2015-16 UW Badger Basketball Discussion Thread

Turk Nowitzki · Post #281 » by **Turk Nowitzki** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:59 am

I mean, I never bought the "undefeated" and "going to run away with the Big Ten" hype. Just remembering the bad stretches and ups and downs of our conference season last year was enough to know how stupid that kind of talk was. I guess we see how important Kaminsky is to this team.

Sky Bucks · Post #282 » by **Sky Bucks** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:05 am

Not to concerned with the loss. Took Rutgers to shoot out of their minds and Wisconsin missing two important pieces and its not like they were going to win out anyway

LUKE23 · Post #283 » by **LUKE23** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:23 am

Horrible loss. How many wide open 3's did they miss?

Johnlac1 · Post #284 » by **Johnlac1** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:52 am

It very much look like the Badgers tightened up. Even with the missed free throws, too many outside shots and inability to stop Rutgers from getting to the basket. In the last ten minutes Rutgers scored a ton of layups or close in shots. Plus, they made most of their foul shots. I think Bo better think about zoning it up at times.

midranger · Post #285 » by **midranger** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:49 am

It would be nice if Dekker would ever grow a pair of balls.

HurricaneKid · Post #286 » by **HurricaneKid** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:15 am

Didn't see the game and am horrified at the result. Is Trey OK? How bad was the injury?

They weren't going to win out but this is a terrible loss and will impact seeding. This team has been really disappointing to me. They haven't played a fraction as well as they ended the season last year. Outside of Nigel I have been disappointed with pretty much the entire squad.

RayRayJones · Post #287 » by **RayRayJones** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:40 pm

HurricaneKid wrote:They weren't going to win out but this is a terrible loss and will impact seeding.

Kentucky and Virginia seem like a lock to be #1s. Gonzaga could very well win out with the weak WCC. Nova will likely lose a game in the Big East. Duke plays Virginia and Louisville and UNC twice still. I don't think our loss affects seeding for the Tourny at all. We're still a near lock for a #2 at the worst. If we can get past Maryland on the road, I think the Badgers will be heavily in the convo for #1 by that time.

Mags FTW · Post #288 » by **Mags FTW** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Jackson has a broken foot. Out 6 weeks.

Kerb Hohl · Post #289 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:31 pm

I think I stand with most people on the basis that Koenig is the better player. That said, they only have 3 good guards for the guard rotation and now it's 2. That's what blows.

KidA24 · Post #290 » by **KidA24** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:54 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:I think I stand with most people on the basis that Koenig is the better player. That said, they only have 3 good guards for the guard rotation and now it's 2. That's what blows.

Exactly. Gonna see a lot of Showalter going forward.

Although, who knows, Bo might even try playing Dekker at the 2 a little and get more minutes out of Dukkan.

buckboy · Post #291 » by **buckboy** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:42 pm

I've still never seen a decent argument for Koenig being better than Jackson. He will be but he isn't now. I don't think it's even close. Particularly defrnsively. Both struggle with the quick, penetrating type guards but Jackson is a much better overall defender. Offensively is maybe a wash, but I think that's pretty generous to Koenig.

This injury is going to hurt. 28 minutes of Jackson and 16 of Koenig is way better than 28 minutes of Koenig and 16 of Showalter. Yuck.

Johnlac1 · Post #292 » by **Johnlac1** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:03 pm

buckboy wrote:I've still never seen a decent argument for Koenig being better than Jackson. He will be but he isn't now. I don't think it's even close. Particularly defrnsively. Both struggle with the quick, penetrating type guards but Jackson is a much better overall defender. Offensively is maybe a wash, but I think that's pretty generous to Koenig.

This injury is going to hurt. 28 minutes of Jackson and 16 of Koenig is way better than 28 minutes of Koenig and 16 of Showalter. Yuck.

Overall it's pretty close... Jackson is the better defender, Koenig is definitely ahead offensively. Koenig is a better shooter, passer, and has better vision. Jackson is not a bad off. player.... just not as good as Koenig. Jackson starts because he's a tougher defensive player and because he's a senior.

xTitan · Post #293 » by **xTitan** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:06 pm

The loss of Jackson is huge, UW now has 2 guards, major drop off, Showalter is a mid major talent and they really only have 1 true ball handler on the roster.

Bernman · Post #294 » by **Bernman** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:28 am

The 4th guard is indeed a player of importance, when one injury means he becomes the 3rd. Burn that shirt, burn that shirt....

Kerb Hohl · Post #295 » by **Kerb Hohl** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:07 pm

Bernman wrote:The 4th guard is indeed a player of importance, when one injury means he becomes the 3rd. Burn that shirt, burn that shirt....

Whose shirt, though? Hill? I don't think he's that much of an upgrade from Showalter...

buckboy · Post #296 » by **buckboy** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 7:18 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:
Bernman wrote:The 4th guard is indeed a player of importance, when one injury means he becomes the 3rd. Burn that shirt, burn that shirt....

Whose shirt, though? Hill? I don't think he's that much of an upgrade from Showalter...

Agree. According to some reports, Hill looks great in practice, but we've all heard that before. Most notably about George Marshall.

Bernman · Post #297 » by **Bernman** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:19 pm

Counter to the football team, nearly every scholarship player on the basketball team has looked more capable then their walk-on counterparts. The lone exception that I can think of Clayton Hanson. Hopefully that Schlundt kid pans out. However, I'll take my chances with the scholarship kid we haven't seen much of yet, but we know at least has quickness and handling from last year, and is anecdotally competitive from this year.

From his POV too, I really don't see the impetus to stay redshirted anymore. He'd get almost the entire conference season, where we are contenders to win the league and subsequently national championship, to back up both guard spots and prove he's worthy of being in the rotation at the end of this big year and going forward. I thought the reason he redshirted was he wouldn't get many meaningful minutes this year. Well now he will.

El Duderino · Post #298 » by **El Duderino** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:24 pm

Kerb Hohl wrote:I think I stand with most people on the basis that Koenig is the better player. That said, they only have 3 good guards for the guard rotation and now it's 2. That's what blows.

One thing Jackson does better than Koeing is beat other PG's off the dribble to score or pass off the dribble in the paint. Koeing won't make as many annoying turnovers, but so far at least, most of his scoring only comes via jump shots. There hasn't been many times i can recall him beating a defender off the dribble to get into the paint the either score or distribute like Jackson does. The Purdue game being a prime example of where Jackson got some key baskets off the dribble drive late.

I don't know if that is something which Bo has frowned upon with Koeing so that's why he rarely attacks defenders off the dribble to get into the paint and now that he'll be playing big minutes, we'll see more of it. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

El Duderino · Post #299 » by **El Duderino** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:40 pm

Johnlac1 wrote:
buckboy wrote:I've still never seen a decent argument for Koenig being better than Jackson. He will be but he isn't now. I don't think it's even close. Particularly defrnsively. Both struggle with the quick, penetrating type guards but Jackson is a much better overall defender. Offensively is maybe a wash, but I think that's pretty generous to Koenig.

This injury is going to hurt. 28 minutes of Jackson and 16 of Koenig is way better than 28 minutes of Koenig and 16 of Showalter. Yuck.

Overall it's pretty close... Jackson is the better defender, Koenig is definitely ahead offensively. Koenig is a better shooter, passer, and has better vision. Jackson is not a bad off. player.... just not as good as Koenig. Jackson starts because he's a tougher defensive player and because he's a senior.

I don't buy that Bo starts Jackson because he's a senior. Bo has shown many times that he'll play an underclassman a lot of minutes, even as a freshman if that guy in Bo's eyes deserves the minutes over a junior or senior.

Sure, Bo is like most coaches in that if he feels the talent gap is really close between two players, he'll defer to the junior/senior over the freshman/sophomore, but if that underclassman is the clear better player in his eyes, Bo will play that guy a lot from the get go. He simply likes Jackson more as a player than many Badgers fans do given as evidenced by how many minutes he's given Traevon the last three years while at the same time lots of fans have been complaining about Jackson.

Johnlac1 · Post #300 » by **Johnlac1** » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:31 am

El Duderino wrote:
Johnlac1 wrote:
buckboy wrote:I've still never seen a decent argument for Koenig being better than Jackson. He will be but he isn't now. I don't think it's even close. Particularly defrnsively. Both struggle with the quick, penetrating type guards but Jackson is a much better overall defender. Offensively is maybe a wash, but I think that's pretty generous to Koenig.

This injury is going to hurt. 28 minutes of Jackson and 16 of Koenig is way better than 28 minutes of Koenig and 16 of Showalter. Yuck.

Overall it's pretty close... Jackson is the better defender, Koenig is definitely ahead offensively. Koenig is a better shooter, passer, and has better vision. Jackson is not a bad off. player.... just not as good as Koenig. Jackson starts because he's a tougher defensive player and because he's a senior.

I don't buy that Bo starts Jackson because he's a senior. Bo has shown many times that he'll play an underclassman a lot of minutes, even as a freshman if that guy in Bo's eyes deserves the minutes over a junior or senior.

Sure, Bo is like most coaches in that if he feels the talent gap is really close between two players, he'll defer to the junior/senior over the freshman/sophomore, but if that underclassman is the clear better player in his eyes, Bo will play that guy a lot from the get go. He simply likes Jackson more as a player than many Badgers fans do given as evidenced by how many minutes he's given Traevon the last three years while at the same time lots of fans have been complaining about Jackson.

My intent was that I think Ryan views Jackson and Koenig as about equal. I don't think that Koenig is overall better than Jackson, although his ceiling is higher. I'm not in the group who believe Jackson is a negative. He's been a key player for the Badgers for two seasons.
As has been stated, Jackson is the tougher-better def. player, Koenig is the better off player. In the current situation where the Badgers can get off. from their frontline, pts from the guards are sort of a bonus. The loss to Rutgers was an obvious aberration as Kaminsky was missing and Gasser was really off his normal good outside shooting.