Championship in 2018, what's the big plan?

DutchManDanFan · Post #1 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:15 am

John Hammond had said 17/18 is the season the Buck should be competing for glory. A good run in the 2017 play off's is needed so, the deadline of 2017 is the deadline for the Bucks to build the Championship roster. How does that look like?

Sure you can come up with a lot of interesting trades, but stick with the majority of the current roster and make it realistic. And only 1st and 2nd string. 3rd string can always be added later.
I don´t believe the 2015 (5-8 range) and 2016 (10-20 range) rookies will help competing in 16/17 or 17/18. So I'd use them for trades for the 17/18 campaign plan.

I think the core could look like this:

PG: ... - Wolters/Marshall
SG: Middleton/Mayo
SF: Giannis - Inglis
PF: Jabari - ... (Ersan)
C: Sanders - ... (Henson)

Not in the plan: Knight, Dudley, Bayless, Johnny O'B, Zaza, 2015 1st&2nd, 2016 1st&2nd. Future 1sts.

As I wrote before, I think the missing piece is one experienced high profile player, preferably at PG. I'm thinking Chris Paul in 2017. Very expensive (22.9 M in 16/17, 24.3 M in 17/18) but that might be helpfull if the Clippers are going nowhere at that time and need to rebuild. CP3 will be interested in playing for Kidd on a championship team where he can be of great value. Offer him a new deal for major $$ until 2020 and a coaching job after that.

With CP3, Ersan and Henson can stick around or be replaced. That doesn't matter much.

I think this plan is simple, possible and gives a real good chance for succes.

It means resigning the M's (Marshall, Middleton, Mayo) and the right offer at the right time for the Clippers. Good timing is everyting. But I would start contacting CP3's manager about this plan, and make sure it´s in the back of his head already.

The big question: What assets are needed to get the deal done in Feb 2017?
Or do you have better plans?

JustinCredible · Post #2 » by **JustinCredible** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:15 pm

Chris Paul isn't a plan. It is a pipedream. The plan is to continue to collect as many young assets as possible and see what sticks.

Bernman · Post #3 » by **Bernman** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:28 pm

The Clippers won't need to rebuild in 2017 w/ Paul and Griffin in the fold, unless you have some clairvoyance about a Griffin career-threatening injury. Then still Paul is the type of player who ensures you near 50 wins by carrying some offensive load, making teammates better, and d'ing it up at the point of attack. So I think you're being overly hopeful there.

But you're not being hopeful enough about our draft prospects. You're leaving out much focus on the upcoming drafts. At least one, this upcoming, should net us a top 10 pick. Then, if we tank at midseason, unlike w/ a dysfunctional owner in year's past (i.e. '12 when we could have had Steph Curry and Andre Drummond), we can acquire a gaggle of picks, actually. I think our alternative and possibly successor to Sanders comes from there. The draft is littered with centre prospects, i.e.: Okafor, Towns, Turner, WCS, Porzingis, D. Johnson, Diop, Portis, Harrell, Kaminsky, etc.

Then you're also overlooking what we may be able to do with assets like Henson and Knight now. I'd go all in with them to acquire our potential future starting pg. If that means packaging them for Dennis Schroeder, so be it. It would improve our outlook, as you can see. Because you don't even have Knight on the board, and Henson is a backup. We shouldn't burn assets like that, rather replenish them.

Not to mention DutchmanDan part 2, Michael Eric. He's a superstar backup center like your boy was.

Badgerlander · Post #4 » by **Badgerlander** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:46 pm

Durant didn't make the playoffs until his third season and doesn't have a championship yet after 7 seasons so 2018 might be a little premature. Maybe a competitive young playoff team by then would be nice.

Diggr14 · Post #5 » by **Diggr14** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:22 pm

2018 is definitely premature for a championship. Very competitive.. ok, i can buy that. Championship.. they will definitely be too green.. assuming no major trades before then.

drew881 · Post #6 » by **drew881** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:25 pm

If you are able to bring in a player, I don't think it will be a player at the top like Christ Paul. It will be a competent star, albeit not superstar (possibly one who has some baggage), a la Rasheed Wallace on the Pistons.

