2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

[nmeurett]

Coach K also being the head coach of team USA has been huge for recruiting. He has access to these younger HS who play for team USA which to me is not really fair but it is what it is.

[HaroldinGMinor]

There are really only a handful of teams that can recruit all over the country with consistency. Call them "Bluebloods" if you want but that's the reality. Everyone else might get a national guy once in a while but they can't do it on a regular basis like the big boys.

[mattg]

Tyus's parents played in college. Jahlil is related to emeka okafor. Justice Winslow was friends with those two via AAU and it was a package deal. Jabari is about as atypical of a recruit as you find, a black Mormon from Chicago.

Aside from that let's look at some other recent duke players. You've got guys like austin rivers, Seth curry, Nolan smith, Quinn cook, plumlees, Kyle singler, and Gerald Henderson, etc whose family all played high level basketball or they have some connection(like the Nolan smith/cook thing). Then you have the Grayson Allen's or Jon scheyers of the world who come from a well off family. There is clearly a certain type of kid that duke recruits, and there is nothing wrong with that. Duke simply does not recruit kids from poor backgrounds or 'street' kids, they value a strong, supportive family backing. That's how they're able to recruit talent under the constraints of tough academics, an excuse that used to be constantly made for wisconsin and why they couldn't recruit bigger name players.

[SpursNBucks]

Yes - facilities. Tradition, ability to get to the NBA, etc. also help. It's possible that a lot of these guys are getting paid, but having top dollar to pay assistants that can say "I will get you to the NBA and a top 5 pick" and incredible facilities are some of the main factors.

What's wrong with the Kohl Center and the facilities they have - with the social media and how programs have gotten busted - I don't buy and of the $ argument. I don't know about Assistants - if they get 2nd tier guys then UW should pony up- I know there was mention of that with UW football - but the staffs are so much smaller with BBall-- not really buying that. I do feel that the one and doners are more interested in playing for a team with a rep for one and doners every year - that I am buying.

[SpursNBucks]

You also have to look at brand recognition. When someone says university of Wisconsin most people think of the football program. When you say Duke university you think basketball (I wouldnt be surprised if people did not know they even had a football team) Then you also have the access to all the alumni in the NBA which definitely helps. Look at Marquette if Wade does not blow up I do not think they would have the success they have had since. Also Duke is always on national television and Wisconsin isnt that is another huge recruiting tool.

I don't think they think of just football - Hell when has the football program last played for the Championship or been in the top 4. Everyone know who Bo is - they had the Wooden Award winner- Basketball's version of the Heisman. You can isolate Duke in BBall- because Coach K is BBall royalty. Mich State - has been good at both - recruits well at both. Mich and Ohio State - same thing.

UW was on National TV a lot, just about every game - down here in TX- You can buy the Big 10, but they were on the big stage constantly. Look, I know UW wont be Duke recruiting. Can't they be at least rated in the top 11-20 rated?

[HaroldinGMinor]

Tyus's parents played in college. Jahlil is related to emeka okafor. Justice Winslow was friends with those two via AAU and it was a package deal. Jabari is about as atypical of a recruit as you find, a black Mormon from Chicago.

Aside from that let's look at some other recent duke players. You've got guys like austin rivers, Seth curry, Nolan smith, Quinn cook, plumlees, Kyle singler, and Gerald Henderson, etc whose family all played high level basketball or they have some connection(like the Nolan smith/cook thing). Then you have the Grayson Allen's or Jon scheyers of the world who come from a well off family. There is clearly a certain type of kid that duke recruits, and there is nothing wrong with that. Duke simply does not recruit kids from poor backgrounds or 'street' kids, they value a strong, supportive family backing. That's how they're able to recruit talent under the constraints of tough academics, an excuse that used to be constantly made for wisconsin and why they couldn't recruit bigger name players.

I don't understand what Jahlil being related to Emeka has to do with anything. And what's Kyrie Irving's connection? Or the two five star recruits they have coming in next year Ingram and Thornton?

Duke can get all the "smart" kids that are also outstanding basketball players because there isn't aren't a whole lot of blueblood programs that can tout the academics like they can.

[Kerb Hohl]

Yes - facilities. Tradition, ability to get to the NBA, etc. also help. It's possible that a lot of these guys are getting paid, but having top dollar to pay assistants that can say "I will get you to the NBA and a top 5 pick" and incredible facilities are some of the main factors.

What's wrong with the Kohl Center and the facilities they have - with the social media and how programs have gotten busted - I don't buy and of the $ argument. I don't know about Assistants - if they get 2nd tier guys then UW should pony up- I know there was mention of that with UW football - but the staffs are so much smaller with BBall-- not really buying that. I do feel that the one and doners are more interested in playing for a team with a rep for one and doners every year - that I am buying.

The Kohl Center and their practice facilities are nice - maybe 20th-30th best...and hey, that's about their level of recruiting in both sports!

They do spend a fairly high amount but also are dealing with not the best recruiting state/area, no extremely long history, and less desire to take risks on lesser students.

All of that coupled together and one may guess they are 20th-30th best. Over the past 15 years combined, Bo has probably lifted them to 10th-15th best on the whole (depending on how you judge).

