Arena Discussion-Feigin Says $1 billion Potential Development - PG 62

[JabariParker12]

I wonder with Karmazan being in the minority ownership group if they pimp the Bucks a little more.

That's a great point. I hope so. He's smart enough to know he got in on the ground floor with the Brewers resurgence, he probably envisions similar happenings with the Bucks but possibly on an even grander scale with it all being centrally located downtown.

[TripGs]

Because I am bored tonight, here's a high quality (please note the sarcasm) rendering of how I could see this work. Green would be Pedestrian walkways, yellow: new retail, restaurant, or office development, purple: parking structures, black additional roadways. So basically close 4th to traffic, extend 5th to State, reopen Highland, and use the old Bradley Center for retail/parking. Ideally you merge the operations of the old arena with the new arena, thus creating a truly functioning sports and entertainment district.

I posted this once before in another arena thread, but I think third street would be easier to close cause it has less traffic, and having the arena bookend 3rd street so that you would see the arena as you walk down to bars/restaurants on 3rd street would be awesome looking. Just the journal block and one street closed may still be too small so I thought the arena could actually go over 4th street making 4th street tunnel underneath the stands.

Here's my crappy rendering:


Other ideas in it:
- New arena would directly connect to UWM arena, and the 2 arenas can be opened up together and utilized for large events like indoor festivals.
- 3rd Street north of the arena is closed to vehicle traffic from 6 PM to 2 AM, and open alcohol containers are allowed on the street.
- Major Goolsby's moves to the parking lot on 3rd street.
- 4th street tunnel can used for covered valet parking

[Thunder Muscle]

This site obviously adds to the story about Goolsby's applying to run the Turner Restaurant.

[MickeyDavis]

Yes it does. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know about. I always thought Goolsbys was overrated, but it's an institution and I guess if they can keep it by moving it to the Turners location that's fine. Before Jerry Cohen bought that place and turned it into Goolsbys in 1972 it was owned by Al McGuire.

[lunchbox]

I don't see 4th street being taken off the maps for driving north/south on. 4th street can really move traffic. 6th street for traffic is horrible due to the tunnel nearby, MATC, police station, courthouse proximity. I take 4th north every day after work and I can fly up it 99% of the time. I take 6th street only when I absolutely need to. Love the idea of a park right next to the new BC, allows for a block party type of atmosphere, boats to drop off pickup (a nice new shuttle service) from bars along the river (could cut down on traffic in late season months).

[TripGs]

Random idea... instead of the Bucks going it alone to replace the St. Francis facility, what if all 4 of Milwaukee's professional teams: Bucks, Brewers (most players live downtown), Wave and Admirals teamed up to create an best-of-breed athlete training center downtown. For example, at the 4th and Wisconsin site is a good central location for athletes to drop in. The teams could pool together to create a state of art center with...
• A couple of basketball gyms
• Latest, top-of-line fitness equipment
• Shared trainers, physical therapist, etc.
• Kitchens with full time dieticians on staff
• Meeting rooms with latest technology equipment
• Temporary apartments for new team members
• Swimming pool, sauna, etc.
Make playing for a Milwaukee team truly rewarding, but still keeping the costs relatively low for all teams involved. Perhaps even Marquette and UWM could get involved depending on how the Al McGuire and Klotsche centers are satisfying them.

[nyrfan28]

forgive my ignorance (obviously i'm not an architect), but is it me or does the journal sentinel lot not look large enough to fit something the size of the bradley center?

[paulpressey25]

forgive my ignorance (obviously i'm not an architect), but is it me or does the journal sentinel lot not look large enough to fit something the size of the bradley center?

The Journal site is just the start. Once they get their option on that building, look for them to then visit the discussion of the blocks to the north(Turners), northwest (current BC) and west (old arena) for additional space and development.

[Bucks_MacGyver]

I have mix feelings about this because my mom is effected by this. She is one oh the jobs that were cut. It's been hard for her. So I have no opinions

[emunney]

Why would sonics fans want expansion? So the league is more watered down and they can have even worse attendance than when they had a team?

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The league is watered down as a result of its own policies, not due to a lack of talent to fill the spots. Adding teams wouldn't make it any worse or better.

[EastSideBucksFan]

Yes it does. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know about. I always thought Goolsbys was overrated, but it's an institution and I guess if they can keep it by moving it to the Turners location that's fine. Before Jerry Cohen bought that place and turned it into Goolsbys in 1972 it was owned by Al McGuire.

I love Goolbys.

I'm going to push for them to move the current Goolbys restaurant into the new arena.

[nyrfan28]

forgive my ignorance (obviously i'm not an architect), but is it me or does the journal sentinel lot not look large enough to fit something the size of the bradley center?