Here are some players that I could see coming in and contributing around our three draft picks (Giannis-Parker-x):

DeMarcus Cousins
Andre Drummond
Bradley Beal
Ricky Rubio
Mike Conley

So the first two scenarios assume Sanders doesn't work out. I'm not saying that is going to happen, but we have our PF-SF and we are really just looking at the other 3 positions.

The last three assume we can't get a star PG or SG in the next draft.

Newz · Post #7 » by **Newz** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:27 pm

Landing Andre Drummond would honestly be a miracle... unless his play totally falls off, he just randomly stops improving or he is one of the biggest d-bags in the league, I cannot see him going anywhere. That guy is a stud.

LUKE23 · Post #8 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:46 pm

It will hinge on this draft pick in 2015. Obviously, we should go BPA but we really need an impact guard. If you add Mudiay to our current core, I think we have everything you need to develop a title team. Obviously, that includes current players developing as hoped, and Sanders being our defensive anchor. I think Mudiay/Middleton/Giannis/Parker/Sanders can develop into a championship team.

ackypoo · Post #9 » by **ackypoo** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:54 pm

when you have a young and talented team, its not hard to attract FA's to put them over the top.

i understand "no one wants to come to milwaukee boo hoo" but thats because weve been **** for 30 years, sans 2 years in the early 2000s.

play this year, draft next year, reevaluate the year after.

JustinCredible · Post #10 » by **JustinCredible** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:00 pm

There has been talk of the Warriors not being able to afford to keep Klay Thompson after this season. What would you guys think about giving him a big contract in the offseason or making a deadline day deal for him?

When he was rumored to be traded to the Wolves it was believed that he would sign a long deal because he just wants the most money possible. I don't think he would have a problem coming to Milwaukee.

Thunder Muscle · Post #11 » by **Thunder Muscle** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:01 pm

Ultimately its going to be about developing the talent we have and contiuing to do so with young pieces we add along the way. Hopefully in a couple years we'll be in a position that Parker/Giannis are a legit core and you can add solid veteran players around them if need be.

Ideally in my head...

This season: Just show improvement on the court from last year. I'm not really putting a win total goal, but I would hope that we're improved and our young pieces take forward leaps.
Next year: I think its realistic to be in the playoff conversation as an up & coming team.
In 3-4 years I'd hope to be a high 40s/low 50 team and by year 5 in a Final conversation.

drew881 · Post #12 » by **drew881** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:13 pm

ackypoo wrote:when you have a young and talented team, its not hard to attract FA's to put them over the top.

i understand "no one wants to come to milwaukee boo hoo" but thats because weve been **** for 30 years, sans 2 years in the early 2000s.

I wonder whether Lebron going back to Cleveland on a 2-year stint will change the perception of going somewhere to win. If you remember, that following the decision, everyone played the copycat game and tried to form their super best friends team. I'm not saying everyone is going to copy Lebron and go to Sacramento and Minnesota, but the most interesting part about his move is how he signed such a short term contract. Perhaps other players with big endorsement deals and financial security would consider two years in a small market to try to win.

Thunder Muscle · Post #13 » by **Thunder Muscle** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:17 pm

It won't hurt but the difference is the ties LeBron had to Cleveland/Ohio. I don't necessarily know if a top 5 talent is going to come to Milwaukee if no ties to the region.

skones · Post #14 » by **skones** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:22 pm

Honestly, unless Middleton scores 18-20 a game on really good efficiency, I'm thinking I'd let him walk after this season. His free agency comes at an awkward time for us developmentally.

LUKE23 · Post #15 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:25 pm

He's only 23 and is near elite in terms of 3 point shooting, plus he's RFA. Obviously it depends on the offer, but the Bucks cap is clear two years from now (only $21.7M committed not counting draft picks). He's the type of players we should be looking to keep.

davids22 · Post #16 » by **davids22** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:31 pm

Thunder Muscle wrote:It won't hurt but the difference is the ties LeBron had to Cleveland/Ohio. I don't necessarily know if a top 5 talent is going to come to Milwaukee if no ties to the region.

It goes off more of our history if anything. No one wants to come into a losing culture.

