PG: All Powerful JOB downs Kings

[Newz]

Cleveland couldn't get any free agents to sign there because they made incredibly stupid roster moves and blew their cap room on old, washed up players like Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow, not because it was simply a "small market".

Same thing with Minnesota. They made short sighted moves to surround Garnett with old over-priced vets like Cassell, Sprewell, and Mark Madsen. Then blew the rest on a multi-year deal for Michael Olowakandi. Again, just bad roster management.

Players want to play for winners, but it's not like a guy's going to take a MLE type pay cut to do so. Cleveland sure didn't seem to have a problem coaxing a big name FA this last off-season and convincing Kyrie to re-sign. Why? Because they had Lebron and, this time, cap room.

A good example of a terrible franchise in a small town that just rushed into things because they got over excited is the Pelicans. Got Anthony Davis, knew he'd be a stud... go out and get a bunch of overpaid scrubs.

Bam. That's your Cavs/Timberwolves formula.

[Badgerlander]

First of all, Marshall is younger than Knight AND Wolters.

That fact always amazes me. Marshall just looks like he's 35 and shoots the ball like he dropped in from the 1950's. (Give him some hi-top Converse All Stars and short-shorts and he'd look the part... )

I like Marshall too !

He looks like a vaudeville strongman to me. I think he'd be at home in a unitard under some big spherical barbells.

[Treebeard]

Bam. That's your Cavs/Timberwolves formula.

The Wolves looked really good in Garnett's 2nd? year and Marbury's 1st. They had Tom Gugliotta for the productive 3rd wheel. Then it all fell apart.... They let Gugliotta walk, and the little green worms of jealousy ate Marbury's brain and the whole works crumbled and then they have strung one temporizing move after another since.

Oh yeah, Joe Smith contract fiasco too....

[Thunder Muscle]

I enjoyed this game as well. I thought we were going to get run out of the gym early and really didn't expect a win. We have some shooters that can make up ground quick.

I thought JOB did a good job of holding his own. Cousins is a beast, but man he is always on the verge of a meltdown, lol.

This "team" works well together.

And lastly, I find myself enjoying Sid more. He is so over the top and off base, its getting comical. And he annoys Jim too it seems.

[CanadaBucks]

I don't understand the fans that don't want Knight to play. Knight is the Bucks youngest point guard,

First of all, Marshall is younger than Knight AND Wolters.

and clearly the Bucks most proficient point guard. At any point in the game, Knight is the point guard most likely to succeed overall. He has fewer holes in his game than any of the other three point guards.

His youth is a great asset. He has a higher ceiling than the other three point guards on the Bucks. If he learns to distribute the ball better, he will be an excellent player. Given his combination of youth and talent, it only makes sense to try to develop him.

You keep using the term 'point guard' as if it's just a way to differentiate the different players, much like jersey numbers. It is not that, particularly on some teams. This is one of those teams. The very young Bucks, as they're currently constructed, desperately need someone who plays the position in the exact opposite manner in which Knight plays it.

By his fourth year and given virtually EVERY opportunity to prove that he's 'getting it' when it comes to seeing the game as the necessary type of point guard, he's shown VERY little evidence that it's occurring.

I think a big part of the problem is that Knight is extremely good at certain individual-based parts of the game, as well as being extremely hard-working, handsome, polite, well-spoken, a model citizen, a straight-A student, gracious, etc. In still photographs and interviews or whenever he's doing anything but playing point guard in an actual game, he's like a basketball playing version of James Bond. Women want him and guys want to be like him. You'd want your daughters to marry a guy like him and your sons to grow up and be just like him.


Unfortunately NONE of those traits really mean much in terms of Knight being the right fit at point guard for this particular team.

Those same traits do, however, generally persuade people to give someone like Knight opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to prove that he is becoming what they desperately want him to become. The benefit of the doubt in situations where a lot of evidence points to a bad fit, but it is still somewhat plausible that he's just about to put the pieces together and figure it out. People really have a stronger desire to see 'good guys like Brandon' succeed in life. The world is a better and fairer place when hard-working 'good guys' get rewarded.

And to an extent, they are right to give him an extra chance or two to prove himself as the right fit. But eventually those second chances become: 'We've now invested all of this time/money/game experience/ publicity into him, we simply can't risk letting him walk and have him suddenly get it for another team. Not after we've put so many resources in his development.

