2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

[Kerb Hohl]

What can anyone tell me about his game and progression- i know people have talked him up.

Does anyone have any answers or theories as to why a team with such big success can't recruit better the last two years?

This 2015 class may be one of their best ever.

You put too much stock in the rankings. Bo Ryan gets talented players, always has.

Look - the best players currently/ and formerly on the team were highly ranked players- Nigel was top 100 on everyone's list and was recruited hard by Michigan State. Koenig was on some top ratings and recruited heavily by North Carolina. Dekker was one of the highest rated players Bo ever recruited. Kaminski was a fringe top 100.

I'm going to do this only because you had called out the spelling of someone else on the Packer board and just botched another name like 5 posts back...there is a god damn 'y' at the end of Kaminsky.

A lot of these guys were late risers. Hard to see a Dekker or Kaminsky in the list of recruits (kinda goes without saying). Pritzl could be Brust, Illikainen could be Nankivil (maybe Leuer but he's shorter), Charlie Thomas is kinda boom/bust, Van Vliet would be a very poor man's Kaminsky, and it's hard to pin a comparison on Iverson. He could be Rob Wilson or he could be a weird mix of Tucker/Krabbenhoft where he is a do-everything point SF.

In all, the class may be the best simply because it may produce 4 high-level starters, but I doubt it produces a 1st round pick like the aforementioned guys.

[SpursNBucks]

What's everyone's prediction on a starting lineup?

You got me hooked on the Happ hype.

Koenig-Hill
Showalter-Pritzl
Brown-Illikainen
Hayes
Happ

I think two frosh have to be key backups: Alex Illikainen at F and Brevin Pritzl at the 2G. I think Pritzl could even be the starting 2G- I know rare for a Frosh to start with a Bo team, but he seems like a scrappy player in the mold of Gasser. As far as the latest addition - I would redshirt him and have him work in the weight room

[sidney moncrief]

I doubt Van Vliet redshirts. He'll already be 20 when the season starts and he plays a position that was looking thin and lacking depth before he joined. I'm sure Bo brought him here with intentions of playing right away and filling that hole.

[SpursNBucks]

A lot of these guys were late risers. Hard to see a Dekker or Kaminsky in the list of recruits (kinda goes without saying). Pritzl could be Brust, Illikainen could be Nankivil (maybe Leuer but he's shorter), Charlie Thomas is kinda boom/bust, Van Vliet would be a very poor man's Kaminsky, and it's hard to pin a comparison on Iverson. He could be Rob Wilson or he could be a weird mix of Tucker/Krabbenhoft where he is a do-everything point SF.

In all, the class may be the best simply because it may produce 4 high-level starters, but I doubt it produces a 1st round pick like the aforementioned guys.

A little confused by the whole post here - your meaning the latest class (lacking a ESPN top 100) are late risers?

I don't study high school bball players, just look at what the people who do it for a living have to say. The Badgers best players: Dekker, Frank, Hayes, and Koenig were all highly rated players - and no coincidence it was the reason the Badgers had the best squad they had - well maybe ever. transfer Uthoff was the lone 2011- top 100 recruit, he's going to be on a lot of preseason All-Big 10 lists.

Bo gets the most out of average recruits like Gasser, Dukan, Brown, and Showalter- but these guys are mostly role players. The advantage Bo has is that his players almost always stay all 4 years - so there is a cohesive and experience factor that teams like Kentucky don't have.

Some people get SO defensive over BO and the Badgers if you even hint at any kind criticism = RELAX! I am as big a Badger fan as anyone. I just asked the question before why they don't have more success recruiting - given their recent success. From a ratings stand point the last two years don't look that good, certainly could have been better - given that success. I don't care who they got on the team I will follow them, and firmly believe Bo is one of the best Coaches in college BBall.

[SpursNBucks]

I doubt Van Vliet redshirts. He'll already be 20 when the season starts and he plays a position that was looking thin and lacking depth before he joined. I'm sure Bo brought him here with intentions of playing right away and filling that hole.

The position is super thin - he himself may be even thinner. I didn't know he was 20- what's up with that? UW is the only team that offered him a scholarship- other then the videos against him playing against slow looking short guys - I don't know much about him. I don't think he's going to the NBA - so maybe the age thing isn't a big deal.

The Badgers are going to have to go with a 4 Forward rotation - all those guys in the 6'8" range. Maybe with Hayes strength he gets the assignment against other Cs.

[Kerb Hohl]

A lot of these guys were late risers. Hard to see a Dekker or Kaminsky in the list of recruits (kinda goes without saying). Pritzl could be Brust, Illikainen could be Nankivil (maybe Leuer but he's shorter), Charlie Thomas is kinda boom/bust, Van Vliet would be a very poor man's Kaminsky, and it's hard to pin a comparison on Iverson. He could be Rob Wilson or he could be a weird mix of Tucker/Krabbenhoft where he is a do-everything point SF.

In all, the class may be the best simply because it may produce 4 high-level starters, but I doubt it produces a 1st round pick like the aforementioned guys.

A little confused by the whole post here - your meaning the latest class (lacking a ESPN top 100) are late risers?

I don't study high school bball players, just look at what the people who do it for a living have to say. The Badgers best players: Dekker, Frank, Hayes, and Koenig were all highly rated players - and no coincidence it was the reason the Badgers had the best squad they had - well maybe ever. transfer Uthoff was the lone 2011- top 100 recruit, he's going to be on a lot of preseason All-Big 10 lists.

Bo gets the most out of average recruits like Gasser, Dukan, Brown, and Showalter- but these guys are mostly role players. The advantage Bo has is that his players almost always stay all 4 years - so there is a cohesive and experience factor that teams like Kentucky don't have.

Some people get SO defensive over BO and the Badgers if you even hint at any kind criticism = RELAX! I am as big a Badger fan as anyone. I just asked the question before why they don't have more success recruiting - given their recent success. From a ratings stand point the last two years don't look that good, certainly could have been better - given that success. I don't care who they got on the team I will follow them, and firmly believe Bo is one of the best Coaches in college BBall.

I think you completely misinterpreted the post. I was mostly agreeing with you.

-There is likely no 1st team All American in this class.
-However, there may be 3 or 4 guys that are as valuable as an All Big Ten team in their future. By sheer volume, it may be a very good class.

-Pritzl is actually ranked higher than Koenig was. Koenig got early interest from Kansas, UNC, etc. but those teams dropped off a little bit late and Koenig's ranking dropped. 247 had him 66th but overall he was 113th. Pritzl is 87th/69th.

-Not that I'm expecting Illikainen to surpass Hayes, but he is ranked slightly higher than Hayes (both just outside the top 100).

This class actually compares nicely to 2013 (which was an incredible class). You'd have to assume that Pritzl/Illikainen are as good as Koenig/Hayes (huge leap to assume that, but they are ranked around the same or better) and then the depth of Thomas/Van Vliet/Iverson is better than Hill/Dearring/Vitto.

[Kerb Hohl]

I doubt Van Vliet redshirts. He'll already be 20 when the season starts and he plays a position that was looking thin and lacking depth before he joined. I'm sure Bo brought him here with intentions of playing right away and filling that hole.

The position is super thin - he himself may be even thinner. I didn't know he was 20- what's up with that? UW is the only team that offered him a scholarship- other then the videos against him playing against slow looking short guys - I don't know much about him. I don't think he's going to the NBA - so maybe the age thing isn't a big deal.

The Badgers are going to have to go with a 4 Forward rotation - all those guys in the 6'8" range. Maybe with Hayes strength he gets the assignment against other Cs.

He visited St. Mary's and Oklahoma State as well. Foreign guys can be hit or miss but their offer sheets don't always tell the story because they decide to come over late in the game.

Happ will draw the other centers probably with Brown, then Hayes, Van Vliet, then Illikainen in the pecking order. Van Vliet will be in that mix but he and Brown will get their chances but be dicey against other centers unless Brown takes a leap.

[LUKE23]

Actually no, you're pretty off on this SpursBucks.

Dekker is the only guy in the top 75 RSCI for the latest round of players (he was #19). Hayes was 154, Koenig was 79, and Kaminksy was unranked. With Bo, it's really true rankings don't matter. Granted, they want the higher ranked guys, but you can pretty much take to the bank that the guys Bo lands will finish way ahead of their RSCI projection when compared against their peers. Two reasons behind it: Wisconsin's recruiters are far better at identifying underrated players than most schools, and Bo and his staff get 100% of the ceiling out of most players they land.

[sidney moncrief]

I doubt Van Vliet redshirts. He'll already be 20 when the season starts and he plays a position that was looking thin and lacking depth before he joined. I'm sure Bo brought him here with intentions of playing right away and filling that hole.

The position is super thin - he himself may be even thinner. I didn't know he was 20- what's up with that? UW is the only team that offered him a scholarship- other then the videos against him playing against slow looking short guys - I don't know much about him. I don't think he's going to the NBA - so maybe the age thing isn't a big deal.

The Badgers are going to have to go with a 4 Forward rotation - all those guys in the 6'8" range. Maybe with Hayes strength he gets the assignment against other Cs.

He'll be 20 because he was playing professionally in Belgium before coming to UW.

Wisconsin is not the only school to offer him a scholarship. Oklahoma State, Washington State, and St. Mary's were the three others.

"I talked to the coaching staff several times and the plan is for me to come in and immediately play and help the team," said Van Vliet. "It's not like I am redshirting or sitting on the bench for a lot of time...I definitely know I have to get stronger. I know I have work to do, but I can't wait to get started and start a new chapter in my life. I know strength is a very important part of the college basketball game."

http://wisconsin.scout.com/story/1544993-a-dream-commitment-for-andy-van-vliet-to-uw?s=193

He says right here that he's not redshirting and the staff wants him to contribute immediately. He knows he has to bulk up as well. I'm sure that will be one of his top priorities over the summer. I'm not overly concerned about that.

[Newz]

Actually no, you're pretty off on this SpursBucks.

Dekker is the only guy in the top 75 RSCI for the latest round of players (he was #19). Hayes was 154, Koenig was 79, and Kaminksy was unranked. With Bo, it's really true rankings don't matter. Granted, they want the higher ranked guys, but you can pretty much take to the bank that the guys Bo lands will finish way ahead of their RSCI projection when compared against their peers. Two reasons behind it: Wisconsin's recruiters are far better at identifying underrated players than most schools, and Bo and his staff get 100% of the ceiling out of most players they land.

That and I think Bo is a 'system coach'... which seems kind of rare in basketball. Usually talent is just talent. But as opposed to recruiting talent and then trying to build a system around that talent/adjust to the talent... Bo just recruits guys that fit into his system.

It's smart too. I honestly think there is a good argument (and I am a Marquette guy, not a UW guy) that Bo Ryan is the best coach in college basketball. The guy is an absolute stud.

[Kerb Hohl]

It's smart too. I honestly think there is a good argument (and I am a Marquette guy, not a UW guy) that Bo Ryan is the best coach in college basketball. The guy is an absolute stud.

I think as an Xs and Os guy, he's top 5, top 3, maybe #1 without any doubt. Recruiting is half of the game, and he's improved at getting more talent into his system, but if you include recruiting in, he's obviously not the best. I think guys like Roy Williams and Self can be hacks in the in-game stuff and getting the most out of some of their guys (note: I'm not saying they are completely terrible) but they can recruit really well even if given the advantage of a blue blood. That puts them above Bo given that they are much more likely to win the title year-in-and-year-out.

[Newz]

It's smart too. I honestly think there is a good argument (and I am a Marquette guy, not a UW guy) that Bo Ryan is the best coach in college basketball. The guy is an absolute stud.

I think as an Xs and Os guy, he's top 5, top 3, maybe #1 without any doubt. Recruiting is half of the game, and he's improved at getting more talent into his system, but if you include recruiting in, he's obviously not the best. I think guys like Roy Williams and Self can be hacks in the in-game stuff and getting the most out of some of their guys (note: I'm not saying they are completely terrible) but they can recruit really well even if given the advantage of a blue blood. That puts them above Bo given that they are much more likely to win the title year-in-and-year-out.

Oh, right.

Coach... not recruiter.

[Kerb Hohl]

I was agreeing with you...but "coach" in college bball includes recruiting, of course.

[Newz]

I was agreeing with you...but "coach" in college bball includes recruiting, of course.

I know.

I was just clarifying what I meant. When I said coach I meant purely from a system, motivation, getting the most out of his guys, X's and O's standpoint. Wasn't trying to say recruiter added in on top of that. But I agree if you toss recruiting into the equation then he's likely only in the top 10-15 as opposed to the best.

