Homer's open letter to Herb Kohl (Mitch Rant part II)

[Nebula1]

The franchise IS an asset regardless of public perception. It's worth $300m right now and will be worth $1b eventually. Smart people and hopefully Milwaukee officials know this. The NBA knows it, Kohl knows it, etc. I don't disagree that measures have to be taken to help the public understand what an asset the franchise is and Phil Jackson is a possible solution. Probably not going to happen though. Again, if the public is too stupid to recognize it, then they don't deserve to keep it.

Once a Senator, always a Senator. He won't lose the designation upon retirement. He's basically a retired Crip.

[AussieBuck]

Name and shame time, I remember the thread very well. Admit that you passionately wanted to trade Ersan for Troy Murphy and I'll admit being totally against trading Ramon for Conley. I still think that I come out way ahead of the Morphy guys there.

[Nebula1]

I wanted to keep Ramon and never wanted Murphy. I still think Ramon would have helped plenty since he's so good at initiating offense for others.. something our other guards do not do well.

[europa]

I wanted to keep Ramon and never wanted Murphy. I still think Ramon would have helped plenty since he's so good at initiating offense for others.. something our other guards do not do well.

I loved Ramon but I was in favor of the trade. It hurts even more now because trading for Conley then would've meant no Jennings. If I recall correctly, the forum was pretty split on whether the Bucks should make that Conley trade.

[Nebula1]

I wanted to keep Ramon and never wanted Murphy. I still think Ramon would have helped plenty since he's so good at initiating offense for others.. something our other guards do not do well.

I loved Ramon but I was in favor of the trade. It hurts even more now because trading for Conley then would've meant no Jennings. If I recall correctly, the forum was pretty split on whether the Bucks should make that Conley trade.

That was a dark period for me and still wanted Sessions over Jennings, but also over Conley, who has turned into a great leader and nice player. I was really disappointed about letting a guy go who clearly helped others on the team be successful so that's when I started to hate Skiles.

I think the Sessions stuff will reflect interestingly against Tobias Harris down the line.

[stevescheffler06]

Billboard idea: "If you're not going to do it right, let them try it in Seattle. Go Bucks."

Worst case scenario for me is for the Bucks to move to Seattle, even as desperate as I am for Seattle to have a team again. But in all reality the Bucks are THE next target. If you do the same thing again that you've been doing for 25 years the team WILL leave and nobody will care.

[paulpressey25]

Dear Homer and Thunder,

If in the last 24-hours the Bucks front office hasn't gotten to you yet and you do another segment on this today, please talk a bit about Herb Kohl's inner circle that helps him run the team.

Yesterday you suggested that Kohl needs a business advisor to help keep him out of trouble. That's the problem, he has too many advisors within the organization and they all hold too much power. We call this crew the Kohl "Cronies". Many have been with Kohl and the organization for decades. They are allowed to interfere with both the coach and GM, and even though none of them are trained basketball minds, Kohl takes their input on roster decisions.

Let's identify them here:

Ron Walter - Executive Vice President. Former Lawyer who has been known to "scout players" and offer input on trades. He was scouting Mike Conley, Jr. during a workout at the Cousins center before the 2007 NBA draft and remarked that the Bucks should consider drafting him since he was so good with his left hand. It never occurred to him that Conley is left-handed.

Some insiders report he will occasionally negotiate with teams and agents directly, without bringing in the General Manager on what he is up to. He did this Larry Harris many times. Many GM's around the league over the past 20-years have been reluctant to deal with the Bucks because they at times get calls from Kohl, Walter and whoever the Bucks GM is at the time. Other teams don't know who is in charge and who they should be negotiating with.

John Steinmiller - Executive Vice President. A good man, loyal to Milwaukee and the team. But also known to have input on player personnel matters. Some consider him to be providing Kohl with encouragement to always have a competitive "8th seed" caliber team.