The fans, organization, press, etc. that like him so much 'as a person' have lowered their 'basketball standards' to the point that they're completely screwed when the team is leveraged into paying him Kemba Walker money based almost completely on non-point guard relevant criteria. (Something akin to being afraid of walking away from the slot machine that you've poured your whole gambling budget into because 'I just know it's gonna pay off on the next pull of the arm and I couldn't live with myself if somebody else gets my money out of that machine- Now that slot machine has my savings in it and, of course I can't walk away now, etc. etc.).

That's it. Brandon Knight is very likely just a standard-lowerer. IF he ever 'gets it' (BIG IF), it will most likely occur after he's taken another $30-40 million of your team's budget/cap and stunted the development of your real potential superstars because Brandon needed all those minutes of ball-dominating if he was gonna ever become a point guard worthy of the contract we gave him. Sorry. No matter how many times you think "It's gonna be different this time, I can just 'feel' it", it's probably not gonna be different. He's like a brand new Ferrari in your favorite color sitting in your garage. Without an engine.

December comes after August right? younger than nate but not BK

[GHOSTofSIKMA]

Cleveland couldn't get any free agents to sign there because they made incredibly stupid roster moves and blew their cap room on old, washed up players like Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow, not because it was simply a "small market".

Same thing with Minnesota. They made short sighted moves to surround Garnett with old over-priced vets like Cassell, Sprewell, and Mark Madsen. Then blew the rest on a multi-year deal for Michael Olowakandi. Again, just bad roster management.

Players want to play for winners, but it's not like a guy's going to take a MLE type pay cut to do so. Cleveland sure didn't seem to have a problem coaxing a big name FA this last off-season and convincing Kyrie to re-sign. Why? Because they had Lebron and, this time, cap room.

A good example of a terrible franchise in a small town that just rushed into things because they got over excited is the Pelicans. Got Anthony Davis, knew he'd be a stud... go out and get a bunch of overpaid scrubs.

Bam. That's your Cavs/Timberwolves formula.

im not disagreeing with your premise but the pelicans are bad example. they are better then their record. they are good and young and adjusting. soon, just as constructed....theyre gonna be really good.

[VooDoo7]

Cleveland couldn't get any free agents to sign there because they made incredibly stupid roster moves and blew their cap room on old, washed up players like Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow, not because it was simply a "small market".

Same thing with Minnesota. They made short sighted moves to surround Garnett with old over-priced vets like Cassell, Sprewell, and Mark Madsen. Then blew the rest on a multi-year deal for Michael Olowakandi. Again, just bad roster management.

Players want to play for winners, but it's not like a guy's going to take a MLE type pay cut to do so. Cleveland sure didn't seem to have a problem coaxing a big name FA this last off-season and convincing Kyrie to re-sign. Why? Because they had Lebron and, this time, cap room.

A good example of a terrible franchise in a small town that just rushed into things because they got over excited is the Pelicans. Got Anthony Davis, knew he'd be a stud... go out and get a bunch of overpaid scrubs.

Bam. That's your Cavs/Timberwolves formula.

im not disagreeing with your premise but the pelicans are bad example. they are better then their record. they are good and young and adjusting. soon, just as constructed....theyre gonna be really good.

Who are these young players that you're expecting to take the next step that's gonna make the Pelicans "really good"?

Jrue and Tyreke are in their 5th year already. Austin Rivers? No. Jimmer Fredette? Nah.

So who?

[InsideOut]

You need to remember we had multiple all-star Vin Baker to trade that lead us to eventually getting Sam. We don't have that kind of trade asset on this team.

When Cleveland was going to finals with James they couldn't get anyone to sign with them as a FA. Even for a shot at a ring great FAs wouldn't come to Cleveland. Memphis is a piece away and FAs won't look at them. KG had the hardest time getting guys to come to Minny. What player wants to join the Thunder? They can't even get a vet looking for a shot at a ring to sign on (like Payton and Malone did in LA). The facts are a great FA isn't signing with Milwaukee. Best we can ever dream of is an average at best starter. But I guess there is a first time for everything.

I'm fairly confident we could make a move and land someone pretty good. The big problem with Cleveland and Minnesota wasn't that they were small markets... it was that they had horrendous management. They failed with just about every move that they even attempted to make.

OKC cannot get big name players (and really, neither can San Antonio) because they already have a ton of money tied up in their main guys and core players.