Obviously everyone loves him now. But there was a time when a lot of people were calling for Bo Ryan to be fired because they never thought he could get the program to the big time and stuff like that. Like I said, I'm not a Wisconsin guy... I do root for them when Marquette gets knocked out or isn't in it... but I was like "Are you people **** nuts? Bo Ryan is amazing.".

[SpursNBucks]

-Pritzl is actually ranked higher than Koenig was. Koenig got early interest from Kansas, UNC, etc. but those teams dropped off a little bit late and Koenig's ranking dropped. 247 had him 66th but overall he was 113th. Pritzl is 87th/69th.

-Not that I'm expecting Illikainen to surpass Hayes, but he is ranked slightly higher than Hayes (both just outside the top 100).

This class actually compares nicely to 2013 (which was an incredible class). You'd have to assume that Pritzl/Illikainen are as good ]as Koenig/Hayes (huge leap to assume that, but they are ranked around the same or better) and then the depth of Thomas/Van Vliet/Iverson is better than Hill/Dearring/Vitto.

I don't know what rankings your looking at, but from what I am (ESPN) your wrong.

Hayes (Top 100 84 rating) I think everyone ranked him higher then Illikainen (80 rating).
Koenig and Pritzl - were closely ranked by the scouting services.

What I look to probably the most is what schools offered scholarships- because they do more homework I would think then the Scouting services.

In the case of Hayes - Ohio State. In the case of Koenig -NC, Duke, and Virginia all offered scholarships.
In the case of Illikainen - Maryland and Indiania top schools Pritzl - Creighton and Marquette

My question remains - why can't UW being a Final 4 and Championship game team back to back - can't land a little better pedigree of player?

I love the Badgers and Bo. I'm not trying to hate, just curious as to why they can't get a better breed of player - it should make Bo's job easier. Why can't they land an occasional 5 star player? The other thing no one talks about (at least publicly) why is it so rare for them to recruit highly ranked black players? You can count them on one hand over the last 20 years.

Again, love the Badgers - make no mistake though they were this kid because during that time slot they did recruit well - Frank, Dekker, Hayes, and Koenig were all highly recruited. Gasser, Dukan, Showalter, and Brown were not highlyy recruited, but became good role players.

[LUKE23]

RSCI is what you should be looking at. It takes ESPN, Scout, and Rivals into account. That is the most widely used metric to rank HS players.

[sidney moncrief]

Isn't ESPN considered the worst of the recruiting services? I thought they had basically given up unless they're trying to make a comeback with that now.

[SpursNBucks]

It's smart too. I honestly think there is a good argument (and I am a Marquette guy, not a UW guy) that Bo Ryan is the best coach in college basketball. The guy is an absolute stud.

I think as an Xs and Os guy, he's top 5, top 3, maybe #1 without any doubt. Recruiting is half of the game, and he's improved at getting more talent into his system, but if you include recruiting in, he's obviously not the best. I think guys like Roy Williams and Self can be hacks in the in-game stuff and getting the most out of some of their guys (note: I'm not saying they are completely terrible) but they can recruit really well even if given the advantage of a blue blood. That puts them above Bo given that they are much more likely to win the title year-in-and-year-out.

I think Bo's strength is his system (they never foul a lot or turnover the ball- usually neat the top at both). I don't think it is within Bo to be "the recruiter guy" - he needs to have an assistant that can do that. Crean realized that and always has assistants that can recruit = the main reason he brought in Buzz for his ability at the time to get into Texas. You have some coaches like Calipari and Petino that still recruit famously. Coach K has been relying more on assistants - like Woj had been doing.

[Kerb Hohl]

ESPN is by far the worst rating.

I personally use 247, which is decent in its own rating, but has something similar to RSCI as well.

Going back to Pritzl - Michigan and UNC started talking to him right before he locked it up.

Iverson had only Tennessee and WVU, but once he did the things that Bo and staff asked (improve his jumper, etc.) he started to hear from Ohio State.

[zmanishere11]

I love this 5 man recruiting class.

Iverson reminds me of Alando Tucker (undersized but plays big and does everything)

Pritzl looks a lot like Koenig

But I think the foreign kid ends up making or breaking this class when it comes to it's ability to again compete for a national championship.

I know everyone expects us to take a giant step back next year, but Hayes and Koenig were big parts of our success this year. If Happ is as good as advertised, and we can get some of the freshman to play well, I don't think we necessarily get rolled by Maryland, or anyone else for that matter.