Mike Burr - CFO. Another good man, but also known to wield significant power as it relates to player contract decisions. Reported to sometimes get Kohl "scared" about money owed to trade targets in years past causing beneficial prospective deals such as Zach Randolph, Shawn Marion and Carlos Boozer to be nixed.

Dave Babcock - Director of player personnel. He has been with the organization a long time and John Hammond was not allowed to replace him when Hammond became GM in 2008. Kohl likes him and trusts his input. Unfortunately though the existence of Babcock complicates things for any GM, as Kohl has another voice he always asks for input as it relates to day to day scouting.

Ask any former coach or GM of the Milwaukee Bucks and they will tell you that there is no defined organizational reporting system. All the Cronies at times wield more influence and power over the team than the GM or Coach.

Kohl either has to sell the team or hire a Phil Jackson type to run everything and clean this whole group out. The cronies enable Kohl and cause significant dysfunction.

[InsideOut]

The franchise IS an asset regardless of public perception. It's worth $300m right now and will be worth $1b eventually. Smart people and hopefully Milwaukee officials know this. The NBA knows it, Kohl knows it, etc. I don't disagree that measures have to be taken to help the public understand what an asset the franchise is and Phil Jackson is a possible solution. Probably not going to happen though. Again, if the public is too stupid to recognize it, then they don't deserve to keep it.

Once a Senator, always a Senator. He won't lose the designation upon retirement. He's basically a retired Crip.

How would you explain to the people that could care less about basketball and think the Bucks are a joke that the franchise is an asset? They don't care about basketball and the team has been bad for like forever and now they are being asked to pay a tax to build the team a new arena. If they are paying money for something they could care less about they may see that as a liability and not an asset. An asset to one person might be a liabilty to another. Think owning a car in New York city. You might think a person would be stupid for turning down a free used car and that person might think you would be stupid to taking it. It all depends on each person's situation.

[KeyRabbit]

And they keep referencing this board which is nice also.

There have been many overview/summary-type posts that do a pretty good job of laying out factual information about the series of mis-steps that have occurred, as well as pointing out the inconsistencies in the coaching/FO justifications. To the extent they haven't been touched on in these broadcasts it would probably be a good idea for someone to email them to these guys. Not the obvious agenda or subjective rant ones--I'm thinking of the mostly fact-based posts that provide insight into this team's failure to maximize asset value, choose shortsighted alternatives, etc.

These are important because it's clear that the average fans don't get worked up enough over any specific thing. Too little attention or care for the team for any single event to provoke a reaction. They need to see the persistent, consistent intentional mediocrity that is being sold to them.

[Max Green]

Dear Homer and Thunder,

If in the last 24-hours the Bucks front office hasn't gotten to you yet and you do another segment on this today, please talk a bit about Herb Kohl's inner circle that helps him run the team.

Yesterday you suggested that Kohl needs a business advisor to help keep him out of trouble. That's the problem, he has too many advisors within the organization and they all hold too much power. We call this crew the Kohl "Cronies". Many have been with Kohl and the organization for decades. They are allowed to interfere with both the coach and GM, and even though none of them are trained basketball minds, Kohl takes their input on roster decisions.

Let's identify them here:

Ron Walter - Executive Vice President. Former Lawyer who has been known to "scout players" and offer input on trades. He was scouting Mike Conley, Jr. during a workout at the Cousins center before the 2007 NBA draft and remarked that the Bucks should consider drafting him since he was so good with his left hand. It never occurred to him that Conley is left-handed.

Some insiders report he will occasionally negotiate with teams and agents directly, without bringing in the General Manager on what he is up to. He did this Larry Harris many times. Many GM's around the league over the past 20-years have been reluctant to deal with the Bucks because they at times get calls from Kohl, Walter and whoever the Bucks GM is at the time. Other teams don't know who is in charge and who they should be negotiating with.

John Steinmiller - Executive Vice President. A good man, loyal to Milwaukee and the team. But also known to have input on player personnel matters. Some consider him to be providing Kohl with encouragement to always have a competitive "8th seed" caliber team.

