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2014-2015 rotation?

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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#61 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:38 pm

He also has a body type similar to Pierce, who has aged amazing while playing consistently over 30+ mpg, and Melo, who hasn't slowed down much at all at age 30 playing big minutes. Basically my point is I think trying to make that kind of prediction is pretty tough and not fair at all. Each player is different. I do think his ideal weight is 240-245 though. Lets see what he does with his first NBA weight training though and how he enters the season.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#62 » by Newz » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:39 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:The only guys that NEED to be starting are Larry, Giannis, and Parker. You can mix and match everyone else depending on the matchups and whether or not they are earning playing time.

Part of the reason that we were so awful last year was because Drew doled out PT and starting gigs based on seniority and buried our young guys on the bench even though it was clear that they were the ones busting their asses (Wolters, Giannis, Miroslav).

Just play the guys who earn it. Simple


I will say that I think some people need to realize that Giannis may not have played as many minutes as fans would have wanted last year by design. He's young, he's growing and he's adjusting to the NBA game. They probably didn't want him playing 30+ minutes a night so that he could get used to the NBA schedule and the grind of the league.

In my opinion that's not a bad thing. My guess is we probably don't see either Giannis or Parker out there 35+ minutes a night this year either.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#63 » by Newz » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:41 pm

LUKE23 wrote:He also has a body type similar to Pierce, who has aged amazing while playing consistently over 30+ mpg, and Melo, who hasn't slowed down much at all at age 30 playing big minutes. Basically my point is I think trying to make that kind of prediction is pretty tough and not fair at all. Each player is different. I do think his ideal weight is 240-245 though. Lets see what he does with his first NBA weight training though and how he enters the season.


I'm certainly not saying his knees will be shot by the time he's 25 or anything. I just found those comparisons to be interesting. I'm not ready to say that his body type dooms him to be a guy with a short career though. Something I hadn't even thought about until I read that post.

I think it's more likely guys who base their games off of their athletic ability (Wade being a good example) are more likely to fade earlier on than guys built like Parker whose games are good because of their skill level.

One way or another... every player is different. So we'll wait and see with Jabari.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#64 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:44 pm

Agreed. Just found it odd to compare him to Redd and Deron instead of Melo and Pierce. Doesn't make sense really to me.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#65 » by Ron Swanson » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:50 pm

Newz wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:The only guys that NEED to be starting are Larry, Giannis, and Parker. You can mix and match everyone else depending on the matchups and whether or not they are earning playing time.

Part of the reason that we were so awful last year was because Drew doled out PT and starting gigs based on seniority and buried our young guys on the bench even though it was clear that they were the ones busting their asses (Wolters, Giannis, Miroslav).

Just play the guys who earn it. Simple


I will say that I think some people need to realize that Giannis may not have played as many minutes as fans would have wanted last year by design. He's young, he's growing and he's adjusting to the NBA game. They probably didn't want him playing 30+ minutes a night so that he could get used to the NBA schedule and the grind of the league.

In my opinion that's not a bad thing. My guess is we probably don't see either Giannis or Parker out there 35+ minutes a night this year either.


Yep, remember, this was a kid who, at 18 years old just a year ago, was considered to be "2-3 years away" from playing significant NBA minutes. People falsely attribute that to just his learning curve, but it's also due to the fact that he's 19 and his body is still growing. Bringing him along slowly was the plan all along.

You have to let these guys train in an NBA conditioning regiment before you just throw them out there for 35+ minutes a night. People must have forgot that Kevin Durant didn't even play 35+ minutes his rookie year, although just barely (34).
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#66 » by coolhandluke121 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:14 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:I don't think it's really important who starts. It's important to get your best players the most minutes, but it's even more important to get your best combinations of players the most minutes.

Of course, I say that with the caveat that I want to tank, so I'd be perfectly happy starting Mayo and Knight... but assuming they're trying to win and develop, I think Kidd has to have the foresight to bring one of his best players off the bench just to make sure he has the right combinations at all times. Personally, I think Giannis is the guy that works best off the bench with Ersan and one of the good shooters, be it Knight or (if he's in shape) Mayo. Marshall or Wolters would then be the facilitator in the starting lineup, with Parker as the go-to scorer and Middleton as the role-playing sf who spreads the floor for everyone. Sanders obviously is a starter, and he's a good fit covering up for the lack of pf and pg defense.

Basically I don't like Giannis and Parker together as much as most people. I'd give them both 30+ mpg though.


Giannis and Parker fit perfectly together, especially if Sanders is at C to cover for defense. That puts Parker between two good defenders, and also gives him high usage since Sanders gets essentially none besides transition, putbacks, and lobs, and Giannis is a jack of all tradaes type. Either way, Giannis isn't coming off the bench though, nor should he.


