Arena Discussion-Feigin Says $1 billion Potential Development - PG 62

[trwi7]

The Bucks group could also team up with Hansen(who wouldn't mind another investor with Ballmer gone) and be partial "owners" of a team in Seattle, if all they wanted was "owning" a team.

If Lasry wanted to be a partial owner of a team, he would've just kept his share of the Nets.

[M-C-G]

I am all for a blend of modern and classic MKE. Cream city brick with modern and glass facing the river...That way it fits in the city but is modern.

[Det the Threat]

The Bucks group could also team up with Hansen(who wouldn't mind another investor with Ballmer gone) and be partial "owners" of a team in Seattle, if all they wanted was "owning" a team.

If Lasry wanted to be a partial owner of a team, he would've just kept his share of the Nets.

It was just a response to that "they want to own a team and should spend most for the arena themselves" quote before.
That's not how the NBA wants things to be done and not how rich guys do business.

The thing you have to do is find a way to make it more appealing to the city/state to agree on using a good amount of tax dollars for the arena.

[JayMKE]

I am all for a blend of modern and classic MKE. Cream city brick with modern and glass facing the river...That way it fits in the city but is modern.

Something like a scaled down American Airlines Center in Dallas would be pretty sick especially if they could do it with cream city brick.

[aValpo]

I am all for a blend of modern and classic MKE. Cream city brick with modern and glass facing the river...That way it fits in the city but is modern.

Something like a scaled down American Airlines Center in Dallas would be pretty sick especially if they could do it with cream city brick.

So like a Bankers Life? That thing looks great, despite being surrounded by train tracks and a jail.

[paulpressey25]

New SOB....

http://saveourbucks.com/new-arena-site- ... -building/

I walked around the Journal building last night. That site by itself is too small. They either go for adding in the old arena or they go north and demolish the Old World Third block which would be ok but would get the howls from the bar owners and historic preservation types.

Given that we don't need three buildings in a row (New arena, old arena, Milwaukee theater) I think they go west and take down the old arena. Once they have an option on the Journal building they release concept drawings and put the heat on the WCD board and Gimbel. I think they get it done if they can figure out how to deal with closing 4th street.

[Enrique]

The Bucks group could also team up with Hansen(who wouldn't mind another investor with Ballmer gone) and be partial "owners" of a team in Seattle, if all they wanted was "owning" a team.

If Lasry wanted to be a partial owner of a team, he would've just kept his share of the Nets.

It was just a response to that "they want to own a team and should spend most for the arena themselves" quote before.
That's not how the NBA wants things to be done and not how rich guys do business.

The thing you have to do is find a way to make it more appealing to the city/state to agree on using a good amount of tax dollars for the arena.

You seem to think that the Seattle and Milwaukee situations are parallel. They're not. Our previous owner Senator Kohl put in protections to keep the team here. Of course the new owners don't want to pay more, but they're going to. There will be no sales tax, just super TIF and jock tax and naming rights. The new owners don't have any choice if they want to own a team. Also, they don't want to just be minority investors, they want control. That will only happen in Milwaukee. This might not be ideal for the NBA, but I think Golden State did it with very limited publicly provided corporate welfare.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Det the Threat]

You seem to think that the Seattle and Milwaukee situations are parallel. They're not. Our previous owner Senator Kohl put in protections to keep the team here. Of course the new owners don't want to pay more, but they're going to. There will be no sales tax, just super TIF and jock tax and naming rights. The new owners don't have any choice if they want to own a team. Also, they don't want to just be minority investors, they want control. That will only happen in Milwaukee. This might not be ideal for the NBA, but I think Golden State did it with very limited publicly provided corporate welfare.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I never said they wouldn't pay a bit more. I even asked how much more you think they would/should add to those $100 mil they already offer.

The thing I found strange was that people here are saying that it's on the owners and not the city/state to get something done.
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I got the impression that some believe they should even pay for everything and that's just not going to happen.