The ideal (and likely what is going to have to happen) is the Bucks are going to have to hit on a third star later in the draft like OKC did with Ibaka or SA did with Parker and Manu. Big time picks or acquisitions like that are usually what propel you from being a 'good team' to a 'great team'.

While Cleveland and Minny did have poor management it doesn't change the fact they couldn't get anyone to come to their city. That ended up forcing them to overpay. They were put in a no win situation. Here you have a star and need one more piece to put you over the top. They tried giving that money to great players but none would take it. So at that point you overpay a guy like Larry Hughes or you just sit on the cash and tick the fans off because you aren't brining in anyone to help James/KG carry the load.

I agree those other teams don't have the cap space and that is why I said a vet looking to win a ring like Payton and Malone. A guy willing to take less to get the ring.

I agree they'll need to hit on that 3rd star with a late pick. I just don't like the odds of pulling that off. I'd have loved one more top 7 pick but that won't happen as this team seems to be a team of destiny this year. Last year everything went wrong. This year it is the opposite. We are catching teams with key injuries or on road back to backs. We are winning all these close ones when last year we lost them all. Every year in every sport you have a team that comes out of nowhere as everything seems to go just right. We are that team this year. Think the last 30 games of FTD. I just don't know what else to think. These players just aren't this good. I'm wondering if Kidd has the Skiles affect. The Bucks win 25 and 27 before Skiles and then they start winning an average of around 38. He leaves and they drop to 15 wins. I'm interested to see how this plays out long term as these guys playing .500 ball has the feel of smoke and mirrors.

[ZeppelinPage]

Pelicans are stuck.. They have a bunch of players who will never help Davis get anywhere. They lost all their draft picks, overpaid for injury prone players and instead of building young players on rookie contracts with him they traded their assets and can't build around Davis.

Bucks have young players, cap space, and draft picks.

[InsideOut]

Tradable but not near enough to get us a Sam or Thomas.

When has Hammond EVER traded for great pieces? Almost all the guys he traded for or signed as a FA were mistakes he needed to move the next year. All his great moves and drafts lead to one winning season in six. He is useless.

We traded an injured Terrell Brandon, a Tyrone Hill who did not play well here, Jereld Honeycutt and Elliot Perry for Sam and Tim. I think we have equivalent talent to that package right now.

Also, I've never said Hammond ever has made a great trade (well, I'd call the Knight/Middleton for Jennings trade a clear win) but now he doesn't have Kohl looming over him. He still has to prove himself but I'll allow him to do so, mostly because I have no choice, but also because his recent transaction history (Drafting Giannis, ridding us of Neal/Ridnour [yeah, I know he signed Neal], trading Jennings, getting a 1st for the corpse of Delfino and Miroslav) isn't horrible by any means. So maybe he's getting better.

Edit to say I see PP already covered the Brandon / Hill value.

[InsideOut]

Cleveland couldn't get any free agents to sign there because they made incredibly stupid roster moves and blew their cap room on old, washed up players like Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow, not because it was simply a "small market".

Same thing with Minnesota. They made short sighted moves to surround Garnett with old over-priced vets like Cassell, Sprewell, and Mark Madsen. Then blew the rest on a multi-year deal for Michael Olowakandi. Again, just bad roster management.

Players want to play for winners, but it's not like a guy's going to take a MLE type pay cut to do so. Cleveland sure didn't seem to have a problem coaxing a big name FA this last off-season and convincing Kyrie to re-sign. Why? Because they had Lebron and, this time, cap room.

If my memory is correct I think you are way off. Cleveland offered Redd the MAX. How could they offer him the MAX if they blew all their money on stupid roster moves? The fact is that they had MAX money to spend and couldn't find a single player to take it. That meant they were either forced to spend it on much lesser players or just eat the cash. They figured they had a better chance of winning a title signing lesser players than eating the cash. So tell me, is my memory off or not? Did Cleveland have max money and nobody to take it or didn't they? Minny was the same thing. Nobody wanted to take their cash so they were left with the best players that would. Heck, Starburry came out and said he hated playing in Minny.

If players want to play for winners why didn't Redd take the chance to play for a title contender in Cleveland over a hopeless Bucks team? He took the cash because like most players that and location come before winning. Just like Melo going to a worse NY team and Howard and Paul shooting for the Lakers. If these guys cared about winning they'd have tried to get too an Indiana or Memphis but you know that will never happen due to their location. These guys would rather play for a 30 win LA/NY team than a 50 win Memphis, Minny, Utah...team.