I don't think Giannis is a jack-of-all-trades type. I think he's going to command a TON of touches on offense. I also think he's going to operate pretty close to the basket in the halfcourt offense in order to exploit his unique skill set and take advantage of matchups. There's not enough room in the paint for Parker, Sanders, and Giannis. I think they would be better off staggering their minutes as much as possible. Having them together relegates at least one of them to being more of a perimeter player. As long as you've got Middleton and Ersan to stretch the floor and take advantage of the defensive attention Parker and Giannis draw close to the basket, that's all you need to complement them. I'm not saying that Giannis and Parker wouldn't play well together; I'm saying you could get more out of everyone if you stagger their minutes. They complement each other reasonably well, but they don't need each other. Let them play with players that need them. Parker/Middleton and Giannis/Ersan gets the most out of everyone.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#67 » by coolhandluke121 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:21 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Agreed. Just found it odd to compare him to Redd and Deron instead of Melo and Pierce. Doesn't make sense really to me.


I don't think Melo was ever close to 20% body fat like Redd and Deron. Pierce might have been close, but Parker looks to be in that zone already and he's only 19. And of course there are always going to be some examples of guys who have long careers despite not being real lean, but nobody can deny that carrying an extra 10-15 lbs. of fat makes it far more likely that you will have knee and ankle problems. The fact that there are exceptions in no way changes that.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#68 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:34 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:I don't think Giannis is a jack-of-all-trades type. I think he's going to command a TON of touches on offense. I also think he's going to operate pretty close to the basket in the halfcourt offense in order to exploit his unique skill set and take advantage of matchups. There's not enough room in the paint for Parker, Sanders, and Giannis. I think they would be better off staggering their minutes as much as possible. Having them together relegates at least one of them to being more of a perimeter player. As long as you've got Middleton and Ersan to stretch the floor and take advantage of the defensive attention Parker and Giannis draw close to the basket, that's all you need to complement them. I'm not saying that Giannis and Parker wouldn't play well together; I'm saying you could get more out of everyone if you stagger their minutes. They complement each other reasonably well, but they don't need each other. Let them play with players that need them. Parker/Middleton and Giannis/Ersan gets the most out of everyone.


He is a jack of all trades type. He can handle, pass, and take it to the basket/draw fouls. He needs to continue to improve his handle and his jumpshot. But I don't agree at all that he's going to operate primarily out of the post on offense. He will be operating from the wing as the #1 or #2 ball handler. Especially with how the roster is currently constructed-heavy on frontcourt players.

Basically what I'm saying is that the only guy in the starting five that is a pure post/paint guy is Sanders. Parker can operate from the wing against PF's (driving to the basket) due to his handle, or post up SF, who he will have size advantages on. Giannis' game is more suited for perimeter play right now though. You use him as a ball handler/creator. I don't see him being used heavily in post ups.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#69 » by GHOSTofSIKMA » Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:53 pm

the idea that an athlete is injury prone because their body doesn't looked jacked is crazy. it must be amazing how anybody played played sports and stayed healthy before the 90s.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#70 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:08 pm

coolhandluke121 wrote:I don't think Melo was ever close to 20% body fat like Redd and Deron. Pierce might have been close, but Parker looks to be in that zone already and he's only 19. And of course there are always going to be some examples of guys who have long careers despite not being real lean, but nobody can deny that carrying an extra 10-15 lbs. of fat makes it far more likely that you will have knee and ankle problems. The fact that there are exceptions in no way changes that.


I don't know where you pulled 20% from other than your ass. The only rumored amounts since he wasn't at the combine were 11% (at 255 pounds at the Bucks workout).

http://www.brewhoop.com/2014/6/21/58296 ... ns-workout

And yet Chad Ford reports that Parker's weight is in fact around 15-20 pounds more than the 235-241 pounds he was commonly listed at last season, reportedly tipping the scales at 254 pounds with 11% body fat during his Bucks visit.


He's certainly not 20% right now. And again, does he get one year on NBA weight training to make improvements or no?
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#71 » by driese0824 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:15 pm

theFireBlanket wrote:
driese0824 wrote:
Chuck Diesel wrote:Keep it right, keep it tight.

Marshall/Wolters
Knight/Middleton
Giannis/Middleton
Jabari/Henson
Sanders/Henson


Where is 8 million a year mayo in your equation, unless he is traded there is no way he sits on the bench and rots.He gets a fresh start with Kidd and will start with BK at starting point


All indications have been that he's probably getting dumped.


wheres that info coming fromim assuming from this board being there are so many mayo haters on it.I havnt heard anything form kidd or Hammond that mayo is going to be dumped.His name may of been thrown out there in trades but if he isn't traded and kidd can get him in tune and motivated he most definitely will be back and im assuming will be the starting 2 .When his head is on the game hes much much better than anyone we have right now even everyones precious middleton
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#72 » by driese0824 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:25 pm

Thunder Muscle wrote:There just has to be roster moves made. There is too much chance for another sour locker room if we keep some of these vets around. No one Delfino (if healthy), Ersan, Mayo, and maybe even ZaZa are content if they are getting 20 mins/night or less. Even Bayless if he actually is in the mix at some point. Something has to give.



u never know ersan could start at the 4 until parker is ready.Kidd does really like ersan
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#73 » by Aaron It Out » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:33 pm

There have been multiple reports out there that have said Mayo is being shopped. There will probably be no takers because he just came off the worst season in his career and gained a bunch of weight. Why are you so convinced that he's going to have a turnaround year? You want him starting for crying out loud.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#74 » by Newz » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:03 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
coolhandluke121 wrote:I don't think Melo was ever close to 20% body fat like Redd and Deron. Pierce might have been close, but Parker looks to be in that zone already and he's only 19. And of course there are always going to be some examples of guys who have long careers despite not being real lean, but nobody can deny that carrying an extra 10-15 lbs. of fat makes it far more likely that you will have knee and ankle problems. The fact that there are exceptions in no way changes that.


I don't know where you pulled 20% from other than your ass. The only rumored amounts since he wasn't at the combine were 11% (at 255 pounds at the Bucks workout).

http://www.brewhoop.com/2014/6/21/58296 ... ns-workout

And yet Chad Ford reports that Parker's weight is in fact around 15-20 pounds more than the 235-241 pounds he was commonly listed at last season, reportedly tipping the scales at 254 pounds with 11% body fat during his Bucks visit.


He's certainly not 20% right now. And again, does he get one year on NBA weight training to make improvements or no?


Is it even possible to be a legitimate NBA player with 20% body fat? Did Redd really ever get to 20% body fat? Was Deron ever really at 20% body fat? Because Redd never looked like he was that chunky at all. I mean he obviously wasn't in the greatest shape some years, but he was far from fat... and 20% body fat means you are overweight.

I find it hard to believe that an NBA athlete at 20% body fat could play 30+ minutes a night. That's a ton of extra weight to be carrying around... and if you play that many minutes at that high of intensity, coupled with shootarounds and things like that... you would have to eat an absolutely absurd amount of food to get to that weight.

I remember thinking Melo was a big dude and probably had some extra weight on him. I walked by him once when he was going into Club 720 downtown and that guy was thin as hell, but he just had massive shoulders and gianormous arms. No way that dude is even remotely close to 20% body fat.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#75 » by driese0824 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:12 pm

Aaron It Out wrote:There have been multiple reports out there that have said Mayo is being shopped. There will probably be no takers because he just came off the worst season in his career and gained a bunch of weight. Why are you so convinced that he's going to have a turnaround year? You want him starting for crying out loud.



if hes the best SG during training camp damn right I do.I know you all want another year of tanking so lets play middleton at the 2 then,but other posters besides myself have said that if mayo comes in motivated and he very well could with a new coach(remember he akong with a few others questioned drews Offensive game plan last year)If he slims down and likes the feel for kids O yes I could see him having a bouce back year so much so that yes I could see him starting at the sg because myself along with some others think he is the most talented SG we have on this roster
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#76 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:19 pm

To put it in perspective, Oliver Miller was 22% body fat when he entered the NBA. Only seven players in DX's database history have been tested over 19% body fat. Melo was 8.0% coming in. Tobias Harris was 8.4% coming in. Basically, there is a zero percent chance that Parker is anything close to 20% body fat right now. :)
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#77 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:19 pm

driese0824 wrote:
Aaron It Out wrote:There have been multiple reports out there that have said Mayo is being shopped. There will probably be no takers because he just came off the worst season in his career and gained a bunch of weight. Why are you so convinced that he's going to have a turnaround year? You want him starting for crying out loud.



if hes the best SG during training camp damn right I do.I know you all want another year of tanking so lets play middleton at the 2 then,but other posters besides myself have said that if mayo comes in motivated and he very well could with a new coach(remember he akong with a few others questioned drews Offensive game plan last year)If he slims down and likes the feel for kids O yes I could see him having a bouce back year so much so that yes I could see him starting at the sg because myself along with some others think he is the most talented SG we have on this roster


If we really wanted to tank, we'd simply play Mayo at the two, not our best actual option.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#78 » by LUKE23 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:28 pm

I don't know why there would be any assumption that Mayo is in shape after seeing how heavy he ended the year at. And even if he was, does he offer any more than either Middleton or Knight at SG? I don't think he does.
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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#79 » by ReasonablySober » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:37 pm

I really think Middleton should get heavy, heavy minutes at the two. His size and production stack up well to Klay Thompson, particularly when you look at their age 22 (second year) seasons.

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Re: 2014-2015 rotation? 

Post#80 » by eagle13 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:59 pm

I really like Middleton but I'd trade him to Jazz (with Delfino) for Burks. Jazz needs a SF and has many SGs having resigned Hayward and drafted Hood. Burks still offers good size at 6'6 but is more mobile. Khris might not be able to keep him with quicker SGs? Anyway Burks' TS, PER > Middleton.

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