BTW: It's pretty clear that Seattle/Milwaukee have slight difference and the main one is that the league has learned from it's mistakes in Seattle and, most importantly, that your owners aren't guys that already had a team in their market and are hell bend on relocating a team there.

Anyways, I'm rooting for you guys to get it done.

[Treebeard]

New SOB....

http://saveourbucks.com/new-arena-site- ... -building/

As usual, a well thought through and well presented set of ideas.

[JackSIKMA43]

The nervous nellies need to r e l a x, the team isn't going anywhere. The arena project is moving forward faster than anyone would have thought possible. And that's just from what's been leaked.

I agree, but until that shiny silver shovel makes its first dig into the ground, I'm always going to be a bit nervous and timid about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Edens, Lasry, and the others cave in a bit, and contribute more of their own money, before it's all said and done. These dudes are billionaires. What's a couple of extra hundred million to them? In the grand scheme of things, likely not a whole lot.

They are going to continue to make millions in their other business ventures. At this point, the Bucks are more or less one of the toys they get to play with. They did not buy the Bucks to make a sh*t-ton of money off it. They bought the Bucks to be a part of the fraternity of people that can say, "I own an NBA team and it's cool". Perhaps I'm dead wrong, but that's how I see the whole thing.

[Enrique]

You seem to think that the Seattle and Milwaukee situations are parallel. They're not. Our previous owner Senator Kohl put in protections to keep the team here. Of course the new owners don't want to pay more, but they're going to. There will be no sales tax, just super TIF and jock tax and naming rights. The new owners don't have any choice if they want to own a team. Also, they don't want to just be minority investors, they want control. That will only happen in Milwaukee. This might not be ideal for the NBA, but I think Golden State did it with very limited publicly provided corporate welfare.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I never said they wouldn't pay a bit more. I even asked how much more you think they would/should add to those $100 mil they already offer.

The thing I found strange was that people here are saying that it's on the owners and not the city/state to get something done.
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I got the impression that some believe they should even pay for everything and that's just not going to happen.

BTW: It's pretty clear that Seattle/Milwaukee have slight difference and the main one is that the league has learned from it's mistakes in Seattle and, most importantly, that your owners aren't guys that already had a team in their market and are hell bend on relocating a team there.

Anyways, I'm rooting for you guys to get it done.

Well I'm glad you're rooting for us, nobody here wants to see the Bucks leave as well. You're not in the loop about politics here, so there's no way you would understand just how dead on arrival a sales tax or any other tax on the general public would be. It really is a bipartisan issue. The only way this gets done is 1. The owners pay more, 2. Jock tax on players income, 3. A TIF district which would target fans of the Bucks. The owners are smart men I believe, they should know by now how it's gonna go down.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[TroyD92]

If going North means closing down Turner Hall I'll be totally against it.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

The nervous nellies need to r e l a x, the team isn't going anywhere. The arena project is moving forward faster than anyone would have thought possible. And that's just from what's been leaked.

I agree, but until that shiny silver shovel makes its first dig into the ground, I'm always going to be a bit nervous and timid about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Edens, Lasry, and the others cave in a bit, and contribute more of their own money, before it's all said and done. These dudes are billionaires. What's a couple of extra hundred million to them? In the grand scheme of things, likely not a whole lot.

They are going to continue to make millions in their other business ventures. At this point, the Bucks are more or less one of the toys they get to play with. They did not buy the Bucks to make a sh*t-ton of money off it. They bought the Bucks to be a part of the fraternity of people that can say, "I own an NBA team and it's cool". Perhaps I'm dead wrong, but that's how I see the whole thing.

Was that a serious comment on what's a couple hundred million to them? These guys spent a half century building up their net worth and you think they don't care about 25% of it? They may be worth 1 billion but a lot of that is already invested in the bucks, houses, and other investments. I doubt they just have a couple hundred million available. These guys are rich but not that rich.

[Enrique]

They're rich enough to build an arena themselves and not notice too much of a difference in their quality of living. I suspect that the third billionaire that they just brought into the group was brought in to help diffuse the cost of building an arena.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[aValpo]

The nervous nellies need to r e l a x, the team isn't going anywhere. The arena project is moving forward faster than anyone would have thought possible. And that's just from what's been leaked.