The Journal site is just the start. Once they get their option on that building, look for them to then visit the discussion of the blocks to the north(Turners), northwest (current BC) and west (old arena) for additional space and development.

right, they pretty much have to expand west across 4 traffic lanes of 4th street and demolish the uwm arena, which seems pretty intrusive given traffic disruption and gimbel's presumed opposition. but yes, it then creates a large plot of land in a great location.

i don't think they stand to gain much space by expanding north, or they risk razing existing establishments (ogbh, buck bradleys, turners, maders, etc...) that would otherwise attract people to the stadium district year round.

given the list of proposed locations, i'll be satisfied with whatever they decide because ultimately it means we're getting a new arena, i'm just curious as to how they intend to execute their plans from here.

[aValpo]

Why would sonics fans want expansion? So the league is more watered down and they can have even worse attendance than when they had a team?

Sent from my SCH-R530U using RealGM Forums mobile app

The league is watered down as a result of its own policies, not due to a lack of talent to fill the spots. Adding teams wouldn't make it any worse or better.

Off topic, but what policies? Basketball requires only a couple great players to turn any team into a title contender. So adding 2 teams would spread mediocre talent around, while 3 or 4 teams remain dominant with a star.

The terrible parity in the NBA has hurt a bunch of smaller markets because of the structure of the league - in the NFL, MLB, and NHL teams that just barely make the playoffs are ecstatic because they know once in, anything can happen. In the NBA, however, it's an unspeakable act. I don't see how spreading talent around can only further diminish the mediocre teams and cause even more teams to start tanking mid season.

[FrieAaron]

I really think parity would be find if you raised (like way raised) the maximum salary, made sure the minimum salary was still a good living and set a hard cap in place.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

I have mix feelings about this because my mom is effected by this. She is one oh the jobs that were cut. It's been hard for her. So I have no opinions

I really don't think think this has much to do with the job cuts. It may have made it happen earlier but I think the JS really wanted to move out of the that location and would downsize no matter what. If anything, a higher asking price put a few more dollars in the coffers that could save a few jobs.

I could be way off since I don't really know everything that is going on there.

[Det the Threat]

I take it you don't read Sonics Rising or Twitter any time there's a big development on the Bucks arena front? Plenty of Sonics fans either lamenting that we got closer to getting it done, or explaining how they can still steal team from Milwaukee if A and B happen etc.

I was obviously exaggerating. Not every Sonics fan wants to get the team from Milwaukee. But I've seen enough of them that do to really piss me off. If the Bucks had moved 10 years ago I wouldn't be campaigning to steal a team from another small market town with a passionate fanbase that doesn't deserve to lose a team. That's lame as hell.

I read and post on SonicsRising and outside of a few(that post it quite often) most guys want you to get things done so it doesn't hold up our stuff any longer.
The editors/staff and knowledgeble users usually talk about not looking at Milwaukee and finding other ways to get a team back.

Of course there are some that will talk it up and say some stuff, but it's the internet and there's crap writtin everywhere.

I think some people are assuming that this will come down to a take-it-or-leave-it scenario for the taxpayers where they will have to decide whether or not to extend the MP tax.

I don't think this will happen. The take-it-or-leave-it scenario actually applies more to the new owners than it does to taxpayers as they know full well that the amount of apathy towards the Bucks in the city makes asking for sales tax money an impossible task. At this point they know any referendum in Milwaukee would fail miserably. So I feel the ball is on the owner's court, not the taxpayers'. They will ultimately have to decide if they want to pony up more cash to keep the team here, or sell the team back, probably losing money in the process, and losing out on their chance to own an NBA team, something which they wanted all along. I feel it's really going to be owners vs arena/NBA, not taxpayers vs arena/NBA.

I'm not sure a TIF will generate $200 million in tax, and I'm certain the jock tax won't generate a whole lot either, but ultimately I think they'll take what they can get and realize they don't really have the leverage. They want an NBA team, and that will ultimately drive them to not let the team turn back over to the NBA. The Sacramento Kings funded $222 million for their new arena, and their primary owner's net worth is an estimated $700 million. Even if a sales tax miraculously passes, the Bucks are going to pay more than $100 million for the stadium.

I doubt that those guys want to pay more for it.
They bought the team and agreed to pay another $100 mil for the arena. If they pony up more money, they'll lose that as well and the only way they could make money later would be by selling the team afterwards.

So all things considered, the ball's in the hands of the elected officials who have to decide if they want to pony up the taxdollars needed for this arena.
The NBA has already told you what they expect and they always side with the owners, as their business model requires the markets to chip in(about half the cost at least) for their new venues.

[MickeyDavis]

Yes it does. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know about. I always thought Goolsbys was overrated, but it's an institution and I guess if they can keep it by moving it to the Turners location that's fine. Before Jerry Cohen bought that place and turned it into Goolsbys in 1972 it was owned by Al McGuire.

I love Goolbys.

I'm going to push for them to move the current Goolbys restaurant into the new arena.

I'd be all for that. I want as much local stuff as possible in the new arena and related development. I don't mind Goolsbys but I got a kick when it was rated in the top 5 sports bars in the country lol.

[aValpo]

I take it you don't read Sonics Rising or Twitter any time there's a big development on the Bucks arena front? Plenty of Sonics fans either lamenting that we got closer to getting it done, or explaining how they can still steal team from Milwaukee if A and B happen etc.

I was obviously exaggerating. Not every Sonics fan wants to get the team from Milwaukee. But I've seen enough of them that do to really piss me off. If the Bucks had moved 10 years ago I wouldn't be campaigning to steal a team from another small market town with a passionate fanbase that doesn't deserve to lose a team. That's lame as hell.

I read and post on SonicsRising and outside of a few(that post it quite often) most guys want you to get things done so it doesn't hold up our stuff any longer.
The editors/staff and knowledgeble users usually talk about not looking at Milwaukee and finding other ways to get a team back.

Of course there are some that will talk it up and say some stuff, but it's the internet and there's crap writtin everywhere.

I think some people are assuming that this will come down to a take-it-or-leave-it scenario for the taxpayers where they will have to decide whether or not to extend the MP tax.

I don't think this will happen. The take-it-or-leave-it scenario actually applies more to the new owners than it does to taxpayers as they know full well that the amount of apathy towards the Bucks in the city makes asking for sales tax money an impossible task. At this point they know any referendum in Milwaukee would fail miserably. So I feel the ball is on the owner's court, not the taxpayers'. They will ultimately have to decide if they want to pony up more cash to keep the team here, or sell the team back, probably losing money in the process, and losing out on their chance to own an NBA team, something which they wanted all along. I feel it's really going to be owners vs arena/NBA, not taxpayers vs arena/NBA.

I'm not sure a TIF will generate $200 million in tax, and I'm certain the jock tax won't generate a whole lot either, but ultimately I think they'll take what they can get and realize they don't really have the leverage. They want an NBA team, and that will ultimately drive them to not let the team turn back over to the NBA. The Sacramento Kings funded $222 million for their new arena, and their primary owner's net worth is an estimated $700 million. Even if a sales tax miraculously passes, the Bucks are going to pay more than $100 million for the stadium.

I doubt that those guys want to pay more for it.
They bought the team and agreed to pay another $100 mil for the arena. If they pony up more money, they'll lose that as well and the only way they could make money later would be by selling the team afterwards.

So all things considered, the ball's in the hands of the elected officials who have to decide if they want to pony up the taxdollars needed for this arena.
The NBA has already told you what they expect and they always side with the owners, as their business model requires the markets to chip in(about half the cost at least) for their new venues.

But then they can't own a team. They want to own a team.


Also, your last sentence isn't true. The NBA doesn't care how arenas are paid for... Just that they get done.

[MickeyDavis]

I have mix feelings about this because my mom is effected by this. She is one oh the jobs that were cut. It's been hard for her. So I have no opinions

I really don't think think this has much to do with the job cuts. It may have made it happen earlier but I think the JS really wanted to move out of the that location and would downsize no matter what. If anything, a higher asking price put a few more dollars in the coffers that could save a few jobs.

I could be way off since I don't really know everything that is going on there.

Circulation has been declining for years but it has more to do with computers. You simply don't have to have very many people in the newsroom anymore. Reporters file their stories online, editors do their thing online, decisions about what stories to print and where they go in the paper can all be done remotely. There's really no reason to have anything more than a satellite office. And now that the paper portion of the company is being split off and merging with Scripts combined with interest from the Bucks it's the perfect time to sell the building. If they don't they may be stuck with it for a long, long time.

[Treebeard]

I have mix feelings about this because my mom is effected by this. She is one oh the jobs that were cut. It's been hard for her. So I have no opinions

I really don't think think this has much to do with the job cuts. It may have made it happen earlier but I think the JS really wanted to move out of the that location and would downsize no matter what. If anything, a higher asking price put a few more dollars in the coffers that could save a few jobs.

I could be way off since I don't really know everything that is going on there.

Circulation has been declining for years but it has more to do with computers. You simply don't have to have very many people in the newsroom anymore. Reporters file their stories online, editors do their thing online, decisions about what stories to print and where they go in the paper can all be done remotely. There's really no reason to have anything more than a satellite office. And now that the paper portion of the company is being split off and merging with Scripts combined with interest from the Bucks it's the perfect time to sell the building. If they don't they may be stuck with it for a long, long time.

I think someone had earlier posted the number of hard copy papers MJS printed daily from a few years ago and compared that to today. I want to say it was a four-fold drop, but I wouldn't swear to that number.

I've gone through the downsizing routine a couple of times in my work lifetime. It just sucks, regardless of the background reasons. It does seem to hurt more, when you feel as though you have done your job well.