Whose core do you like better - Bucks or T-Wolves?

[paulpressey25]

I was wondering about your takeaway from that after seeing it live, since you didn't have any response re: his 4th quarter post-game.

I thought Giannis stunk in the first half. His man was out-running him around the court when Giannis was on defense and Giannis is not a catch and shoot guy on offense.

When he played PG, different story. And frankly there were numerous times Giannis made passes, when Giannis keeping the ball and going to the hole was the best option. He's just got to be a ball dominant player when he's in there.

He's an imbalanced player at the moment. He's got these potential skills that are all-star and then deficiencies that somewhat relate to what position he happens to be playing. It is going to be up to Kidd to figure this out.

Seems though that he can get to the basket all day long if we wanted to run that for him. He'd almost be some sort of freak James Harden in a way.

[El Duderino]

I thought Giannis stunk in the first half. His man was out-running him around the court when Giannis was on defense and Giannis is not a catch and shoot guy on offense.

When he played PG, different story. And frankly there were numerous times Giannis made passes, when Giannis keeping the ball and going to the hole was the best option. He's just got to be a ball dominant player when he's in there.

He's an imbalanced player at the moment. He's got these potential skills that are all-star and then deficiencies that somewhat relate to what position he happens to be playing. It is going to be up to Kidd to figure this out.

Seems though that he can get to the basket all day long if we wanted to run that for him. He'd almost be some sort of freak James Harden in a way.

To me, the biggest factor as to whether Giannis develops to be just good instead of special is his jump shot, and not only the three pointer.

For him to become a yearly 20 plus per game scorer at some point and be special, he'll have to develop things like say a post up 8-15 foot jumper to take advantage of his great length. Be able to hit enough mid-range face up jumpers so defenders don't sag way off him. Eventually hit threes at a respectable rate.

He's already got most of the other physical and innate gifts needed to become an All-Star to special player, they just need refinement and experience. Shooting though isn't something which can always develop simply from time and taking tons of jumpers after practice/in the offseason. Plenty of NBA players who weren't good jump shooters spent tons of time in the gym taking one shot after another, but it didn't translate to actual games. At this point i have no idea if Giannis will ever shoot well enough to enter that franchise player group.

[ReasonablySober]

I thought Giannis stunk in the first half. His man was out-running him around the court when Giannis was on defense and Giannis is not a catch and shoot guy on offense.

When he played PG, different story. And frankly there were numerous times Giannis made passes, when Giannis keeping the ball and going to the hole was the best option. He's just got to be a ball dominant player when he's in there.

He's an imbalanced player at the moment. He's got these potential skills that are all-star and then deficiencies that somewhat relate to what position he happens to be playing. It is going to be up to Kidd to figure this out.

Seems though that he can get to the basket all day long if we wanted to run that for him. He'd almost be some sort of freak James Harden in a way.

To me, the biggest factor as to whether Giannis develops to be just good instead of special is his jump shot, and not only the three pointer.

For him to become a yearly 20 plus per game scorer at some point and be special, he'll have to develop things like say a post up 8-15 foot jumper to take advantage of his great length. Be able to hit enough mid-range face up jumpers so defenders don't sag way off him. Eventually hit threes at a respectable rate.

He's already got most of the other physical and innate gifts needed to become an All-Star to special player, they just need refinement and experience. Shooting though isn't something which can always develop simply from time and taking tons of jumpers after practice/in the offseason. Plenty of NBA players who weren't good jump shooters spent tons of time in the gym taking one shot after another, but it didn't translate to actual games. At this point i have no idea if Giannis will ever shoot well enough to enter that franchise player group.

Surprised you're that concerned with his shooting; that's about the least of my worries. Among players to shoot 3 3FGA per 100 possessions before their age 20 season he ranks 8th in NBA history in 3FG%. Yea, it's arbitrary and yes you mentioned his shooting from mid-range.

But Giannis is good enough to be a taller Harden: live behind the arc or attacking the hoop. He's got that kind of potential.

[BallinBucks420]

I thought Giannis stunk in the first half. His man was out-running him around the court when Giannis was on defense and Giannis is not a catch and shoot guy on offense.

When he played PG, different story. And frankly there were numerous times Giannis made passes, when Giannis keeping the ball and going to the hole was the best option. He's just got to be a ball dominant player when he's in there.

He's an imbalanced player at the moment. He's got these potential skills that are all-star and then deficiencies that somewhat relate to what position he happens to be playing. It is going to be up to Kidd to figure this out.

Seems though that he can get to the basket all day long if we wanted to run that for him. He'd almost be some sort of freak James Harden in a way.

To me, the biggest factor as to whether Giannis develops to be just good instead of special is his jump shot, and not only the three pointer.

For him to become a yearly 20 plus per game scorer at some point and be special, he'll have to develop things like say a post up 8-15 foot jumper to take advantage of his great length. Be able to hit enough mid-range face up jumpers so defenders don't sag way off him. Eventually hit threes at a respectable rate.

He's already got most of the other physical and innate gifts needed to become an All-Star to special player, they just need refinement and experience. Shooting though isn't something which can always develop simply from time and taking tons of jumpers after practice/in the offseason. Plenty of NBA players who weren't good jump shooters spent tons of time in the gym taking one shot after another, but it didn't translate to actual games. At this point i have no idea if Giannis will ever shoot well enough to enter that franchise player group.

Surprised you're that concerned with his shooting; that's about the least of my worries. Among players to shoot 3 3FGA per 100 possessions before their age 20 season he ranks 8th in NBA history in 3FG%. Yea, it's arbitrary and yes you mentioned his shooting from mid-range.

But Giannis is good enough to be a taller Harden: live behind the arc or attacking the hoop. He's got that kind of potential.

thank you great point... i dont understant why everyone is so concerned about his shooting.. i know he wasnt a great shooter last year but you could defintely see hes not far off.. while i dont think hell obviously ever be someone korver or ray allen (which hell those are some of the best 3 point shooters ever but you get the point) i think he will get to a point where hes gonna have a respectable three point shot the main thing with him is being alpha and taking games over..Giannis is unselfish and loves to get his teammates involved which is a good thing but i think he needs to take over more often which he will with age.. hes got good charactered teemates this year unllike last year where everyone cried about him playing more.. and that sweet hook shot he had on that post up last game was abdul jabbar like.. i really want him to develop that post up game where he can just shoot over smaller players.. i think that would make him great

[El Duderino]

Surprised you're that concerned with his shooting; that's about the least of my worries. Among players to shoot 3 3FGA per 100 possessions before their age 20 season he ranks 8th in NBA history in 3FG%. Yea, it's arbitrary and yes you mentioned his shooting from mid-range.

But Giannis is good enough to be a taller Harden: live behind the arc or attacking the hoop. He's got that kind of potential.

Unguarded three point shots are quite a bit different than shooting over a defender either in a post up or pulling up off the dribble from mid-range. Him ever becoming reasonably proficient at that is what would allow Giannis to be special, especially given his Durant like ridiculous length. That length will allow him to get a shot off over nearly any defender, but so far he's rarely ever even tried taking shots like that, much less making them.

To think he can become a yearly say 22-23 or more ppg scorer just mainly off driving the lane, in transition, and three pointers is something i'm skeptical of, even though points per game clearly won't have to be the only impact he has on games given other things he has the potential to excel at.

FWIW, i'm not talking about Giannis ever being able to shoot anything like Durant from all over the court since Durant was playing the game his whole life while Giannis didn't start until his teens. He does have that similar ridiculous length though, so developing just a respectable mid-range game would allow for him to become a matchup nightmare for anyone trying to guard him.

[paulpressey25]

Unguarded three point shots are quite a bit different than shooting over a defender either in a post up or pulling up off the dribble from mid-range.

He's so tall and lanky that right now he's very awkward when shooting from outside ten feet when moving, spinning, driving with a man on him, etc. I think that's the piece you think he's missing and I concur. I'm not sure he ever becomes highly proficient on those type of shots given his size, as he doesn't have Durant's level of coordination IMO (nor Garnett's).

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, I'm not worried at all about Giannis' spot-up shooting, he's already shown enough potential to be proficient beyond the arc in catch & shoot situations.

What he's lacking, and what will most likely cap his offensive ceiling short of guys like Durant and prime T-Mac, is his ability to shoot off the dribble.

But that's why you have Parker. Parker is tailor made to play next to Giannis because their skills complement each other so well.

[Newz]

A taller Harden? Man... that would be pretty crazy if he was putting up 20+ a game on a 60%+ TS%. I personally don't see that type of scoring potential in him, but maybe I am wrong.

I was hoping that his scoring is solid. If he can get you 15-20 a game and have a TS% around 52%-54% I think that would be pretty good. I think Giannis is going to make his biggest impact on the game distributing as a forward, rebounding and defending. Didn't realize people around here thought he was going to develop into a top 3 scorer in the NBA.

[LUKE23]

I see him around 20 ppg per 36 at high efficiency (.570ish TS) at his peak, but don't think he'll ever touch 25 ppg. If we are comparing him to star players, he still moves and plays like Pippen to me. #2 scorer, can handle PG duties at times, can guard 3-4 spots very well, high BBIQ, and create for others. Obviously, he's a long way from Pippen, but in terms of the stars I've seen him compared to, that is who he reminds me of most.

Pippen didn't average over 17 ppg per 36 until he was 25 years old. Of course, he also did that with 7.1 rebounds, 6.1 assists, 2.3 steals, and 1.1 blocks. at a .561 TS.

I think we are going to see a lot of 15/5/5/2/2 games from Giannis even this year though, assuming Kidd lets him loose. I just hope he has the mentality to be a takeover type because I think in isolation off the dribble he can already take most people reasonably well. And in transition he's a monster.

[paulpressey25]

A taller Harden? Man... that would be pretty crazy if he was putting up 20+ a game on a 60%+ TS%. I personally don't see that type of scoring potential in him, but maybe I am wrong.
.

If you have proper floor spacing, I'm not sure who stops him as "scoring PG" if he drives from the top of the key all the time ala Harden.

We're going to have an aesthetics battle on this board as it relates to usage, but frankly our best offensive set may simply be four floor spacers and clear out for Giannis. And if they pack it in to stop his drives, he's more than capable of kicking. Khris Middleton is going to make $20 million more on his contract next summer courtesy of Giannis.

[LUKE23]

In the halfcourt, Giannis iso will probably be near the top of our most efficient sets. And that's as much a compliment to him as it is an indictment of the rest our roster offensively in the halfcourt.

[Badgerlander]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMhdHuh1dNw[/youtube]

[SupremeHustle]

I continue to, and always will, disagree with anyone who believes Giannis will be an elite scorer in the NBA. I'd actually be fairly surprised if he ever averages 20 points per game in any season.

At the end of the day, I think his best comp numbers wise will be Lamar Odom. Not the sexiest name, but Odom had some really good seasons. Good rebounder, blocked shots, could pass it. And for the most part was a solid shooter. Odom never averaged 20 points per (TOBES!) though.

Adding a video of Odom highlights for the youngsters who only know him from Kardashian and crack. Giannis has a good handle, but Lamar's was on another level for a 6'11" dude.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JNRze_mUlc[/youtube]

[Newz]

A taller Harden? Man... that would be pretty crazy if he was putting up 20+ a game on a 60%+ TS%. I personally don't see that type of scoring potential in him, but maybe I am wrong.
.

If you have proper floor spacing, I'm not sure who stops him as "scoring PG" if he drives from the top of the key all the time ala Harden.

We're going to have an aesthetics battle on this board as it relates to usage, but frankly our best offensive set may simply be four floor spacers and clear out for Giannis. And if they pack it in to stop his drives, he's more than capable of kicking. Khris Middleton is going to make $20 million more on his contract next summer courtesy of Giannis.