Mike Burr - CFO. Another good man, but also known to wield significant power as it relates to player contract decisions. Reported to sometimes get Kohl "scared" about money owed to trade targets in years past causing beneficial prospective deals such as Zach Randolph, Shawn Marion and Carlos Boozer to be nixed.

Dave Babcock - Director of player personnel. He has been with the organization a long time and John Hammond was not allowed to replace him when Hammond became GM in 2008. Kohl likes him and trusts his input. Unfortunately though the existence of Babcock complicates things for any GM, as Kohl has another voice he always asks for input as it relates to day to day scouting.

Ask any former coach or GM of the Milwaukee Bucks and they will tell you that there is no defined organizational reporting system. All the Cronies at times wield more influence and power over the team than the GM or Coach.

Kohl either has to sell the team or hire a Phil Jackson type to run everything and clean this whole group out. The cronies enable Kohl and cause significant dysfunction.

This probably deserves it's own thread and to be sticked and locked for at least the rest of today.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

We don't make any of those trades yet we go out and trade for SJAX.

Gee whiz.

The funny thing is the Hammonds fans arguing that we got Jax and Monta because of Kohl's interference. Like he'd be leading the charge to get a strip club shooter and a sexual harasser on his team.

i still support those moves. its the ones we didnt make before that i have the issue with. players like that are gonna bomb sometimes obviously but thats also the chance we should have been making all along. to say we went after those 2 but bailed didnt on boozer and randolph is nuts. maybe those 2 guys are the guys that hammond used to convince kohl we needed to start taking some chances.

[Nebula1]

How would you explain to the people that could care less about basketball and think the Bucks are a joke that the franchise is an asset? They don't care about basketball and the team has been bad for like forever and now they are being asked to pay a tax to build the team a new arena. If they are paying money for something they could care less about they may see that as a liability and not an asset. An asset to one person might be a liabilty to another. Think owning a car in New York city. You might think a person would be stupid for turning down a free used car and that person might think you would be stupid to taking it. It all depends on each person's situation.

That's not correct. Asset valuation is not based on personal perception or use.

A car, for example, is a poor investment as it is a depreciating asset. An NBA franchise, in the modern CBA environment, is an appreciating asset and the appreciation is protected by profit-sharing, salary caps, etc. Totally different investments.

It's the public fault they can't understand basic concepts like that. They see a team that's losing and has been losing and equate poor value. That's just stupid.

What the team and city has to do is show how the asset contributes to other revenue streams. It should be part of a bigger city plan and really Milwaukee should build something wonderful and advanced. Milwaukee has an opportunity here to be creative and be a leader. Yes it's hard to be a leader and it takes courage, but that's what it takes. Milwaukee has that opportunity.

The Bucks are one of the oldest franchises in the NBA and have a long history and a championship. Both the precious Packers and Brewers were equally bad for a decade+ before getting public support which helped both franchises become relevant again. The Bucks can do the same.

A diamond covered in dirt and sitting in a faulty ring is still a diamond.

[emunney]

Trying to listen to this... is the right 'hour 1' the one that starts with this insufferable bitching about Al Harris retiring as a Packer?

[trwi7]

i still support those moves.

Not stun.

[Nebula1]

Think about it like this: the Milwaukee Bucks are like the smallest house in a gated community (the NBA) with a **** up home owners association (Stern). Yes the house is dated and going iside is like visiting your grandma's, but it's still a house in one of the very best neighborhoods.

The question is, do you strip the house, sell the property to our Chicago/Minnesota neighbors and build on the empty lot in Seattle or do you spend some money completely rebuilding or at least upgrading the house? Maybe get a flat screen tv and wi-fi instead of the old box tv and phone attached to the wall. Maybe take the plastic off the furniture and open some windows.


Now just because people don't like visiting grandma doesn't detract from the property value, especially in this neighborhood that has a waiting list to get in.