If we're bad just one more year (this year) to get another lottery talent but show some serious signs of improvement (such as Jabari ROY, maybe Giannis puts up that 13/5/2/2 number we all salivate over, OJ Mayo doesn't look fat, etc), we can maybe sneak into the playoffs in 15-16 as a low seeded up-and-comer (sort of like the Wizards last year, and the Pacers a few years back). Proper development from all our guys leads us to a 4-5 seed in 16-17 and a tough 2nd round exit. By this point we've resigned our core guys to 3-4 year extensions, and players around the league can see that we're just one top-tier player away from being an actual contender. THAT's when a free agent breaks the Milwaukee mold and decides to sign here after a long conversation with Jason Kidd (who I still think is a great asset to have when it comes to attempting to sign FAs in the future).

That's a lot of things that have to go RIGHT with plenty of room for error. But a winning team with a young core will have a number of players take notice around the league. Guys in their 20s don't want to play in the cold, but the guys in their early 30s might hear Father-Time ticking and sacrifice the weather for a chance to be a key contributor on an exciting team in Milwaukee.

davids22 · Post #17 » by **davids22** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:32 pm

skones wrote:Honestly, unless Middleton scores 18-20 a game on really good efficiency, I'm thinking I'd let him walk after this season. His free agency comes at an awkward time for us developmentally.

I disagree. If we can extend him before the salary cap increases then he'll be a bargain in a few years. The cost of role players is only going to go up.

DutchManDanFan · Post #18 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:54 pm

JustinCredible wrote:Chris Paul isn't a plan. It is a pipedream.

Maybe it's a pipedream, but it's definitely a plan. Of course a plan B is needed.

JustinCredible wrote:The plan is to continue to collect as many young assets as possible and see what sticks.

Well, this is not a plan for a Championship. It certainly isn't going to lead to the ultimate goal. You have to come with something better. This might lead to a 50+ W's team, like the Clippers are now and will be for the next couple of years. Then the stars might start asking for a trade because they see a ring isn't going to happen.
And that's why CP3 isn't just a pipedream. Certainly not with his price tag around his neck ($ 24 mil).

But plan B would be another experienced PG (top 5/10) who is still of great value in 2018. Tony Parker, Rondo, Rubio, Bledsoe? Who else?

I don't believe in a PG (or other players) who has to be drafted yet to become succesful in the near future. Not with this young core. And if you need to look beyond 2018 then it's useless to make a plan like this. Then you're just hoping for some luck. Well, the luck came already with Giannis & Jabari. Now it's time for a big plan. I gave you one and I haven't seen a better one yet.

DutchManDanFan · Post #19 » by **DutchManDanFan** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:07 pm

DocHoliday wrote:Durant didn't make the playoffs until his third season and doesn't have a championship yet after 7 seasons so 2018 might be a little premature.

I think it could have been different if they kept Harden and traded Westbrook for Rondo, Paul, or even D Williams or Nash before the deadline of 2012.

DocHoliday wrote:Maybe a competitive young playoff team by then would be nice.

Fun and nice, yes. But not so if the target is a Championship and you know only one piece is missing.

averageposter · Post #20 » by **averageposter** » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:20 pm

I don't think the Bucks are close enough to have a plan at least not in a specific targeted player kind of way. You have to even make an assumption or two about Giannis and Parker to cement 2 positions to build around. But in the present you have to know the next draft seems to be a big man draft and you have to see that with Parker, Giannis, Henson, Sanders, our develop-able talent lies in the front court. Its early to say the draft isn't likely to offer real help in the back-court as undoubtedly others will emerge over the course of the season beyond Mudiay, but I think that puts some further emphasis on what you'd like to see the Bucks target with in-season trades.

Young PG/SGs need apply. Maybe those deals aren't out there either but whatever the Bucks have in assets I'd like top see go toward acquiring that type of player if any move is made at all. While you can win with PGs of all types the Bucks have a couple of bigs that fit that athletic mold that need a little help creating their offense, I'd like to see more of a floor general then a scorer there personally.

So I think my plan is to put a plan off for this season. And simply be opportunistic. If a possible building block type young wing player becomes available and some combination of a Knight + other assets can get the job done I'd probably make a move like that without to much debate about relative value. Aside from that I don't see where you can go right now, because you don't want Vets to improve the win total artificially until the others are truly ready.