I have no problem isolating Giannis and using him to break down the D, distribute, etc. I just don't see him scoring 25 points per game on a 60% TS%. I see him scoring something like 17-18 a game with a TS% somewhere between 52%-58%.

Which still obviously isn't bad, considering I expect Giannis to be a great rebounder and distributor for a 3 if he hits his ceiling... and he should be very good on D.

He just doesn't remind me of James Harden at all. He still reminds me a lot of Lamar Odom... only he's actually motivated to be great.

[Ron Swanson]

A taller Harden? Man... that would be pretty crazy if he was putting up 20+ a game on a 60%+ TS%. I personally don't see that type of scoring potential in him, but maybe I am wrong.
.

If you have proper floor spacing, I'm not sure who stops him as "scoring PG" if he drives from the top of the key all the time ala Harden.

We're going to have an aesthetics battle on this board as it relates to usage, but frankly our best offensive set may simply be four floor spacers and clear out for Giannis. And if they pack it in to stop his drives, he's more than capable of kicking. Khris Middleton is going to make $20 million more on his contract next summer courtesy of Giannis.

I think this raises another good debate when it comes to our core. Namely, how much do we value Middleton? Is he really a "core player" moving forward? And if so, how much are we willing to pay to retain him?

I think he's in line for a Jodie Meeks like deal as it is now, but if as you say, Giannis' effectiveness at creating for others inflates Middleton's stats, how high are we willing to go to keep a 24 year old shooter with a limited ceiling? I'd love to keep Middleton around but guys that can shoot 40% from deep are a valuable commodity and will get paid.

We just have to figure out how much value he has to a rebuilding team in our situation, because factoring in his age and the rising cap, it's quite possible he could command more than we'd be willing to pay (7-8 mil per) on the open market.

[paulpressey25]

I think his best comp numbers wise will be Lamar Odom.

Here's the difference IMO. Most of those video clips were typical Lakers transition and where other Laker star players are opening things up for him. I don't recall Odom having the ability (or desire) to sit at the top of the key in a half-court set and break down the defense on a drive. This is the piece Giannis has that could make him elite if he can perfect it.

I truly think we could "Michael Redd" him to 20ppg if the coaching staff so desired. Will it result in winning basketball or pretty basketball? I don't know. That's what we will learn this season.

[paulpressey25]

He just doesn't remind me of James Harden at all. He still reminds me a lot of Lamar Odom... only he's actually motivated to be great.

He's not James Harden now. But that's the point some of us are making. His best development direction may be along the lines of what Harden does. His best offensive skill is sitting at the top of the key and then driving to the hoop to either score over his shorter man, draw the foul or kick-out.

That's the skill he started to show in Summer League and did the other night. If he develops that, he's going to be a lot like Harden and the results will be ludacrisp. He's got another year or two of development here and Kidd has to use him in that role to see if it works.

[raferfenix]

If Giannis can get to the hoop at will and hit open jumpers he should have no problem scoring.

What is more interesting to me is whether or not we prioritize him getting buckets for himself or creating for teammates.

Considering we have Jabari Parker on the team you'd think the onus would be on setting up for others considering that the Greek Freak has that capacity.

[theFireBlanket]

I think his best comp numbers wise will be Lamar Odom.

Here's the difference IMO. Most of those video clips were typical Lakers transition and where other Laker star players are opening things up for him. I don't recall Odom having the ability (or desire) to sit at the top of the key in a half-court set and break down the defense on a drive. This is the piece Giannis has that could make him elite if he can perfect it.

I truly think we could "Michael Redd" him to 20ppg if the coaching staff so desired. Will it result in winning basketball or pretty basketball? I don't know. That's what we will learn this season.

The difference being that he'll also willingly make plays for others. Jabari currently has the Redd role when it comes to the amount of shots he's taking by comparison, interestingly Giannis is *nearly converting the same amount of buckets as him but on less attempts.

[Badgerlander]