The money usually equals performance due to facilities, recruiting, etc. (within reason of course).

[SpursNBucks]

Yes - facilities. Tradition, ability to get to the NBA, etc. also help. It's possible that a lot of these guys are getting paid, but having top dollar to pay assistants that can say "I will get you to the NBA and a top 5 pick" and incredible facilities are some of the main factors.

What's wrong with the Kohl Center and the facilities they have - with the social media and how programs have gotten busted - I don't buy and of the $ argument. I don't know about Assistants - if they get 2nd tier guys then UW should pony up- I know there was mention of that with UW football - but the staffs are so much smaller with BBall-- not really buying that. I do feel that the one and doners are more interested in playing for a team with a rep for one and doners every year - that I am buying.

The Kohl Center and their practice facilities are nice - maybe 20th-30th best...and hey, that's about their level of recruiting in both sports!

They do spend a fairly high amount but also are dealing with not the best recruiting state/area, no extremely long history, and less desire to take risks on lesser students.

All of that coupled together and one may guess they are 20th-30th best. Over the past 15 years combined, Bo has probably lifted them to 10th-15th best on the whole (depending on how you judge).

The money usually equals performance due to facilities, recruiting, etc. (within reason of course).

They lose out even on the in-state players - Stone, Looney, the kid that played well today 5-5 from NC. They do seem to have a pretty good handle on getting the tall white guys. I don't think they even recruit consistently in the top 20-30.

Gave it some thought and I think these are the factors:

* Don't play an up-tempo game the highly ranked (mostly black) athletes want to play for
* Don't have a history of one- and done players - simple truth is many of these kids are just about show me the money.
* Bo doesn't seem to guarantee playing time to Freshmen
* I don't think he has good/great recruiters on his staff
* I am not even sure he makes much effort to go after the highly ranked players. I think they are satisfied with Tier 2 and 3 players on the whole that will be there 4 years, work hard on D, and buy into his system.

I think the national exposure would help him with some white upper level players who are maybe Freshmen, Sophomores, or Juniors. That's just a hunch.

I think this past year was kind of an anomaly - Dekker - one of his highest rated recruits ever stayed for his JR, year. Frank came back and improved on what he had done the year before and became the Wooden award winner. Koenig and Hayes turned out to be one of his best recruiting classes of all-time. I think all 5 of these players gets drafted - Hayes might even go in this coming year. Gasser (because of injury still there) and Dukan were key role players. The stars were aligned perfectly for them this past year.

[Kerb Hohl]

Dekker coming at all was an anomaly. He was a 3-star recruit that was a Badger fan growing up that in his junior/senior year after committing, grew into a high 4/low 5 star recruit. Keeping the big dogs at home doesn't happen all that often. Marquette getting Ellenson (his dad was a UW/Marquette guy), Dekker staying (above-mentioned reasons), etc. are usually the way they keep them. Happens in Minnesota, Illinois (kinda different sort of mess there), and other places that aren't Ohio State or Indiana.

I think that Michigan State was the first to jump into the arms race of practice arenas and private jet recruiting and Izzo has had a leg up all along.

Anyways, for the most part, it's not like football. Wisconsin may lose a 5-star offensive lineman this year to Notre Dame or Michigan (kinda a coin flip it sounds like right now) but otherwise, I'd say when 4/5 star talent is in-state, they keep it in-state 90% of the time. In basketball, there is more of a gravitation towards the money and tradition schools. Happens in almost every state that isn't Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Kansas, or North Carolina. And even in some of those states, the talent is overflowing and guys like Nigel Hayes end up spilling over into other states...but they normally keep their own studs.

[neiLz]

Another thing to remember about recruiting rankings is that some guys are rated highly BECAUSE they've committed to play for a blue blood, not the other way around. If a kid isn't getting much attention and then a blue blood swoops in with an offer, you see them shoot up the rankings. They're still the same player as they were when they had a middling rating but now the presence of a top school on their offer sheet makes them look more attractive. If Wisconsin offers that same kid, it's not going to have the same impact.

This is a great point. Duke gets these commits and all of a sudden they are top ranked prospects... look at marshal plumlee. guy sucks but was considered a top 100 guy.

[xTitan]

Another thing to remember about recruiting rankings is that some guys are rated highly BECAUSE they've committed to play for a blue blood, not the other way around. If a kid isn't getting much attention and then a blue blood swoops in with an offer, you see them shoot up the rankings. They're still the same player as they were when they had a middling rating but now the presence of a top school on their offer sheet makes them look more attractive. If Wisconsin offers that same kid, it's not going to have the same impact.

This is a great point. Duke gets these commits and all of a sudden they are top ranked prospects... look at marshal plumlee. guy sucks but was considered a top 100 guy.

This really doesn't happen in basketball because of AAU and the fact so much information is out on most kids, especially the top level guys. This practice is very prevalent in football, where there are so many athletes and not nearly as much information.

[mattg]

Another thing to remember about recruiting rankings is that some guys are rated highly BECAUSE they've committed to play for a blue blood, not the other way around. If a kid isn't getting much attention and then a blue blood swoops in with an offer, you see them shoot up the rankings. They're still the same player as they were when they had a middling rating but now the presence of a top school on their offer sheet makes them look more attractive. If Wisconsin offers that same kid, it's not going to have the same impact.

This is a great point. Duke gets these commits and all of a sudden they are top ranked prospects... look at marshal plumlee. guy sucks but was considered a top 100 guy.

Plumlee was ranked highly because he had two older brothers who were legit players. And duke obviously targets guys with a basketball family pedigree of some kind, they love coaches sons, ex-nba players sons, former college players sons, brothers of nba players, etc.

And like titanx said, in basketball guys don't shoot up rankings because they committed somewhere, just doesn't play out like that. It's worthwhile to look at which schools recruited a kid though. Bronson Koenig for example, 4 star like 50 something rated overall in his class. But if you look at the schools that recruited him, UNC, UW, Kansas, etc, all Have great coaches. If a bunch of really good coaches want a guy, chances are he's really good or underrated by recruiting services who rate almost entirely based upon AAU.

[HaroldinGMinor]

Another thing to remember about recruiting rankings is that some guys are rated highly BECAUSE they've committed to play for a blue blood, not the other way around. If a kid isn't getting much attention and then a blue blood swoops in with an offer, you see them shoot up the rankings. They're still the same player as they were when they had a middling rating but now the presence of a top school on their offer sheet makes them look more attractive. If Wisconsin offers that same kid, it's not going to have the same impact.

This is a great point. Duke gets these commits and all of a sudden they are top ranked prospects... look at marshal plumlee. guy sucks but was considered a top 100 guy.

Plumlee was ranked highly because he had two older brothers who were legit players. And duke obviously targets guys with a basketball family pedigree of some kind, they love coaches sons, ex-nba players sons, former college players sons, brothers of nba players, etc.

You just described most upper D1 college players. On UW alone - Jackson's dad was ex NBA, Dekker's dad was a high school coach, Kaminsky's dad played in college (uncle at Northwestern), Showalter's dad is a coach, Dukan's dad is an NBA scout. I think Duke simply targets elite players that are good people as well.

[Badgerlander]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/marquette- ... ge-hauser/

Marquette on Sunday landed two players.

Andrew Rowsey, a 5-foot-10 sophomore point guard from UNC-Asheville, announced his transfer from Marquette. One of the leading scorers in the Big South Conference, he averaged 19.2 points, 2.8 rebounds and 2.9 assists last season.


Rowsey join Henry Ellenson, Traci Carter, Haanif Cheatham, Matt Heldt and Sacar Anim in Marquette’s 2015 class.

Also on Sunday, Sam Hauser, a 6-6 2016 small forward from Stevens Point (WI) Area Senior, committed to the Golden Eagles after a weekend visit.

[MickeyDavis]

I liked what I saw from Hauser in the tournament. Good get for MU

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Hauser is going to be a nice addition for Wojo. I still have no idea why Bo didn't even sniff around.

[Bernman]

Hauser is going to be a nice addition for Wojo. I still have no idea why Bo didn't even sniff around.

They did show interest the last month, but never offered because of only having one scholarship available for 2016 right now, and having higher players on their board to potentially fill it like Rowan. They can be in position to be picky coming off back to back Final Fours and with so much time left. I personally had my doubts about Hauser due to the lack of athleticism. I could maybe overlook it if he proved himself against big-time aau opposition or he was 6'8"+. But he didn't, and isn't. So I agreed with Bucky slow playing him. If he didn't want to wait, so be it. Good luck to the kid at Marquette.

[PkrsBcksGphsMqt]

Didn't know you guys only have one scholarship open. That definitely makes sense then.

[El Duderino]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/marquette- ... ge-hauser/

Marquette on Sunday landed two players.

Andrew Rowsey, a 5-foot-10 sophomore point guard from UNC-Asheville, announced his transfer from Marquette. One of the leading scorers in the Big South Conference, he averaged 19.2 points, 2.8 rebounds and 2.9 assists last season.


Rowsey join Henry Ellenson, Traci Carter, Haanif Cheatham, Matt Heldt and Sacar Anim in Marquette’s 2015 class.

Also on Sunday, Sam Hauser, a 6-6 2016 small forward from Stevens Point (WI) Area Senior, committed to the Golden Eagles after a weekend visit.

What a stark difference between the type of players Wojo is recruiting compared to Buzz. Buzz generally went after athletes who sometimes needed skill development while Wojo going after lesser athletes, but not as raw skill wise.

[xTitan]

Hauser is going to be a nice addition for Wojo. I still have no idea why Bo didn't even sniff around.

I think Bo has realized over time that the 3 spot needs to be better athletically, I think he'd go shorter as long as that position will be quick enough to defend. I am hoping Bo realizes that the Tim Jarmusz of the world simply can't cut it if you want to contend for a title. From what I have seen of Hauser lately, he appears to be taller than 6'6", but not quick footed. Wojo is also looking at Hauser's younger brother, who could easily be the best Hauser in the family.