MJS Story on Lasry/Edens/New Arena (Stein update on pg 10)

[Fort Minor]

And I can say without hesitation that the people in SE Wisconsin are by far the least racist out of the bunch. To say "the level of racism in Wisconsin has an impact on the perception of the Bucks" is beyond ridiculous.

Agree to disagree.

[mchase27]

Come the F on. I've never lived in Milwaukee's suburbs but I doubt thats how people feel.

That is exactly how many people feel in suburban Milwaukee. Even wonder why we don't have regional mass transit or train lines connecting the region? It's because the suburbs view Milwaukee as Mogadishu. Our suburbs were built by people who fled Milwaukee decades ago.

Jesus. Exaggerate much?

As a suburbanite, I can definitely say I oppose light rail because it's incredibly stupid. I'm in Milwaukee 3-4 times a week. I've yet to be assaulted and don't expect to.

Your generalizations are really making you sound quite silly.

I think the type of people he's thinking about don't even live in Milwaukee.

[randybreuerfan]

I think this race discussion is much bigger than the arena. Milwaukee's suburbs want to generally cut Milwaukee off in the same way Polish South Siders wanted to cut black people from crossing the 16th St. Viaduct. Not much different than Kilbourntown (western downtown) trying to cut off Juneautown (eastern downtown) during the Bridge War of 1845. Milwaukee is just a divided place filled with stubborn people. Not a good combination when you have spiteful, cheap suburbs dealing with a city that is never happy with it's funding.

Come the F on. I've never lived in Milwaukee's suburbs but I doubt thats how people feel.

Not sure about racism - too broad of a concept to address in this setting - but I have lived in Milwaukee's suburbs both in and outside of MKE Co and can verify that many out-of MKE Co suburban Milwaukeeans are grateful the bus system stays almost completely within Milwaukee Co. 'Keeps poverty out.'I have a close relative who lives in Ozaukee Co and now avoids Brown Deer because of 'crime.' Some suburbanites are open about their lack of comfort with 'urban culture.' When I ask what they mean, replies are rap music, risk/threats of violence, fatherless children, gangs, people hanging out on street corners, selling drugs instead of getting honest work. Unsafe for their daughters. Etc.

There is no denying the reality of the substantial overlap between those with conservative political views and those with a negative, 'suburban isolationist' view of Milwaukee.

The only reasonable argument to convince this group is an economic one.

On top of the factors already mentioned, there are a few others to add into any economic effects calculation:
Big industries - NBA or otherwise - benefit the state through income, sales, and property taxes paid by executives.

Loss of an NBA team means WI loses the benefits of 50+ jobs with overall significantly higher-than-average salaries.

Loss of an NBA team -> decreased consumption by NBA employees and fans, decreased time/money spent in Wisconsin. Loss of arena construction jobs, loss of $200m or more in private investment into the city. ...

[midranger]

This thread has taken a turn for the anecdotally absurd.

Your "relative" is afraid of Milwaukee because of "fatherless children"? Sure...

[Ill-yasova]

Lock it up. This thread has gone way too far off the tracks.

[LUKE23]

Politics almost needs to be part of this discussion, but leave race out of it.

[midranger]

Maybe it is because I'm a math guy and that is what most of my schooling has always focused on but numbers don't lie, at some point a public investment makes sense, at $200-300M it doesn't, get some more private money, formulate an actual design/plan and then let's have this discussion like adults.

Definitely. It make no sense to a state/city to watch $400 million of private money leave town over the last $50 million. The investment would be recouped just by taxing the materials and labor to construct it.

[chuckleslove]

Maybe it is because I'm a math guy and that is what most of my schooling has always focused on but numbers don't lie, at some point a public investment makes sense, at $200-300M it doesn't, get some more private money, formulate an actual design/plan and then let's have this discussion like adults.

Definitely. It make no sense to a state/city to watch $400 million of private money leave town over the last $50 million. The investment would be recouped just by taxing the materials and labor to construct it.

Exactly what my point was though I was a little more subtle

[BUCKnation]

Why do people keep saying the arena will cost 500-700 million?

Because it likely will be in the range of $450-550M.

New MGM arena in Vegas will cost $350 million, I just don't see why something around that price point can't get done here.

Proposed Cisco Field in San Jose could cost $400-500 million, I don't see an arena in Milwaukee costing as much as a baseball stadium. The new Braves stadium will cost $500-600 million. You really think an arena in the midwest will cost that much?

That's pretty much the going rate on recent NBA arenas. I'd say $500M, for our potential new one, is on the high side though.

[MickeyDavis]

We are getting good to the point where we may have to lock it up. Nothing new is being said and no one is going to change anyone's mind.

[chuckleslove]

We are getting good to the point where we may have to lock it up. Nothing new is being said and no one is going to change anyone's mind.

Probably a true statement, all of the debate that can be had is over until we get some actual movement by the new owners and see something a bit more concrete than just our speculation and bickering

[midranger]

My biggest problem with a "the taxpayers pay the remainder" type deal, is that these project always balloon in cost and the bill gets passed to us. Also, it opens the possibility for corruption.

If the city was smart, they'd look to pass a referendum committing $100 million to the project and let the private guys figure out the rest. Then, they get to control the discussion. "The city matched the donation of the owners. What more can we do?"