[trwi7]

Trying to listen to this... is the right 'hour 1' the one that starts with this insufferable bitching about Al Harris retiring as a Packer?

Starts at 23 minutes of the first hour.

[emunney]

Thanks. This is unlistenable.

[LittleRooster]

Dear Homer and Thunder,

If in the last 24-hours the Bucks front office hasn't gotten to you yet and you do another segment on this today, please talk a bit about Herb Kohl's inner circle that helps him run the team.

Yesterday you suggested that Kohl needs a business advisor to help keep him out of trouble. That's the problem, he has too many advisors within the organization and they all hold too much power. We call this crew the Kohl "Cronies". Many have been with Kohl and the organization for decades. They are allowed to interfere with both the coach and GM, and even though none of them are trained basketball minds, Kohl takes their input on roster decisions.

Let's identify them here:

Ron Walter - Executive Vice President. Former Lawyer who has been known to "scout players" and offer input on trades. He was scouting Mike Conley, Jr. during a workout at the Cousins center before the 2007 NBA draft and remarked that the Bucks should consider drafting him since he was so good with his left hand. It never occurred to him that Conley is left-handed.

Some insiders report he will occasionally negotiate with teams and agents directly, without bringing in the General Manager on what he is up to. He did this Larry Harris many times. Many GM's around the league over the past 20-years have been reluctant to deal with the Bucks because they at times get calls from Kohl, Walter and whoever the Bucks GM is at the time. Other teams don't know who is in charge and who they should be negotiating with.

John Steinmiller - Executive Vice President. A good man, loyal to Milwaukee and the team. But also known to have input on player personnel matters. Some consider him to be providing Kohl with encouragement to always have a competitive "8th seed" caliber team.

Mike Burr - CFO. Another good man, but also known to wield significant power as it relates to player contract decisions. Reported to sometimes get Kohl "scared" about money owed to trade targets in years past causing beneficial prospective deals such as Zach Randolph, Shawn Marion and Carlos Boozer to be nixed.

Dave Babcock - Director of player personnel. He has been with the organization a long time and John Hammond was not allowed to replace him when Hammond became GM in 2008. Kohl likes him and trusts his input. Unfortunately though the existence of Babcock complicates things for any GM, as Kohl has another voice he always asks for input as it relates to day to day scouting.

Ask any former coach or GM of the Milwaukee Bucks and they will tell you that there is no defined organizational reporting system. All the Cronies at times wield more influence and power over the team than the GM or Coach.

Kohl either has to sell the team or hire a Phil Jackson type to run everything and clean this whole group out. The cronies enable Kohl and cause significant dysfunction.

This probably deserves it's own thread and to be sticked and locked for at least the rest of today.

Agreed. We want to make sure Homer and Thunder see it

[tydett]

Nebs has the right idea here. Just because the community doesn't value the Bucks currently doesn't mean it's not an asset. People in Florida have no use for snow plows nor any conceptualization of them as useful, but that doesn't mean that snow plows are not an asset. A Wisconsin winter storm does a great job of reminding us of that. We just need some sort of winter-storm equivalent to happen to the Bucks (drafting Wiggins?!?!?!)

[paulpressey25]

Thanks. This is unlistenable.

The 23 minute mark through the end of the first hour may be the best 20 minutes if you can't hear all three hours. Towards the end of hour one, Homer tells Herb Kohl that:

a) He doesn't know how to run an NBA team and we have 25-years of history to prove it.

b) Small market excuses don't cut it, since people in Milwaukee would love having a consistent 50-win team like the Pacers, who don't have any top five picks or superstars on their roster.

c) The Brewers, Packers and UW football and basketball all at one time were considered lost causes and all three had massive turnarounds with new ownership and management.

d) Kohl's legacy right now is in danger of being forever tarnished if he keeps running the team into the ground and it ultimately moves. He needs to sell now to a local buyer and start the transition like the Selig's did with the Brewers. Kohl's then would cement his legacy to Milwaukee.