into a player quickly. If we have our SG of the future by the end of next season and Redicks play declines even a little (a strong possibility considering he's now on THE BUCKS lol), he's gonna be really hard to move with three years left at 8 per. At 10 mil with one season left, not so much, and if we couldn't move him anyway we wouldn't be forced to start him and give him a lot of minutes to try to up his trade value, we could just sit his ass in favor of our young SG and let him expire (or use him solely as filler in a blockbuster).
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#218 » by europa » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:40 am

Max Green wrote:
europa wrote:
Max Green wrote:Guys supported and defended Hammond until he traded their favorite player(s).


I was critical of Hammond long before he traded Bogut, who was my favorite player on the team at the time. I don't want to speak for Paul but I know he was too. So your statement doesn't really mesh with the facts with some of us at least.


You were critical of Hammond here and there (As was everyone else even his most loyal supporters), but you still supported and defended him up until last years trade deadline.


Sorry but that's incorrect. I was very critical of Hammond after Year 3. Bogut was still on the roster at the time. Your attempt to generalize my position is inaccurate. The fact is there are people here who liked Player A or B but were still critical of Hammond. The idea that people now hate Hammond because he traded Bogut (which is the player I assume you're primarily referring to with this point) simply isn't true.
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#219 » by sneakerdust » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:41 am

humanrefutation wrote:
sneakerdust wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:
No offense, but I'm not really in the mood to delve into the psychological and social construct surrounding racism on this board at this time. Simply stated, your perspective is valid in a vacuum, but devoid of social and historical context. And, I can personally guarantee that a lot of people would find that Ayon comment offensive, and I'm one of them.

But simply stated, I'm going to leave it there. I don't doubt the purity of your intent, but I think the impact matters just as much as the intent.



No problem. That argument is weak though as you just admitted these things called "racism" are not by definition but simply made up psychological and social constructs that can serve anyone's self interest.

Like giving professors who work 4 hours a weak an excuse to lay 100k + in loans on the rest of us.

Humor>>>>>>>fake indignation.

We have enough hate and real problems in the world like the wrath of the swag brothers to give into that crap.

Have the last word at your leisure I promise not to respond 8-)
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Re: Simmons & Lowe weigh in. Redick a "a very, very good pla 

Post#220 » by humanrefutation » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:42 am

paul wrote:
CanadaBucks wrote:
humanrefutation wrote:You know, I'm reading these arguments and I can't believe we're really arguing about the following:

1. Tobias has shown potential, is only 20 years old. Could he turn into a bust? Absolutely. But he's also shown some offensive ability, especially in the block, and is only in his second year.

2. JJ Redick is not going to win us a title.

3. We could have signed JJ Redick in the offseason. This trade gives us no real advantage in that department.

4. We still are stuck with Monta Ellis and did not sell on our other expendable asset, the expiring contract of Sam Dalembert.

Is there anything on that list that is debatable?


1. Possible
2. No one argued he would
3. Yes but it wouldn't have helped us this season and the owner want s to win agree or not.
4. What offers do you think we got? Dalembert might have got us a 2nd. For a team that's trying to win and make the playoffs is that worth it? You may not agree with their path but that's what their goal is. Without knowing what we could have got for Ellis it's hard to say.
4. Whoops, I already did 4
5. I wonder what the wife's making me for lunch, seriously could eat the crutch out of a low flying duck
6. Eighth seeds aren't given out in the offseason, get a grip guys


:lol:

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