[ReddWing]

I make it no small secret that I'm a big "L" Libertarian. I believe force in general is wrong and that is why I used that word. It's not like they pay their taxes to fund it and then get to go to said events free of charge, and even still most of them won't ever use out of it what they pay in to it. I've never gone to a single event at the BC other than Bucks games, I love the Bucks.

My stance on this entire issue hasn't ever changed, get as much private money as you can and if you need the public to help finish it off it needs to pass a general referendum.

At this point a lot of people say that there is no way it would pass a general vote, which to me says a lot. You literally want elected politicians to act against the will of the people they are supposed to be representing. It is the people who want to use public dollars that are responsible to put on a good sales pitch and convince the public they want it.

I think 200M is a GREAT starting point, I think there is more private money to be had be it MU, naming rights, other business leaders/investors, etc... I am not even opposed to voting to support some public money going to the arena even all the way from out here in Waukesha but I strongly oppose it if you can't get public support.

Bitching and moaning that the suburbs are somehow obligated to pay for it won't win you any support either, neither will all the claims of racism and other BS. With enough of an up front private money, an actual plan in place so we can see what the public is being asked I think there can be a good sales pitch, but we are not at that yet, once they are officially owners I expect we will start to see what their goal/plan is and how that takes shape and then we can make a decision if public financing is the right direction. At some point the amount put in vs the amount given from private makes it a good investment. I don't think that point is at 200M from Lasry/Edens/Kohl but if you can get up to 350M or so I would likely vote yes on said referendum.

So to be clear, I understand the passion some people have for this, I love the Bucks as much as anyone. But if you want to get public money there needs to be a good sales pitch and the name calling, finger pointing, etc... is only going to hurt your cause.

Let me say that I don't think we need a regional sales tax. I'm just tired of listening to the 'woe is me' cries coming form the suburbs about their minor contributions. They just had their income and property taxes cut, at the cost of many in the state. The Bucks have yet to even suggest any taxes to pay for this and people are already coming out of the woodwork. This city has been fortunate regarding it's sports complexes and yet the taxpayers act like they are constantly assaulted by government. When is the last time we had to pay for a new arena anyways? Five years after World War 2 when the Cell was built? I'm not even sure the taxpayers had to pay for that either.

[Garbs_7]

This was a really interesting and thought provoking discussion about the logistics of funding a new arena until the racism angle distracted from it and turned it into a low brow mud-slinging match.

[humanrefutation]

It would be nice if we had a new article or story about Lasry, Edens, and their arena plans. It would give us something concrete to talk about.

[chuckleslove]

Let me say that I don't think we need a regional sales tax. I'm just tired of listening to the 'woe is me' cries coming form the suburbs about their minor contributions. They just had their income and property taxes cut, at the cost of many in the state. The Bucks have yet to even suggest any taxes to pay for this and people are already coming out of the woodwork. This city has been fortunate regarding it's sports complexes and yet the taxpayers act like they are constantly assaulted by government. When is the last time we had to pay for a new arena anyways? Five years after World War 2 when the Cell was built? I'm not even sure the taxpayers had to pay for that either.

We are still one of the most heavily taxed states.

According to this article:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/per ... n/1937757/

We are the 5th highest tax burden in the country. Prior to the recent freeze on property taxes we had the 3rd highest in the country.

So sure my property taxes last year went down slightly, but they were already insanely high before that and as a state we have a fairly high income tax. We do have a lower sales tax than a lot of states but everywhere else we are pretty heavily taxed so if you want to have an honest debate you can't just point to one aspect of taxes going down or staying flat when it was already, and still is, higher than a majority of the nation and say we are somehow not over-taxed.

[midranger]

I don't think the suburbs are crying "poor" so much as they are crying "we don't care about the Bucks."

That's more about Herb Kohl alienating 2 generations of prospective Bucks fans by consistently providing a terrible and uninteresting product, than anything else.

[chuckleslove]

My biggest problem with a "the taxpayers pay the remainder" type deal, is that these project always balloon in cost and the bill gets passed to us. Also, it opens the possibility for corruption.

If the city was smart, they'd look to pass a referendum committing $100 million to the project and let the private guys figure out the rest. Then, they get to control the discussion. "The city matched the donation of the owners. What more can we do?"

I've made that same suggestion when talking among friends, whatever public money gets committed it needs to be a flat amount and if the budget balloons the owners have to pay the difference not the taxpayers.

[chuckleslove]

I don't think the suburbs are crying "poor" so much as they are crying "we don't care about the Bucks."

That's more about Herb Kohl alienating 2 generations of prospective Bucks fans by consistently providing a terrible and uninteresting product, than anything else.

Not only that but they have literally had their sales team double as a marketing department resulting in no marketing to the state as a whole.

They need their Rick Schlessinger with the Bucks and that is honestly one of the changes I'm most excited for with the new owners, I figure there is no way they aren't going to bring in an actual marketing team.

[chuckleslove]

It would be nice if we had a new article or story about Lasry, Edens, and their arena plans. It would give us something concrete to talk about.

I think once the sale becomes official this conversation will heat up quickly. They said 1 year was an optimistic but realistic goal for having a plan in place(maybe they even said breaking ground?) so they will move quickly once they are able to I would imagine.

I wonder if they have already had some behind the scenes talks and have something in motion that they aren't able to speak about yet.