I agree, but until that shiny silver shovel makes its first dig into the ground, I'm always going to be a bit nervous and timid about it. I wouldn't be surprised if Edens, Lasry, and the others cave in a bit, and contribute more of their own money, before it's all said and done. These dudes are billionaires. What's a couple of extra hundred million to them? In the grand scheme of things, likely not a whole lot.

They are going to continue to make millions in their other business ventures. At this point, the Bucks are more or less one of the toys they get to play with. They did not buy the Bucks to make a sh*t-ton of money off it. They bought the Bucks to be a part of the fraternity of people that can say, "I own an NBA team and it's cool". Perhaps I'm dead wrong, but that's how I see the whole thing.

Was that a serious comment on what's a couple hundred million to them? These guys spent a half century building up their net worth and you think they don't care about 25% of it? They may be worth 1 billion but a lot of that is already invested in the bucks, houses, and other investments. I doubt they just have a couple hundred million available. These guys are rich but not that rich.

25% of their net worth ($2.9 billion) is $725 million… which would make for a $825 million stadium with 0 public funding and Kohls donation. But theres going to be some amount of public funding from a TIF, naming rights, etc. Like I said earlier, the Kings ownership group financed $222 million, and the Warriors are building a $500 million stadium with only private money - their principal owner is worth $250 million. I'm not sure what $100-150 million each is worth to them, but I'm thinking they won't abandon the team and begrudgingly chip in more because like other posters have said, a sales tax is a complete nonstarter in Wisconsin.

[paulpressey25]

You guys are all going the wrong direction on this.

a) There is not going to be any sales tax.

b) The owners aren't going to personally write a check for another $200 million just because we decide to hold a gun to their heads and threaten them to have to sell the franchise back to the NBA because on principal "It's the right thing to do."

This is a public-private partnership. Bucks get new state of the art arena. City gets to keep the economic engine of the Bucks along with a new facility to be used by other groups and events 100+ nights a year. Both parties benefit, so you split the costs.

A "New Arena" district (governmental entity) will be created. That entity will have the power to issue tax-exempt bonds to be sold to investors. The district will issue perhaps $200 million in bonds to be paid back over 30-years.

The money to pay the bondholders each year will come from the State of Wisconsin. Each year the State will calculate how much income tax money they received from NBA players, Bucks employees and maybe general sales tax on concessions sold inside the arena. That money will be segregated out and sent to the District to pay the bonds.

Everyone wins.

[Enrique]

I do think that is what will happen, but I remain skeptical that a jock tax & a TIF district west of the river could ever generate enough $$ to cover the needed 250-300$$. We'll find out soon enough.




Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Det the Threat]

Well I'm glad you're rooting for us, nobody here wants to see the Bucks leave as well. You're not in the loop about politics here, so there's no way you would understand just how dead on arrival a sales tax or any other tax on the general public would be. It really is a bipartisan issue. The only way this gets done is 1. The owners pay more, 2. Jock tax on players income, 3. A TIF district which would target fans of the Bucks. The owners are smart men I believe, they should know by now how it's gonna go down.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I'm surely not(lurking from Germany) but trust me, I know about a city/state being in no mood whatsoever to pony up tax dollars.

And as long as Frank Chop hasn't traded places from Washington to Wisconsin, you're certainly in a better place.

They're rich enough to build an arena themselves and not notice too much of a difference in their quality of living. I suspect that the third billionaire that they just brought into the group was brought in to help diffuse the cost of building an arena.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

They didn't get rich by handing out money left and right, without regard for their bank accounts.

It would also mean that the arena would be completely privatly founded and that's not what the NBA, and those other owners(who'll ask their markets later on for tax dollars), want to see happening.

You guys are all going the wrong direction on this.

a) There is not going to be any sales tax.

b) The owners aren't going to personally write a check for another $200 million just because we decide to hold a gun to their heads and threaten them to have to sell the franchise back to the NBA because on principal "It's the right thing to do."