Who was the big FA Cleveland signed? Are you saying James because he wanted to come home? Irving took the cash and the chance to win a title. Truth is Cleveland didn't sign any big name FA. James just wanted to come home.

[Seymour KButter]

I don't understand the fans that don't want Knight to play. Knight is the Bucks youngest point guard,

First of all, Marshall is younger than Knight AND Wolters.

and clearly the Bucks most proficient point guard. At any point in the game, Knight is the point guard most likely to succeed overall. He has fewer holes in his game than any of the other three point guards.

His youth is a great asset. He has a higher ceiling than the other three point guards on the Bucks. If he learns to distribute the ball better, he will be an excellent player. Given his combination of youth and talent, it only makes sense to try to develop him.

Ouch. Totally my bad. I must of misread the dates a couple of weeks ago when I first referenced it. Still, my point was, that for some unknown reason, people just wanna give BK shot after shot after shot to prove himself while others get yanked after one or two mistakes. Even in Kidd's 'everyone plays' system, BK just can't seem to do anything wrong no matter that everyone AND the numbers seem to agree that BK ain't a PG. Especially for this team.
December comes after August right? younger than nate but not BK

[Dobber-16]

Let's not sugar coat things.

No doubt. We played a horrible team.

Kings remind me of those Bucks teams over the past decade that Paschke and Herb thought were good or should be good but really sucked.

*Don't mean to dump on the Kings. Again like the Kings fans and they are my favorite west coast LP team the past decade. But that organization is a dumpster fire.

Then how are they fortunate to get a new arena built with public funds?

[Dimitraa]

Cleveland couldn't get any free agents to sign there because they made incredibly stupid roster moves and blew their cap room on old, washed up players like Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow, not because it was simply a "small market".

Same thing with Minnesota. They made short sighted moves to surround Garnett with old over-priced vets like Cassell, Sprewell, and Mark Madsen. Then blew the rest on a multi-year deal for Michael Olowakandi. Again, just bad roster management.

Players want to play for winners, but it's not like a guy's going to take a MLE type pay cut to do so. Cleveland sure didn't seem to have a problem coaxing a big name FA this last off-season and convincing Kyrie to re-sign. Why? Because they had Lebron and, this time, cap room.

A good example of a terrible franchise in a small town that just rushed into things because they got over excited is the Pelicans. Got Anthony Davis, knew he'd be a stud... go out and get a bunch of overpaid scrubs.

Bam. That's your Cavs/Timberwolves formula.

We have many similarites with the Pelicans like NEW OWNERS.
New owners in general not because they are stupid or anything but because are inexperienced in running a franchice are almost always impatient and the first good results make them go ahead to hasty moves like overpaying and giving the max to people they shouldn't.
Hope our owners don't make this mistake and max Knight.

[Dimitraa]

Let's not sugar coat things.

No doubt. We played a horrible team.

Kings remind me of those Bucks teams over the past decade that Paschke and Herb thought were good or should be good but really sucked.

*Don't mean to dump on the Kings. Again like the Kings fans and they are my favorite west coast LP team the past decade. But that organization is a dumpster fire.

Then how are they fortunate to get a new arena built with public funds?

I think their mayor is a former bball player whereas in Milwauke is not and from what I understand from reading the arena thread every politician in Milwaukee seems to live in last century or something.

[FlagsFlyForever]

Cleveland couldn't get any free agents to sign there because they made incredibly stupid roster moves and blew their cap room on old, washed up players like Larry Hughes, Ben Wallace, Donyell Marshall, and Eric Snow, not because it was simply a "small market".

Same thing with Minnesota. They made short sighted moves to surround Garnett with old over-priced vets like Cassell, Sprewell, and Mark Madsen. Then blew the rest on a multi-year deal for Michael Olowakandi. Again, just bad roster management.

Players want to play for winners, but it's not like a guy's going to take a MLE type pay cut to do so. Cleveland sure didn't seem to have a problem coaxing a big name FA this last off-season and convincing Kyrie to re-sign. Why? Because they had Lebron and, this time, cap room.

Even with LeBron and cap room, they're still not going to get Kevin Love without trading the top picks in the 2013 and 2014 drafts. When is the last time a top tier free agent chose a small market team? As long as there are maximum salaries in the NBA, it will always put teams like the Bucks at a disadvantage.

[Bucks_MacGyver]

You guys are bumming me out.