PG: wizards beat the bucks

[AussieBuck]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight. He's terrible.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

I'm sorry but if you watch Bucks games and aren't alarmed at Knight's total lack of feel and instincts in the pick and roll, it says something about your basketball IQ too.

it really doesn't. in fact its just the opposite. if you ever quit having such an archaic one dimensional mindset about how a pg is "supposed to play"... then maybe youll get why the other half of the board cracks up that you think nate wolters or kendall marshall is somehow a better answer.

Clever, subtle change of the subject with the "PG supposed to play" stuff that wasn't at issue here. The discussion is about running a pick and roll. And that is what it always was and always will be. Apparently you don't get what that entails, since you think Knight is good at it.

he isn't good or bad at it. he runs the p/r like every other young pg usually does. right now hes better at scoring himself out of it than he is setting up his teammates. big deal. you guys act like he kicked you in the nuts because he cant make larry sanders look like Duncan.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight.

yep.... and in every other single possible way they are less capable of playing pg than Brandon knight. and I mean literally EVERY other way knight has them beat.

[breakchains]

it really doesn't. in fact its just the opposite. if you ever quit having such an archaic one dimensional mindset about how a pg is "supposed to play"... then maybe youll get why the other half of the board cracks up that you think nate wolters or kendall marshall is somehow a better answer.

Clever, subtle change of the subject with the "PG supposed to play" stuff that wasn't at issue here. The discussion is about running a pick and roll. And that is what it always was and always will be. Apparently you don't get what that entails, since you think Knight is good at it.

he isn't good or bad at it. he runs the p/r like every other young pg usually does. right now hes better at scoring himself out of it than he is setting up his teammates. big deal. you guys act like he kicked you in the nuts because he cant make larry sanders look like Duncan.

It's not about making Larry Sanders look like Duncan. It's about he himself not understanding timing, spacing, and angles. It's the same reason most of his fast breaks end up a disaster instead of easy points.

[Nate Rocks]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight.

yep.... and in every other single possible way they are less capable of playing pg than Brandon knight. and I mean literally EVERY other way knight has them beat.

You mean things like hitting the open guy on the break, ball movement, not pounding the rock thru the floor, individual defense, court vision, game flow and management?

Come on man, he is our best option because he shares a large part of the scoring burden but either Kendall or Nate have him beat in almost every other category, they just don't have all of them individually and you know that.

I know you get helll bent on making a point, but it makes you look bad when you go to those extremes.

[AussieBuck]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight.

yep.... and in every other single possible way they are less capable of playing pg than Brandon knight. and I mean literally EVERY other way knight has them beat.

In a world where every other way equals scoring and giving on court instructions to much smarter teammates I guess that's true. In reality he's just a scorer in way, way over his head.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight.

yep.... and in every other single possible way they are less capable of playing pg than Brandon knight. and I mean literally EVERY other way knight has them beat.

In reality he's just a scorer in way, way over his head.

you mean thats your reality if you prioritize looking good over winning of course?

[AussieBuck]

WAT

[Aaron It Out]

The thing about Brandon Knight is you can analyze him at different levels and see there's a problem.

You watch him play and you go, "oh, he can score but man he sure does take a lot of bad shots, tries to be a one man offense too often, and he can't seem to hang onto the ball"

Then you can go to some basic stats and see that he has more turnovers than any other point guard in the league.

But it gets really interesting when you dive into the advanced stats, especially the on/off stats which I think we are all pretty familiar with at this point. Those suggest our offense is much, much more productive when he is off the court.

I just don't know how you can argue against all three of those, especially when constantly NOT making any real points and just arguing.

[bucksbrewers3]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight. He's terrible.

and we have zero players capable of rolling

[Badgerlander]

of course hes a pg.

curious what your thoughts are on this

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2010

Lou Williams compared to Brandon Knight thru the same age as Knight is now.

[AussieBuck]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight. He's terrible.

and we have zero players capable of rolling

No we have one guy with catching issues and a terrible PG. Mayo, Bayless, Marshall, Wolters, Zaza, Giannis and Parker have all executed better pick and roll passes this season than Knight is capable of.

[sidney lanier]

of course hes a pg.

curious what your thoughts are on this

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 02&y2=2010

Lou Williams compared to Brandon Knight thru the same age as Knight is now.

Interesting that Knight has 57% more assists per game, playing more minutes, of course, which highlights the different roles—starting PG versus off-the-bench PG, etc. Pretty close per 36 numbers, but again there are asterisks all over the spreadsheet here, including the biggest asterisk of all: team composition. Until and unless you can control for teammate shooting prowess, assist numbers are always conditional and to be taken with a grain of salt. Give John Stockton Larry Sanders instead of Karl Malone and you might wonder whether even he can run a pick and roll.

I think the passing stats at 82games.com are a little more nuanced and useful:

http://www.82games.com/1314/13MIL2.HTM

Even considering the cluster that was your 2013-14 Milwaukee Bucks, Knight's passing stats don't look too bad.

I continue to reserve judgment on Knight both as a PG and a basketball player. Those who consider the statistical record here complete and compelling are IMO jumping to an immoderate conclusion.

[Badgerlander]

per 100 possessions and usage % I don't see how they couldn't possibly be more similar

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

knight turns the ball over too much. that's my main concern. his bad shots I could care less about as long as hes shooting an overall high efficiency and bailing us out late in games with his heroics.

the only real stat im interested in as it would relate to his "pg prowess" is whether the TEAM has a decent ast rate as it compares to the rest of the league. if it does than it means regardless of how he looks... the SYSTEM with knight at pg... is working.

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

We have at least 7 guys more capable of hitting a roll man with a pocket pass than Knight. He's terrible.

and we have zero players capable of rolling

Mayo, Bayless, Marshall, Wolters, Zaza, Giannis and Parker have all executed better pick and roll passes this season than Knight is capable of.

random opinionated exageration as fact ftw.

lets shift the discussion to sanders and im going to start using garbage like this to make assertions that larry sanders isn't capable of playing center because of his defiencies.

[M-C-G]

No real point continuing to debate the merits of Knight. There is nothing that can be said that hasn't already been said a million time on both sides.

It is up to this coaching staff to turn him into a net positive player by finding a role and setting expectations for him. Way too much physical talent and ability to give up on.

He doesn't need to be a perfect player, but he does need to be more consistent, and that part is on him.

[sidney lanier]

per 100 possessions and usage % I don't see how they couldn't possibly be more similar

The problem I have with statistical observations like this is that there are too many embedded assumptions that are "unstatistical." I might find it remarkable that two people have nearly identical shades of brown iris color, but unless I know the normal range of brownness, I might be remarking on something unremarkable.

Similarly, unless you know how compact the data sets are for NBA guards in general, for PGs, for combo and shooting guards, etc., it's hard to say whether apparently close equals unusual correlation. And even if we did understand the central tendency of these data sets, given the asterisk factors I mentioned in my previous post it would be hard to know whether we're observing signal or noise.

[Badgerlander]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU0CuPH7akM[/youtube]

[Badgerlander]

cfgardner ‏@cf_gardner 7m7 minutes ago
Bucks coach Jason Kidd said entire team will attend Bears-Lions game on Thanksgiving Day in Detroit. Team will gather for dinner after.