This is a public-private partnership. Bucks get new state of the art arena. City gets to keep the economic engine of the Bucks along with a new facility to be used by other groups and events 100+ nights a year. Both parties benefit, so you split the costs.

A "New Arena" district (governmental entity) will be created. That entity will have the power to issue tax-exempt bonds to be sold to investors. The district will issue perhaps $200 million in bonds to be paid back over 30-years.

The money to pay the bondholders each year will come from the State of Wisconsin. Each year the State will calculate how much income tax money they received from NBA players, Bucks employees and maybe general sales tax on concessions sold inside the arena. That money will be segregated out and sent to the District to pay the bonds.

Everyone wins.

Absolutely.

This is something for the whole region/city and not just a basketball gym.
They could talk to the city about handing over the building(with a very good lease for themselves to keep making money) so that the city can use it to bring in musicans, circus, national conventions etc. and make the money back, over time, they invest.

Also, while having this arena and attrackting the NBA and other things the region will benefit as well, as those visitors will need to park, buy some stuff, visit other attractions and maybe even spend a night or two in a Milwaukee based hotel.

[aValpo]

You guys are all going the wrong direction on this.

a) There is not going to be any sales tax.

b) The owners aren't going to personally write a check for another $200 million just because we decide to hold a gun to their heads and threaten them to have to sell the franchise back to the NBA because on principal "It's the right thing to do."

This is a public-private partnership. Bucks get new state of the art arena. City gets to keep the economic engine of the Bucks along with a new facility to be used by other groups and events 100+ nights a year. Both parties benefit, so you split the costs.

A "New Arena" district (governmental entity) will be created. That entity will have the power to issue tax-exempt bonds to be sold to investors. The district will issue perhaps $200 million in bonds to be paid back over 30-years.

The money to pay the bondholders each year will come from the State of Wisconsin. Each year the State will calculate how much income tax money they received from NBA players, Bucks employees and maybe general sales tax on concessions sold inside the arena. That money will be segregated out and sent to the District to pay the bonds.

Everyone wins.

Great summary, and you obviously know more about the financing aspect than all of us. $200 million in state bonds with no sales tax seems a bit rosey - have there been other cities that have financed $200 million+ with no new salgenerateAnd how much can a jock tax conceivably raise?

I didn't want to frame the argument as the taxpayers threatening the owners to put up more of their own cash because its the right thing to do - moreso, the fact that a sales tax won't happen in Milwaukee (not arguing for or against, just stating reality) may create a take-it-or-leave-it scenario for the owners to pitch in the difference between the amount of public financing created through bonds, TIFs, naming rights, etc and the amount to build the stadium. What that amount is will be the (multi) million dollar question. If I understand you correctly, you believe this difference may be 0, which would be ideal, and make our arguing pointless.

[drew881]

New SOB....

http://saveourbucks.com/new-arena-site- ... -building/

I walked around the Journal building last night. That site by itself is too small. They either go for adding in the old arena or they go north and demolish the Old World Third block which would be ok but would get the howls from the bar owners and historic preservation types.

Given that we don't need three buildings in a row (New arena, old arena, Milwaukee theater) I think they go west and take down the old arena. Once they have an option on the Journal building they release concept drawings and put the heat on the WCD board and Gimbel. I think they get it done if they can figure out how to deal with closing 4th street.

We need to list all of the events in the old Mecca and see what other venues they could go to. The UWM games is the obvious problem, but what else is hosted there. Graduations? Can those be moved to other venues like the Milwaukee theater?

I'm not sure you knock out the area north of the journal building. Not only is it historic, but it already is an area with pre-game entertainment options. Leveling the arena and putting in some sort of arena that leads to an entertainment complex would really create a nice area in between the arena and the Milwaukee Theater. Perhaps that placates Gimbel a bit.

I do like the plan that Trips posted a couple pages back if you do have to keep all the buidlings and try to squeeze something in: